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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 7:25:17
I've been so impressed with folks' willingness to be open on this board with subjects such as overdosing. I wondered if anyone here has dealt with alcoholism, as well as bipolar disorder, and if so, if any specific drug(s) has helped? I take Topamax and Celexa. I am feeling better, but still have some problems with heavy drinking. I find it frustrating that I can't talk about it openly with my psych - he suggested AA the one time I mentioned it. I will not go to AA, so that's not even a consideration. I believe the alcoholism is a chemical problem as well, an indication of an addictive personality in general.
Thanks! I am so glad I found this board!
Posted by judy1 on December 7, 2000, at 13:10:35
In reply to bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 7:25:17
Hi,
I am also dually diagnosed (bipolar and substance abuse), however opiates are my choice. My pdoc feels I am self-medicating, and this is extremely common in those with bipolar disorder (60%). He does not feel AA or NA is beneficial, rather optimizing my medication regime will help me get off opiates and then he will give me naltrexone, which I believe is an opiate antagonist. Apparently it also reduces the desire to drink in half his patients. Hope some of this helps- Judy
Posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 14:25:55
In reply to Re: bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by judy1 on December 7, 2000, at 13:10:35
Judy:
Thanks, that does help. Do you mind telling me what medications you are taking for the bipolar disorder?
Posted by judy1 on December 7, 2000, at 16:39:34
In reply to Re: bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 14:25:55
Hi,
I've been on everything and am still unstable which just goes to prove how variable all of this is. Anyway, right now on 150mg Topamax, 6mg klonopin, 2mg risperdal. The ONLY combo that ever worked for any length of time was depakote/lamictal/klonopin/risperdal and then it stopped or maybe I stopped, but now it doesn't work. I can't take antidepressants (I rapid cycle), do you have bipolar2?
Posted by ChrisK on December 7, 2000, at 16:54:51
In reply to bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 7:25:17
I am not bipolar but major depression and alcoholic. I take one of the TCA's (Nortripltyline) and Zyprexa for the depression and obssesions problems but I also take Naltrexone for the alcohol problems. Naltrexone does a good job of eliminating the cravings for alcohol. Although I still drink sometimes, it is out of old habits rather than cravings.
I never responded to AA and wouldn't necessarily condemn it nor reccomend it based on my experience. Naltrexone is a good start. It has had some off-label use as an augmentor for depression meds.
Do a search here at the top of the page for Naltrexone. There have been a few threads here in the last year regaurding it.
Also, make sure that you have a good relationship with you r pdoc before getting deep into your drinking problems. Some will just turn you away because you can't self-medicate with alcohol while trying to work with depression meds. Mine knows that I still have issues but is willing to work with me anyway. I'm not at the level of drinking I was a year ago and I think that the Naltrexone has helped in that area.
Hope this helps,
Chris
> I've been so impressed with folks' willingness to be open on this board with subjects such as overdosing. I wondered if anyone here has dealt with alcoholism, as well as bipolar disorder, and if so, if any specific drug(s) has helped? I take Topamax and Celexa. I am feeling better, but still have some problems with heavy drinking. I find it frustrating that I can't talk about it openly with my psych - he suggested AA the one time I mentioned it. I will not go to AA, so that's not even a consideration. I believe the alcoholism is a chemical problem as well, an indication of an addictive personality in general.
>
> Thanks! I am so glad I found this board!
Posted by S. Howard on December 7, 2000, at 23:10:18
In reply to bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by Kingfish on December 7, 2000, at 7:25:17
Kingfish-
I have a substantial history of both drug and alcohol abuse, but somehow I managed to hold it together for nearly 20 years without medical help.
This year I reached the outer limits of both my
physical and mental health. I was hospitalized twice, once for a suicide attempt and once for seizures after an unintentional overdose. I'm very lucky to be alive.I'm not proud about this stuff. But I've never been able to talk about it before to anyone, and it's such a relief to be so honest in front of so many people and recieve support and advice instead of being burnt at the stake. If you keep up with postings you can learn quite a lot.
Best wishes-
Gracie
Posted by missinglynx on December 10, 2000, at 5:06:45
In reply to Re: bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment? » Kingfish, posted by ChrisK on December 7, 2000, at 16:54:51
> I am not bipolar but major depression and alcoholic. I take one of the TCA's (Nortripltyline) and Zyprexa for the depression and obssesions problems but I also take Naltrexone for the alcohol problems. Naltrexone does a good job of eliminating the cravings for alcohol. Although I still drink sometimes, it is out of old habits rather than cravings.
