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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tori on October 6, 2000, at 12:45:47
(I originally posted this to alt.support.dep.medication but am going to drop that NG - find this board more helpful)
Anybody else see this?
There was a report last night on CTV or CBC, can't remember which one, that
reported a legitimate scientific study that found 'major success' in the
treatment of bipolar affective disorder by using certain minerals/vitamins
.... the patients interviewed had a remarkable response rate - but they
didn't say what pills they were!! d'oh! I had my friggin pen and paper
ready! It seems, if I can remember correctly, that it's now being funded
and assisted by the CDN government for further research. I pray they find
the solution .........Sorry, but Canada kicks ass!!!!!!!!
Two weeks on Parnate, doing pretty darn good at 20 mg. Actually slept 8
hours last night, only woke up once, and only had to take 30 mg restoril as
opposed to 90 sometimes at night plus 4 mg clonazepam just to get to sleep.
No suicidal thoughts after three days on it; bit more energy but nothing
significant *sigh* but have definitely noticed an increased interest in life
again.Former chronic nightmares about my mom's death have ceased (she died three
years ago on 11/25 from pancreatic cancer at the age of 40, I was 23 -
gruesome nightmares that I guess would classify as PTSD as I didn't react
emotionally at the time of her illness, only after she died, and only in my
dreams where I would respond in terror to the real events that happened to
her....).Returned to work on Monday after 4 days on it (remarkable); cognitive
functions seem to be improving; I'm not forgetting names or words anymore;
computer technical skills are back up and running (cool).Can't wait for my man to come home from his hunting trip on Sunday and
lavish him with affection to see if the "side effects" of celexa and
wellbutrin are gone!!! (Don't come 'a knocking if this trailer's a
rockin'........ )I just hope this lasts ......
Posted by dj on October 6, 2000, at 13:09:27
In reply to CTV report about breakthrough in bipolar treatment, posted by Tori on October 6, 2000, at 12:45:47
> Anybody else see this?
>
< delteted >
> .... the patients interviewed had a remarkable response rate - but they
> didn't say what pills they were!! d'ohI imagine the following is what you are referring to... Pretty small sample size and sounds pretty hypey(as does their web-site).... as I'm sure CamW. and others will attest...though it would be great if it was this simple...
October 5, 2000
National PostPill that calms pigs may help humans
E.M.Power being tested: One desperate father gave it to his manic depressive children with great success
Brad Evenson
National Post
A drug used to calm pigs is being tested on humans after a distressed father in Alberta used it on his two children, fearing that their depression would lead them to commit suicide like their mother.Five years ago, Anthony Stephan, whose wife had recently committed suicide, told his friend, David Hardy, about his fears for his son and daughter -- both of whom had been diagnosed with manic depression.
Mr. Hardy, who sold livestock products, told Mr. Stephan it sounded as though the children suffered from a nervous disorder exhibited by some barnyard hogs, called ear-and-tail biting syndrome.
"I was just in a state of despair," said Mr. Stephan, who was desperate to help his children, then 15 and 24.
"I'd lost my wife, I was losing my kids. My whole family was just disintegrating right before my eyes."
The friend explained to him that pigs "become hyper-irritable, hyperactive, and they'll actually kill one another, or tear off an ear or a tail, if it doesn't stop."
Pork farmers cure the disorder with a nutritional pill.
Mr. Stephan fed his children the hog pills and, amazingly, they worked where pharmaceutical drugs had failed miserably.
The improvement in Mr. Stephan's children was so remarkable, a psychiatrist encouraged him to help others.
After treating 100 volunteer patients, Mr. Stephan approached scientists at the University of Calgary, who began testing the pill -- now known as E.M.Power -- in 10 male patients with bipolar disorder, commonly known as manic depression.
At six months, the patients had improved dramatically.
"I was skeptical at the outset of this study," said Dr. Bonnie Kaplan, the principal investigator who presented her findings last night at the Canadian Psychiatric Association's annual meeting in Victoria.
"However, the results are quite striking."
