![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
Could someone explain or at least point me in the way
of information detailing why when we (I ) are depressed we
seem to drop IQ?Is this just me, or what?
I am bipolar II (lovely atypical depression)and when I get depressed it is almost like
I want to hibernate. I sleep more, I eat more, and EVERYTHING
slows down. I quess I just don't understand the thought process of it.I know, DUHH
what else can I say?
Posted by mark on August 3, 2000, at 15:53:48
In reply to Depression and IQ loss, posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and depression. Not sure which I had first or
if one precipitated the other. Most of the physical tiredness is gone from the
CFS, but in it's wake it's left me pretty brain-dead. I seriously feel like I'm
in a fog all the time. My analogy is being awakened from a deep, deep sleep and how
you feel at first. My doc thinks the depression is keeping my brain all fogged up
and I've tried a bunch (Pamelor, Celexa, Prozac, Wellbutrin) of different meds to no
avail. I went on Effexor XR a few weeks ago and have "fits of clarity" where I didn't have that
too often before.You say you don't understand the thought process. I personally don't think it's an
active thought process, but more of a reactive thought process. I don't really
understand all the chemical processes involved, but I think when the serotonin or
norepinepherin(sp?) in the brain isn't being utilized correctly it sets up the
depressive state and we react to that. Sort of like when my parents told me I
was a piece of crap for all those years. My brain locked on "you are crap" and
I reacted to it. It's like my depression is in control and I react to how it makes
me feel. Like laying around on the couch is natural now and I have to actively make
myself get up and do something.I hope this makes some sense. I'm not thinking very clearly today. :-)
Posted by jzp on August 3, 2000, at 16:59:31
In reply to Depression and IQ loss, posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
Hi, tdaneen,
> Is this just me, or what?
It is sooooooo not just you.
> I am bipolar II (lovely atypical depression)and when I get depressed it is almost like
> I want to hibernate. I sleep more, I eat more, and EVERYTHING
> slows down. I quess I just don't understand the thought process of it.I also am bipolar II with the glorious atypical depression, and I can completely relate to the feeling of total brain shut-down. It is so frustrating. My most recent and terrible depressive episode started soon after I began my first year of graduate school in Japanese literature. It was excruciating-- it was like huge parts of my knowledge were inaccessible to me.
My best guess is that it is something like hibernation. Does your bipolar have any kind of seasonal component? While mine is not strictly SAD, my depressions invariably start in about November (though they have been known to continue through the summer months). So for me, it really is some kind of hibernation.
I don't have any scientific insight on this, but would be interested to hear the medical explanation.
Take care,
Jannette
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2000, at 21:57:22
In reply to Depression and IQ loss, posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
> Could someone explain or at least point me in the way
> of information detailing why when we (I ) are depressed we
> seem to drop IQ?
>James here....
IQ really measures ability to learn and process. Brain fog
from depression slows and muddies thinking and processing.James
Posted by kazoo on August 4, 2000, at 2:26:05
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by stjames on August 3, 2000, at 21:57:22
> > Could someone explain or at least point me in the way
> > of information detailing why when we (I ) are depressed we
> > seem to drop IQ?
> >
>
> James here....
>
> IQ really measures ability to learn and process. Brain fog
> from depression slows and muddies thinking and processing.
>
> James^^^^^^^^^^
Greetings to James:So, if this were a syllogism, what would the conclusion be?
And would it support a Q.E.D.?kazoo, esq.
Posted by Jennifer on August 4, 2000, at 5:22:16
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by stjames on August 3, 2000, at 21:57:22
OK, I'm in a totally silly mood and am probably going to ruin this thread (sorry). But I LOL with the brain fog thing. We watched "Joe versus the Volcano" today...and if you haven't ever seen it, you have to. It's an fairly old movie with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. In the movie, he's depressed and is diagnosed with a "brain cloud". It's terminal. I'm sure most of you have seen it, but I'll spare the rest incase you haven't.
As far as the brain fog...my feeling is that since the chemicals are out of whack in your brain; and your brain is the central control of your body, it's kind of like having too little RAM on your high speed computer. Even though the capability is there, it's too busy using whatever is available to maintain homeostasis throughout the body, and some sense of stability in itself at the same time. It doesn't have the time to concurrently look for things you are "thinking" about. It's too busy. I know whenever I lose total thought of what I was thinking I just say my brain is rebooting!
