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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rogdog on October 12, 2000, at 12:31:15
I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
Posted by Cindy W on October 13, 2000, at 10:04:34
In reply to OCD medications?, posted by rogdog on October 12, 2000, at 12:31:15
> I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
Rogdog, I have OCD and have tried several meds. See the OCF website and article about adult meds by Dr. Jenike (it has an excellent description of the major meds used: Anafranil, Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Celexa, Paxil, Effexor-XR). I take Effexor-XR 375 mg/day, Serzone 75 mg/day, and (now) Seroquel 150 (tried that last night, up from l25 mg/night). Effexor-XR really helped me, with few side effects, but everybody's different. I tried Prozac, Luvox, and Zoloft (had sexual side effects). For OCD, the dosages have to be higher and the med needs to be given a fair trial, at least 12 weeks, from what I've read. Hope something works for you soon!--CIndy W
Posted by salarmy4me on October 14, 2000, at 3:31:58
In reply to Re: OCD medications?, posted by Cindy W on October 13, 2000, at 10:04:34
> > I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
>
> Rogdog, I have OCD and have tried several meds. See the OCF website and article about adult meds by Dr. Jenike (it has an excellent description of the major meds used: Anafranil, Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Celexa, Paxil, Effexor-XR). I take Effexor-XR 375 mg/day, Serzone 75 mg/day, and (now) Seroquel 150 (tried that last night, up from l25 mg/night). Effexor-XR really helped me, with few side effects, but everybody's different. I tried Prozac, Luvox, and Zoloft (had sexual side effects). For OCD, the dosages have to be higher and the med needs to be given a fair trial, at least 12 weeks, from what I've read. Hope something works for you soon!--CIndy WSome ideas would be MAOIs, which treat depression
OCD, and panic. Also, Serzone, Zyprexa (a novel
and Celexa are good.
Posted by JohnL on October 14, 2000, at 5:23:05
In reply to OCD medications?, posted by rogdog on October 12, 2000, at 12:31:15
> I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
I'm not real experienced with OCD, but I can share some of my thoughts.
I think one of the ways OCD is fixed is by anesthetizing the brain, squashing the emotional spectrum. This is a frequent result of elevated serotonin levels over time. Often we see people who are treated for depression with SSRIs where their depression goes away, but they never regain the ups in life either. Very flat. Cocoon-like. That's not uncommon with SSRIs, and I think that's how they work in OCD. However, I don't like this fix, because it's not really a fix. It is a way to anesthetize all emotions, not just the ones you are concerned about.
Your doctor mentioned neuroleptics. I like that option much better. That's because they are much more likely to target just the emotions that are plaguing you. Basically what they do is reduce elevated dopamine function. With SSRIs OCD usually requires large doses...like I said, lots and lots of serotonin to numb everything. But with neuroleptics you are likely to find relief with much smaller doses.
Which one to try is a flip of the coin. One may work where others don't. Statistically the odds are probably better for Zyprexa. But good options could also include Risperdal, Haldol, or Stelazine.
Most doctors I think would go the SSRI route. But that's because they themselves have never tried an SSRI on themselves! They don't realize how numbing they can be to someone who doesn't have low serotonin to begin with. A basically normal undepressed person who takes an SSRI for a few weeks will experience emotional flattening. In one doctors office during a year, neuroleptics worked 65% of the time, while SSRIs worked 27% of the time. Just something to think about.
John
Posted by Cindy W on October 14, 2000, at 22:37:44
In reply to Re: OCD medications?, posted by JohnL on October 14, 2000, at 5:23:05
> > I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
>
> I'm not real experienced with OCD, but I can share some of my thoughts.
>
> I think one of the ways OCD is fixed is by anesthetizing the brain, squashing the emotional spectrum. This is a frequent result of elevated serotonin levels over time. Often we see people who are treated for depression with SSRIs where their depression goes away, but they never regain the ups in life either. Very flat. Cocoon-like. That's not uncommon with SSRIs, and I think that's how they work in OCD. However, I don't like this fix, because it's not really a fix. It is a way to anesthetize all emotions, not just the ones you are concerned about.
>
> Your doctor mentioned neuroleptics. I like that option much better. That's because they are much more likely to target just the emotions that are plaguing you. Basically what they do is reduce elevated dopamine function. With SSRIs OCD usually requires large doses...like I said, lots and lots of serotonin to numb everything. But with neuroleptics you are likely to find relief with much smaller doses.