In most cases, the supplement has entirely replaced psychoactive drugs and the patients have remained well, Dr. Kaplan said.
"I had been unable to find any medication or combination of medications that would [allow] me to function at the level that I was at before," said Steve Morton, 32, of Calgary. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1997. "And when I started taking the [E.M.Power], it was like a light switch going on."
After years of suffering, Mr. Morton, who works for a kitchen supply company, was prepared to try anything, even hog pills.
"I had been on so many other medications ... that I said, 'What have I got to lose?' " he said.
"If I feel like running around and flopping in a big mud patch once in a while, I suppose that's one of the things I have to put up with."
Bipolar disorder affects as many as 500,000 Canadians. It has a strong genetic component, which may explain why Mr. Stephan's wife and children suffered the illness.
Psychoactive drugs, particularly lithium, can help lessen the radical mood swings, but the drugs can cause a litany of side effects, including tremors, diarrhea, headaches, seizures and abnormal heart rhythms.
Since the nutritional pill has few side effects, researchers are excited by its possibilities.
Mr. Stephan and Mr. Hardy, have since formed a company, Synergy Group of Canada Inc., to research and market the pills, which contain 36 ingredients: 34 natural vitamins and minerals and two anti-oxidants.
Several large U.S. firms have supplied research products, and earlier this year, the Alberta Science and Research Authority put up more than $500,000 to fund a larger, more rigorous clinical trial.
"We hope eventually that we can make some royalties off of this so that we can build what we call Synergy Houses" to provide free housing and nutrition for schizophrenics, Mr. Stephan said. However, he said the company also gives its recipe away for free: "We want to help as many people as we can."
Despite the positive early results, the University of Calgary researchers urge caution about the drug, as they do not yet have long-term data.
Posted by Peg on October 10, 2000, at 0:20:01
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans - CamW..., posted by dj on October 6, 2000, at 13:09:27
Excuse me? My father was the largest hog raiser in Texas and I have never heard of such nonsense.
We never had hyperactive pigs. Give me a break.
Peg
Posted by Tori on October 12, 2000, at 1:42:09
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans - CamW..., posted by Peg on October 10, 2000, at 0:20:01
> Excuse me? My father was the largest hog raiser in Texas and I have never heard of such nonsense.
> We never had hyperactive pigs. Give me a break.
> PegIn all honestly I really wouldn't call it nonsense; at least if it is being funded by the Province of Alberta than there's at least hope that they may find something beneficial, and knowing how tight Ralph Klein is (he's the Premier for all you Americans out there) that in itself is remarkable. I'm as skeptical as anybody else what with the horrors I have been through with this illness and medications I have been on (went hypertensive today for the first time with Parnate), despise all the 'herbal pushers' out there with cures for everything under the sun, but at least somebody is working on it, somebody cares enough as it's happened to them personally, his wife committed suicide and his children have bipolar affective disorder as well. I just hope it turns into something, that's all. At least I have that feeling of 'hope' for the future again that I hadn't had three weeks before.
Best wishes, Tori. :-)
Posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 11:37:45
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans - CamW..., posted by Peg on October 10, 2000, at 0:20:01
My husband, also a hog farmer (and hog farmer's son) wants me to ask you if your father's operation was a finishing operation in close confinement. Overcrowding is the key. It's well documented that too many animals in too small a space results in behavior worsening.
I'm an e.m.power guinea pig, by the way, in the fourth week - so far, so good. I was maxed out on antidepressants (have tried 9 different drugs over the past 9 years or so; at the beginning of February was on 140mg Prozac & 450mg Wellbutrin, along with prempro & synthroid, daily). Was beginning to have tremors and couldn't remember past the start of a sentence. And other bad stuff.
I'll tell ya, just the thought of being able to get myself back has greatly improved things!
(As you may guess, my psychiatrist was not excited about my plan, but neither would she take a look at the information, either. I figure I don't have much to lose - at 51 I'd like to have a life again.)