Now...since you do develop additional neural pathways each time you learn something new...and this is why those who continually exercise their brain do better after strokes....maybe reading and learning new things will help to give you more "RAM", and help unveil that IQ you have hiding in there. I'm sure it will take time. The less you use it, the more you lose it...and vice versa. Proof positive is that I used to be fairly fluent in spanish, and now I can only say "Hola, coma esta?" "Tiene dolor?" "Esta embarazada?" "Yo soy enfermera" and "Punga sus manos en la cabeza" (Hi, how are you?...Are you in pain?...Are you pregnant...I'm a nurse....and... Put your hands on your head!(always important during a robbery!) Next thing you know I'll ask someone if they're pregnant, have them put their hands on their head, and tell them they're about to be in pain!
Have fun! Jen
> > Could someone explain or at least point me in the way
> > of information detailing why when we (I ) are depressed we
> > seem to drop IQ?
> >
>
> James here....
>
> IQ really measures ability to learn and process. Brain fog
> from depression slows and muddies thinking and processing.
>
> James
Posted by tina on August 4, 2000, at 8:48:52
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss » tdaneen, posted by jzp on August 3, 2000, at 16:59:31
Hey tdaneen: A few weeks back I started a thread entitiled "Does depression make you stupid" and I got some great responses. You might want to check the archives and go through them. I know how you feel when you just cant seem to access all the information that you know is in your head. It's a real pain in the ass. Things I used to know how to do with no problem at all feel like trying to decode Fermat's theorem now. Sometimes I feel so slow, behind everyone else by one step and I just can't catch up.
Oh well, just my humble opinion. It's a "side effect" of being in a depression. Thought precesses got all screwy or they just don't work at all. It goes away eventually but I don't know when. My lack of mental sharpness is still hanging around. Could be the meds too affecting my "smarts" Don;t know.
Just hang in there bud. You aren't losing IQ, just misplaced the tools to use it that's all. You'll get 'em back.
Love
Tina
Posted by LouieG on August 4, 2000, at 9:02:59
In reply to Depression and IQ loss, posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
Hi, first of all, are you taking any antidepressants? My name is Louie, I'm a medical student on my second year and I was diagnosed with depression about 2 yearst ago. I really didn't feel that my depression itself caused any IQ drop, however, after my doctor started prescribing antidepressants (I've tried about 10 or so) I found out that now that I've been taking all kinds of antidepressants I have to study twice as hard for my medical exams and I don't seem to retain as much information as I used to. I told this to my Dr and he jokingly said "well, what good is an IQ of 200 if you can't function because of your depression? Wouldn't you rather feel great with a lower IQ?" So I guess you must make a decision about what you feel is best for you. Personally I don't mind studying twice as hard for my exams just as long as I feel happy and satisfied with my life. Louie
Posted by ksvt on August 4, 2000, at 22:18:06
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by LouieG on August 4, 2000, at 9:02:59
> Hi, first of all, are you taking any antidepressants? My name is Louie, I'm a medical student on my second year and I was diagnosed with depression about 2 yearst ago. I really didn't feel that my depression itself caused any IQ drop, however, after my doctor started prescribing antidepressants (I've tried about 10 or so) I found out that now that I've been taking all kinds of antidepressants I have to study twice as hard for my medical exams and I don't seem to retain as much information as I used to. I told this to my Dr and he jokingly said "well, what good is an IQ of 200 if you can't function because of your depression? Wouldn't you rather feel great with a lower IQ?" So I guess you must make a decision about what you feel is best for you. Personally I don't mind studying twice as hard for my exams just as long as I feel happy and satisfied with my life. Louie
Louie - I don't think it's necessarily the ADs because, for me anyway, and foggy state isn't always there. I also have been able to avoid the inclination to hibernate. There are times, however, when I feel that I do not make connections as easily or as quickly and that I forget things so much more readily. Alot of it is my level of distraction. ksvt
Posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 7:58:33
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by kazoo on August 4, 2000, at 2:26:05
> > > Could someone explain or at least point me in the way
> > > of information detailing why when we (I ) are depressed we
> > > seem to drop IQ?
> > >
> >
> > James here....
> >
> > IQ really measures ability to learn and process. Brain fog
> > from depression slows and muddies thinking and processing.
> >
> > James
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> Greetings to James:
>
> So, if this were a syllogism, what would the conclusion be?-----------------------
My view: A drop in "functional" I.Q.
> And would it support a Q.E.D.?
What is a Q.E.D.?
- Scott, N.D.>
> kazoo, esq.
Posted by Cam W. on August 5, 2000, at 8:32:30
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss » kazoo, posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 7:58:33
> What is a Q.E.D.?