>
> Which one to try is a flip of the coin. One may work where others don't. Statistically the odds are probably better for Zyprexa. But good options could also include Risperdal, Haldol, or Stelazine.
>
> Most doctors I think would go the SSRI route. But that's because they themselves have never tried an SSRI on themselves! They don't realize how numbing they can be to someone who doesn't have low serotonin to begin with. A basically normal undepressed person who takes an SSRI for a few weeks will experience emotional flattening. In one doctors office during a year, neuroleptics worked 65% of the time, while SSRIs worked 27% of the time. Just something to think about.
> JohnJohn, you mention Zyprexa for OCD...are there any studies comparing Zyprexa vs. an SSRI or Anafranil, or Clozapine vs. an SSRI or Anafranil, for OCD? I've read that they primarily affect serotonin (HT2) so don't understand why they would not give the "emotional flattening" or numbness (which I've experienced with every AD I've ever tried). Also, from what I've read about OCD (having OCD myself also), emotions are not the problem; anxiety which is negatively reinforced by compulsive acts is the problem, or in some cases, a "brain lock" of obsessive thoughts which are overvalued. ??--Cindy W
Posted by Cindy W on October 14, 2000, at 22:39:53
In reply to Re: OCD medications?, posted by salarmy4me on October 14, 2000, at 3:31:58
> > > I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
> >
> > Rogdog, I have OCD and have tried several meds. See the OCF website and article about adult meds by Dr. Jenike (it has an excellent description of the major meds used: Anafranil, Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Celexa, Paxil, Effexor-XR). I take Effexor-XR 375 mg/day, Serzone 75 mg/day, and (now) Seroquel 150 (tried that last night, up from l25 mg/night). Effexor-XR really helped me, with few side effects, but everybody's different. I tried Prozac, Luvox, and Zoloft (had sexual side effects). For OCD, the dosages have to be higher and the med needs to be given a fair trial, at least 12 weeks, from what I've read. Hope something works for you soon!--CIndy W
>
> Some ideas would be MAOIs, which treat depression
> OCD, and panic. Also, Serzone, Zyprexa (a novel
> and Celexa are good.
salarmy4me, I've never read about MAOI's been using to treat OCD. I tried Serzone, which was a really WONDERFUL antidepressant which also decreased my social anxiety but did not impact my OCD one iota. Zyprexa might be worth a try, or maybe something like Clozapine?? But only in cases of intractible OCD, I would imagine. But then I'm no psychiatrist or pharmacologist.
Posted by JohnL on October 15, 2000, at 3:07:04
In reply to Re: OCD medications?, posted by Cindy W on October 14, 2000, at 22:37:44
Cindy,
At www.mentalhealth.com I was browsing around in the research section recently and did stumble onto some clinical research findings on Zyprexa+OCD. I was just browsing and didn't look at them very long. But they are there.As I understand it, one of the several possible causes of OCD symptoms is elevated dopamine function. Zyprexa and APs work to reduce dopamine function. At the same time, they tend to enhance serotonin a little bit, through HT2 antagonism. In reality I think all that really matters is what works. There are statistics that show that drugs that have no clinical justification at all for OCD ended up working completely. Of course, the SSRIs are more common, but I just hate that flattening effect which seems fairly common.
John
Posted by R.Anne on October 16, 2000, at 19:06:05
In reply to OCD medications?, posted by rogdog on October 12, 2000, at 12:31:15
I have severe OCD and 20 mg. paxil works for me once at bedtime. They are finding now that lower doses work, too, for some people. I cannot take the high doses because I get too sedated. I would try the ssri's before the neuroleptics because they are safer for one thing. That is my opinion anyways. I have taken the neuroleptics too and had muscular and joint problems and just felt like I didn't care about much. They decreased my ambition, in other words, even at a low dose. The medicine is not a complete cure and so I read the book called Stop Obsessing: How to Overcome Your Obsessions and Compulsions by Foa and Wilson. There were some tips in there that I found useful. The book also gives us a lot of hope to recover! Good luck.
> I am wondering if there is anyone who has had any luck with medication,for treating ocd symptoms? I have unwanted, disturbing thoughts that i just cant get rid of . my doctor has put me on luvox which has made it worse(more anxiety) he had talked about a neuroleptic? but i dont know how safe they are. I am still waiting for a reply from a doctor about some amisulpiride. any help or suggestions would be great! rog
This is the end of the thread.
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