While I have no idea if this will actually work, keep in mind that some of the most important discoveries have been very simple ones.
Deb_s
Posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 13:01:09
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans - CamW..., posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 11:37:45
> I'm an e.m.power guinea pig, by the way, in the >fourth week - so far, so good
Keep us posted on how it goes for you, svp!!
You might want to e-mail your query directly to Peg as I note she didn't respond to the follow-up to her comment and I can't recall having seen other posts from her. I've gotta say that I found the e.m.power site pretty off the wall, but who knows...
I am curious if CamW has ever encountered anyone expermenting with it, as it is Alberta-based, as is he...
dj
Posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 14:39:50
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans » Deb_s, posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 13:01:09
I'll be sure to check back in at some point. My overall plan is six months to get off all meds & see how things are coming along. Also exercising & other good stuff for health.
I recommend music as one of the best therapies (doing it or listening to it - i presently sing in a choral ensemble & am learning Taiko drumming).
Posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2001, at 15:17:24
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans » Deb_s, posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 13:01:09
deej - Ya, I know about that study. The head psychiatrist at Mental Health has talked to me about it (I believe the head researcher was a classmate of his).
I thought it was some megavitamin-type treatment with a twist. The head pdoc says his buddy says that it works, but we both want to see the double blind results. Our pdoc says that the reseacher has a credible reputation and that he respects him.
When you think of vitamin treatments, you tend to think of deficiency states. More of a vitamin than your body needs really doesn't do anything (except make you pee fluorescent yellow with the water soluble B-complex & C ones). Vitamins have been tried before in all kinds of mental disorders without any really convincing results; although I don't know what the "twist" is in this case.
It's a wait a see thing. I'll let you know if I here anything. Media reports of unreleased and unproven research are annoying (remember the comet on a crash course with the earth; or cold fusion).
BTW - I am having lunch with the head pdoc on Thursday, I'll ask him if he has heard any preliminary results.
Take it easy, shaky (BTW - that was the ground, not you) - Cam
Posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 15:27:07
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans » dj, posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 14:39:50
> I'll be sure to check back in at some point. My overall plan is six months to get off all meds & see how things are coming along. Also >exercising & other good stuff for health.
I hope it works out for you. I have to admit I'm skeptical when I glance at some of their 'case studies' on line and see them having folks jump from one extreme to the other. Seems a bit too good to be true, particularly when they claim to deal with multiple dis-eases...
http://www.truehope.com/depression/depr2.htm
http://www.agt.net/public/synergy/university_studies/uofcabstract.htm
Hopefully, for your sake, it's not just hype. In the article I quoted below I just noted that they claim they will provide others with the formula if asked, so I've sent them an e-mail out of curiosity and look forward to seeing if and how they respond or don't.
dj
Posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 16:00:56
In reply to Re: U of Calgary study » dj, posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2001, at 15:17:24
> BTW - I am having lunch with the head pdoc on Thursday, I'll ask him if he has heard any preliminary results.
>
> Take it easy, shaky (BTW - that was the ground, >not you) -Cam,
The earthquake was the most exciting thing that happened to me all week. And it was very calming and fascinating, wondering why it was taking some BIG truck sooooo lonnnnngggg to goooo byyyyyyy... Time to get a life...
BTW, if the 'Synergy' folks send me the formula I'll be posting it. Does sound like a multi-vitamin and a lot of hype though... it would be great if it was so simple!!!
dj - no longer shaking all over...
Posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 17:39:12
In reply to Re: U of Calgary study » dj, posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2001, at 15:17:24
Cam W.,
>Vitamins have been tried before in all kinds of mental disorders without any really convincing results; although I don't know what the "twist" is in this case.
there are two things i understand that this pig pill does (i may not be understanding it correctly, but i don't care, if it works!):the theory is that the depressed brain (or other central nervous system disorder) does not have the ingredients it needs to do its work, so if you give it what it needs (and it's apparently the broad COMBINATION, not just a few things) it can correct itself and function as it should.
the other theory is that the essential ingredients have become depleted from the soil through farming, and they don't all get replaced. (i think it likely that we don't even know what all the "essential" things are). that may explain why depression (etc.) seems to have become worse over the last century.