>
Scott - Q.E.D. - quod erat demonstrandum. (which was to be proven) - Cam
Posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 9:27:13
In reply to Brian fog or Brain cloud?, posted by Jennifer on August 4, 2000, at 5:22:16
Hi Jennifer.
Just a few more cents of nonsense...
> As far as the brain fog...my feeling is that since the chemicals are out of whack in your brain; and your brain is the central control of your body, it's kind of like having too little RAM on your high speed computer.
This makes some sense to me.
In 1992, I was a research patient at the National Institutes of Health (NIH). P.E.T. scan brain imaging (Positron Emission Tomography) was relatively new. I was privileged to have my picture taken. Unfortunately, I was not very photogenic. The results of the images were portrayed as a sort of weather map displaying temperatures. The colors red and orange represented areas of great brain activity, while blue represented areas of inactivity. My cerebral cortex was almost entirely blue. In severe depression, it seems that there is a rather global shut-down of higher brain function. Less RAM I guess. (The occipital lobes containing the visual cortex are almost always lit-up due to relatively continual visual activity).
The RAM analogy may run into problems as it represents a static number of specific registers available or affected. I think that brain activity remains dynamic in that specific areas may become less suppressed and more suppressed over time. Regions of activity and inactivity may shift. Perhaps this is why someone can remember easily those things that they were unable to remember the hour before.
> Even though the capability is there, it's too busy using whatever is available to maintain homeostasis throughout the body, and some sense of stability in itself at the same time. It doesn't have the time to concurrently look for things you are "thinking" about. It's too busy.
My guess is that there is not so much a competition or apportionment of function between different pathways in the brain as there is simply a change or lack of function in specific areas.
> I know whenever I lose total thought of what I was thinking I just say my brain is rebooting!
I think rebooting my brain would solve my problem. Let it reset and initiate function in its originally designed default mode. Perhaps, without having to go through a childhood of chronic psychosocial stress, things will remain nominal.
> Now...since you do develop additional neural pathways each time you learn something new...and this is why those who continually exercise their brain do better after strokes....maybe reading and learning new things will help to give you more "RAM", and help unveil that IQ you have hiding in there.
I think that some gains can be made, but they would remain relative to the limitations exacted by the impairments present.
Opinion:One can think of the impairment of learning produced by depression as being analogous to a relative lack of road-building equipment and/or the fuel to run them. By contrast, a stroke might be more analogous to the destruction or barricading of specific roadways. A stroke victim can build new roadways or perhaps repair the old ones using his healthy road-building crews. The depressed brain is slow or perhaps unable to build new roads because the equipment is damaged and may not have the fuel to run it. In both scenarios, I imagine exercising the brain can help. But in the case of endogenous depression, its associated dementias probably remain relatively constant as there is simply not enough energy being supplied to run the message transportation system. Existing roads remain infrequently traveled. New roads are slow to build.
> I'm sure it will take time. The less you use it, the more you lose it...and vice versa. Proof positive is that I used to be fairly fluent in spanish, and now I can only say "Hola, coma esta?" "Tiene dolor?" "Esta embarazada?" "Yo soy enfermera" and "Punga sus manos en la cabeza" (Hi, how are you?...Are you in pain?...Are you pregnant...I'm a nurse....and... Put your hands on your head!(always important during a robbery!) Next thing you know I'll ask someone if they're pregnant, have them put their hands on their head, and tell them they're about to be in pain!
Doesn't this happen sometimes?
You would be amazed to see how much my Spanish improves as my depression improves. I thought my loss of fluency was due to my lack of usage over the past 20 years. Of course, I have lost some. However, much of it returns startlingly when I experience even an hour of improvement of my depressed state. Amazing. Tragic.
> Have fun! Jen
I always try. Que tú te disfrutes también.
- Scott
Posted by dj on August 5, 2000, at 12:32:46
In reply to Depression and IQ loss - Brian fog or Brain cloud?, posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 9:27:13
> Opinion:
>
> One can think of the impairment of learning produced by depression as being analogous to a relative lack of road-building equipment and/or >the fuel to run them.
... The depressed brain is slow or perhaps unable to build new roads because the equipment is damaged and may not have the fuel to run it... >there is simply not enough energy being suppliedIf the issue is one of energy supplies and they are taxed by the stressors on one's equipment than perhaps one needs to fine-tune and reinforce the equipment so it will make better use of what fuel it has, which is perhaps being taxed by system overload due to the stystem being out of balance ie. - stressed to the point of distress and depression.