>
> I never responded to AA and wouldn't necessarily condemn it nor reccomend it based on my experience. Naltrexone is a good start. It has had some off-label use as an augmentor for depression meds.
>
> Do a search here at the top of the page for Naltrexone. There have been a few threads here in the last year regaurding it.
>
> Also, make sure that you have a good relationship with you r pdoc before getting deep into your drinking problems. Some will just turn you away because you can't self-medicate with alcohol while trying to work with depression meds. Mine knows that I still have issues but is willing to work with me anyway. I'm not at the level of drinking I was a year ago and I think that the Naltrexone has helped in that area.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Chris
>
>
> > I've been so impressed with folks' willingness to be open on this board with subjects such as overdosing. I wondered if anyone here has dealt with alcoholism, as well as bipolar disorder, and if so, if any specific drug(s) has helped? I take Topamax and Celexa. I am feeling better, but still have some problems with heavy drinking. I find it frustrating that I can't talk about it openly with my psych - he suggested AA the one time I mentioned it. I will not go to AA, so that's not even a consideration. I believe the alcoholism is a chemical problem as well, an indication of an addictive personality in general.
> >
> > Thanks! I am so glad I found this board!Hey there Chris I know you don't know me. Nobody here does (Its the Internet after all). Great to hear you "licked' the heavy Drinking...Now that something to lift your self esteem.. you always hear its nearly impossible (thats a strong will) I was wondering about the combination of Zyprexa and NOrtryptaline. I'm just starting the Zyprexa myself. How did it come about that you "came" up with that group together. Its rare people use Zyprexa. MDs are caught up in stereotyping patients. They always reach for the pad and write Zoloft... Sorry to pry. I just am violently allergic to Zoloft, Remeron, and Serzone so Im "running out of op[tions" as my MD would say. Hey I think thats unfair. (not his comment the situation) I exercise heavy so theres no reason I should react that way to the usual How did the Nortrytaline effect you? Isnt that combo profoundly sedating or are you thriving on the 2? thanks for listening
Posted by ChrisK on December 10, 2000, at 6:15:21
In reply to Question for ChrisK..., posted by missinglynx on December 10, 2000, at 5:06:45
About 2 years ago I was hospitalized twice in a three month period after failed suicide attempts. While in the psych ward I met my current pdoc and he is very open to off label prescribing if it looks like it is warranted. He had had some success with Z in other patients and thought it would help my obssesive thoughts of death and suicide. The dreaded black cloud lifted within a week. I was still depressed but not always thinking about how much I just wanted to die.
Over the years we have tried quite a few AD's. I really didn't react to any of the SSRI's, Remeron, Effexor, etc.. My father was also depressive and he reacted to amitriptyline so I asked to be put on a TCA. My pdoc suggested Nortriptyline because I had the least chance of using it for an overdose. I've been taking it for about one year now and I'm still on a plateau of mild depression.
Right now we are trying to address my current anhedonia and apathy. Recently I tried Wellburin, Adderall and Ritalin to try to get some stimulation. They have been just so-so although I would say that Ritalin was the best for me. I've also upped my Zyprexa dose to 10mg from 7.5mg and that change helped a little but I'm still searching for that magic something that will get me to a place I would call "normal."
So for now it's Nortrip, Zyprexa and Naltrexone. Once I adjusted to each one (for me about two weeks) I don't feel sedated at all. Last month we talked about the possibility of adding Selegeline, Permax, or Mirapex. We both agreed to put it off until next month so that we could both do a little extra research before trying one. I'll probably start on one of them 1/2/01 or possibly Amisulpride if I can talk him into that one.
Hope all this makes sense to you.
Chris
Posted by Kingfish on December 12, 2000, at 16:41:32
In reply to Re: bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by S. Howard on December 7, 2000, at 23:10:18
Thank you all so much for your help. I've said it before, but this board has been a life saver for me.
I feel so much better knowing there is a drug available to help with cravings. I actually asked my psych about it and he was open to it. I'm going to wait and see how I feel on this current combo.
The idea that I might not have to spend so much time and heartache avoiding alcohol gives me great hope.
The concept that we drink out of habit is an interestin point to me. I always drink on the weekend "out of habit". I will try to break that.
Thank your for your honesty Gracie. Though I've never had such a traumatic experience, I've definitely worn myself down with my self-destructive behavior.
- Kelly
Posted by ChrisK on December 13, 2000, at 5:33:13
In reply to Re: bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug treatment?, posted by Kingfish on December 12, 2000, at 16:41:32
Kelly,
Good Luck with your new trials. I hope you find the relief that you are looking for with a new combination. It really can work.
Chris
This is the end of the thread.
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