[btw, I'm NOT a vitamin freak, although i've been trying to learn about it. i just don't believe that mega of any one or a few vitamins/minerals can make a big difference in everybody.
i can believe, however, that people are different in how they metabolize food, and that some people might need more of some things, especially in times of stress (which could, for example, explain why hard times sometimes supposedly "trigger" clinical depression - maybe a system which is marginal becomes disfunctional when the needs are increased).]
>
> It's a wait a see thing. I'll let you know if I here anything. Media reports of unreleased and unproven research are annoying (remember the comet on a crash course with the earth; or cold fusion).they are indeed! i think what has me optimistic about this is that my husband and father-in-law are pig farmers, and know well the consequences of crowding pigs, and that nutrition can make huge differences. it makes sense to them.
a limitation of our traditional research approach is we start with a theory of one thing or another, then test just that one thing scientifically. while this approach has validity, the universe is made up of an incredible number of things, interacting with each other in all sorts of ways. it would take forever to test all combinations of all drugs/nutrients/elements in all types of humans against all types of diseases/disorders.
>
> BTW - I am having lunch with the head pdoc on Thursday, I'll ask him if he has heard any preliminary results.I have heard that Harvard is currently conducting a double-blind study - does the head pdoc perhaps know anything about it?
Posted by dj on March 5, 2001, at 11:23:10
In reply to Re: U of Calgary study , posted by Deb_s on March 4, 2001, at 17:39:12
> >Vitamins have been tried before in all kinds of mental disorders without any really convincing results; although I don't know what the "twist" >is in this case.
Initial response to my query for the formula:
"Thanks for your inquiry. The formula is on the website. a couple of small
problems here. The compound or Chelate used to bind the minerals and
vitamins which is what allows the supplement to be so well absorbed into the
human body, is patented. Harvard medical school tried to duplicate our
formula with some of the most expensive pharmaceutical machinery. The
supplement they created only did approx 30% of what our did. Its near
impossible to replicate the formula in its truest form which we now use. The
cost to develop such a formulation..... Approx $500,000 US. If you need any
other info, please feel free to contact me. Thanks again and good Luck.--------------------------------------------------
Sincerely,
Daniel Stephan
Regional Director - Central/Western CanadaHead Office - Truehope Support Center
The Synergy Group Of Canada Inc.Phone # 1 - 866 - 222 - 2282
International # 1 (403) 394 - 7620
Fax # (403) 320 - 7190
Email - dan@truehope.com
Web Site - www.truehope.com--------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: < delete >
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 2:12 PM
To: support@truehope.tv
Subject: Query about formula?
In the October 5, 2000 National Post article: "Pill that calms pigs may help
humans" the following is quoted: "We hope eventually that we can make some
royalties off of this so that we can build what we call Synergy Houses" to
provide free housing and nutrition for schizophrenics, Mr. Stephan said.
However, he said the company also gives its recipe away for free: "We want
to help as many people as we can."I'd appreciate it if you'd sent me a copy of the recipe/formla for
E.M.Power.Thanks,"
I've replied requesting the url for the page with the formula and will post that when I receive it...
Any informed comments on the commentary about the chelate, would be appreciated.
Sante!
dj
Posted by dj on March 5, 2001, at 15:43:10
In reply to Re: The twist - go figure..., posted by dj on March 5, 2001, at 11:23:10
NUTRIENT UNITS AMOUNT
Vitamin A I.U. 3333
Vita B1 Mg.5
Vita B2 Mg. 5.5
Vita B3 - Niacin Mg. 25
Vita B6 Mg. 7
Vita B12 Mcg.250
Vitamin C Mg.250
Vitamin D3 I.U.400
Vita E I.U.100
Vita B5 Mg. 6
Folate Mcg. 400
Biotin Mcg. 25
Calcium Mg. 550
Phosphorous Mg. 350
Magnesium Mg. 250
Copper Mg. 3
Iodine Mg. 0.075
Potassium Mg. 100
Molybdenum Mg. 0.06655
Zinc Mg. 20
Chromium Mg. 0.24995
Iron Mg. 6
Manganese Mg. 4
Selenium Mg. 0.09995
Silicon Mg. 10
PROPRIETARY CNS BLEND
Nickel
Vanadium
Boron
Germanium
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Bioflavenoids
Grape Seed Extract
Inositol
Ginko Biloba
Glutamine
Choline
from: http://www.truehope.com/misc%20files/ingredients_list.htm
Posted by Janice1 on March 6, 2001, at 18:35:19
In reply to Re: The ingrediants..., posted by dj on March 5, 2001, at 15:43:10
Sure, I'd take em, if they helped. dj, if I'm not around PB and you remember, could you keep me updated on this. You know, I used to work right by an office in Calgary with the name Synergy on it. I wonder if it was their office?
Hope you're well, (and you too Cam!)
Janice
Posted by cole on March 7, 2001, at 1:39:29
In reply to pig pills???, posted by Janice1 on March 6, 2001, at 18:35:19
I'm also interested in this treatment. I got in touch with the Synergy folks and downloaded the ingredient list a few months ago, but I can't reconcile ditching an effective treatment (Remeron) at a time when my mental health is vital to my success. If anyone has success with this, please post. I am willing to give this a shot in a year or so when school has settled down.
Cole
Posted by Deb_s on March 7, 2001, at 10:06:15
In reply to I'm Interested!, posted by cole on March 7, 2001, at 1:39:29
> I can't reconcile ditching an effective treatment (Remeron) at a time when my mental health is vital to my success.
i know what you mean! i started on the "pig pill" program about a month ago (so far, so good!) but i had strong reasons to try it now:
1. my meds were maxed out and my only remaining option looked like ECT (which, I learned, requires hospitalization and must be repeated about once a month forever!!)
2. i'm working at home writing a book, my teenage son (who's ADHD and is also taking the supplement, at least when we can get him to) is old enough to be pretty much on his own. my husband, who also works with me at home, is extremely supportive. and i don't have any major commitments in the next six months which require my brain (except writing!).
3. i feel i've lost so much of myself that there is not a big risk here.
i'm anxious for more "official" testing of this program; i know that "anecdotal" responses are not good evidence. in the meantime, though, i'll keep in touch with this site and let you know how it's going.
Posted by Janice1 on March 7, 2001, at 19:12:04
In reply to Re: I'm Interested!, posted by Deb_s on March 7, 2001, at 10:06:15
anybody know, just out of curiousity.
thanks, Janice
Posted by Deb_s on March 7, 2001, at 19:50:58
In reply to how much are these pig pills?, posted by Janice1 on March 7, 2001, at 19:12:04
they cost about $120 per month initially (first 6 months or so), then about $60/month for maintenance. info is available at www.truehope.com.
Posted by cole on March 8, 2001, at 10:05:28
In reply to Re: I'm Interested!, posted by Deb_s on March 7, 2001, at 10:06:15
Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it if you would periodically check back and post about how you are doing. I will try to check the board once a week or so. I really hope this will work out for you!!
:)
Cole
Posted by Deb_s on March 8, 2001, at 10:11:06
In reply to Re: I'm Interested! » Deb_s, posted by cole on March 8, 2001, at 10:05:28
> Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it if you would periodically check back and post about how you are doing. I will try to check the board once a week or so. I really hope this will work out for you!!
i will - and thank you, i really hope so, too, because i've put all my marbles on it! (and i can't afford to lose any more marbles!)
Posted by Bradley on March 8, 2001, at 15:14:50
In reply to Re: I'm Interested!, posted by Deb_s on March 8, 2001, at 10:11:06
Maybe its a crazy idea, but I'll ask anyway. Is it effective treatment to eat chops from treated pigs? Just wondering.
> > Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it if you would periodically check back and post about how you are doing. I will try to check the board once a week or so. I really hope this will work out for you!!
>
> i will - and thank you, i really hope so, too, because i've put all my marbles on it! (and i can't afford to lose any more marbles!)
Posted by Deb_s on May 16, 2001, at 16:56:17
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans » Deb_s, posted by dj on March 4, 2001, at 15:27:07
just an update from the guinea pig ...
things were going really quite well with the "pig pills" - was (and still am) off of all antidepressants (was on 450mg Wellbutrin & 140mg Prozac as of 1 Jan 2001).
was feeling murky a couple of weeks ago & decided to eliminate the last two meds i was on - Synthroid 0.025mg/day and PremPro. got a bit nervous a week or so later & went back on, then started getting symptoms of too much thyroid - now back off again.
am having a really crummy week, but don't know what's causing it.
so the verdict is still out.
Posted by cole on May 20, 2001, at 23:36:13
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans , posted by Deb_s on May 16, 2001, at 16:56:17
Thanks for taking the time to let us know how it is going, I'd be interested to hear how it goes over the next few months as well. . . January to now is a pretty good stretch though. I wish I could stay on an even keel for that long, even on my AD!! I hope you feel better, let us know how it goes :)
cole> just an update from the guinea pig ...
>
> things were going really quite well with the "pig pills" - was (and still am) off of all antidepressants (was on 450mg Wellbutrin & 140mg Prozac as of 1 Jan 2001).
>
> was feeling murky a couple of weeks ago & decided to eliminate the last two meds i was on - Synthroid 0.025mg/day and PremPro. got a bit nervous a week or so later & went back on, then started getting symptoms of too much thyroid - now back off again.
>
> am having a really crummy week, but don't know what's causing it.
>
> so the verdict is still out.
Posted by Truth is hard to find on May 31, 2001, at 1:01:54
In reply to Re: The twist - go figure..., posted by dj on March 5, 2001, at 11:23:10
re:
> Harvard medical school tried to duplicate our formula with some of the most expensive
> pharmaceutical machinery. The supplement they created only did approx 30% of what our did.
> Its near impossible to replicate the formula in its truest form which we now use...
> If you need any other info, please feel free to contact me. Thanks again and good Luck.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sincerely,
> Daniel Stephan
> Regional Director - Central/Western Canada
.......................................................................................................................................please see my comments on this web site at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010530/msgs/64829.html
In brief, according to a Truehope re I spoke with at a presentation of theirs, this comment is in reference to 1 trial by 1 doctor on 1 patient.
The doctor's name, according to the Truhope rep, is "confidential"!I have attempted to contact Daniel Stephan several times regarding claims he has made about university double-blind studies of their nutritional supplement, but he has not replied.
Please feel free to contact me if you have comments/questions
antiscam10@yahoo.com
Posted by Deb_s on May 31, 2001, at 11:21:34
In reply to Re: Pill that calms pigs may help humans , posted by Deb_s on May 16, 2001, at 16:56:17
I thought I posted this on May 21, but couldn't find it on this thread, so I'm posting it again today ...
More update -
am still entirely off all meds, including Synthroid & PremPro. am MUCH better than last week - have regained stability, strength, and most importantly, sense of humor!i like that TV commercial that has people saying, "I went to the grocery today ... " "I walked upstairs ... " "I played with my grandchildren." simple things.
that's how i've been measuring progress. my previous status (for several years) - on a typical day, I had to take a nap, every activity was a burden, and "unnecessary" tasks never got attempted (like putting socks away, or something).
now on most days i don't need a nap, I've done vacuuming, gardening, tackled some clearing out jobs, started working on the book i'm supposed to be working on, doing things i enjoy again (and actually enjoying them!) and most importantly, becoming brave enough to try.
with all this comes an emotional shakeup, of course, so each day i just ask myself to only get through that day, and try not to worry about the next one.
all best wishes to all of you! keep having faith that there's a better tomorrow.
deb
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