Whether or not one is using ADs, which can relieve some source of stress and create others in my view based on my experience and readings, it makes sense to use as many methods as possible to counteract the stressors at the biological and systemic level. For instance, I noted that when I was feeling particularly stressed earlier this week a session of yoga with a very good instructor helped me relax my excessively tensed large muscle groupings so that they were then less taxing on my system and the energy they were depleting could be better focused elsewhere.
I've noted that too much junk food also taxes my energy resources. That's the basis of the book "Potatoes Not Prozac" which focuse on the impacts of unhealthy diets.
And as I've noted below I've been exploring the usage of the active form of B6 - P5P - with my naturopath as one method of rebalancing my system/body/mind so that it works more efficiently.
He has also recommeded the following "adaptogens" which I'm trying out. Sisu(http://www.sisu.health.com) sells the two in a combo. called Ginsing Plus:
Siberian Ginseng
(Eleutherococcus senticosus) is a potent "adaptogen" which means it normalizes the functions of the body under stress. Adaptogens do not have specific functions, yet are able to increase resistance to adverse influences through initiating a wide range of physical, chemical and biochemical reactions within the body. Among the many benefits attributed to Siberian Ginseng are: increased resistance to colds and infection; enhanced stamina and endurance; improved concentration and memory; relief from stress, depression and fatigue and better tolerance of chemotherapy and radiation treatment. Siberian Ginseng has historically been used by the Russian military, cosmonauts, and Olympic athletes for its strength and stamina enhancing properties and is utilized as an aid in coping with the harsh winters of that region. Although most of the evidence in support of Siberian Ginseng's energizing effect is anecdotal, one study has demonstrated its ability to increase one's ability to handle physical stress (workload). In this study, six males in their 20s were given a ginseng extract, and their physical abilities measured on and off this extract, and when a placebo was given. Substantial increase in the ability to perform was noted in several different areas. This increase seemed to be partially attributable to the improvement of oxygen metabolism.i
Ashwaganda
(Withania somnifera), or Winter Cherry, is an Indian herb used in Ayurvedic medicine. The name, ashwaganda, literally translates to "sweat of a horse". Like Siberian Ginseng, Ashwaganda is a potent adaptogen, having particular value in the treatment of stress, and in providing a person with the extra energy needed to cope with busy days. The active constituents of ashwaganda are known as withanolides. Many studies have demonstrated the adaptogenic properties of ashwaganda, believed due to the high concentration of withanolides within the root. For example, one study demonstrated how ashwaganda prevented the depletion of vitamin C and cortisol (an adrenal hormone) in people who were under stress and prevented stress-related gastrointestinal ulcers.ii Ashwaganda has a slight sedative effect, making it an effective remedy for people who feel "stressed out".One of the benefits of using these two herbs in combination is that they provide the body with a wide spectrum of adaptogenicsubstances. This can provide a synergistic effect, allowing the body to make the most of the active components best suited to its unique needs.
Dr.Robert Sapolsky has and is extensively researching the impacts of stress. He wrote:
"…as the evidence in this chapter makes abundantly clear, depression is a genetic disorder of being vulnerable to a stressful environment." in, "Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers: An Updated Guide to Stress, Stress-Related Diseases, and Coping", 1998, where the chapter he is there wrapping up explored these linkages and the negative impacts on the brain of too many stressors.Though I haven't listened to it fully yet, as it cut out on me because of Net overload I discovered the following audio link last night from a presentation he did for on the links between stress and memory:http://www.exploratorium.edu/memory/robertsapolsky.html, as part of a series on Memory for something called the Exploratorium.
For those who want to get deep into brain neurology, which I prefer not to, I came across the following url with lots of linked articles when re-searching for the above link:
http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~mwehr/X2BioWR.htmA beautiful day on Canada's wet coast I'm going to go enjoy it as too much time on-line and not enjoying nature can be a source of stress too.
Sante!
dj
Posted by shar on August 5, 2000, at 12:36:37
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss » kazoo, posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 7:58:33
> What is a Q.E.D.?
QED is like, "therefore" or "and so it follows" or "the result as proven" or "as it's been shown" or "it's a moot point, then, that the following will be true." Often comes at the very last line of very long mathematical proofs.Shar
>
Posted by CarolAnn on August 5, 2000, at 13:57:09
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ - Energy and adaptogens..., posted by dj on August 5, 2000, at 12:32:46
> Hi dj, do you know anything about Reishi mushrooms? I just read a magazine article that says Reishi Mushrooms (tea or capsule form) :
Promote a healthy immune system.
support the circulatory system.
Calm the nervous system WITHOUT sedating.
Promote vitality and longevity.
Increase energy AND improve sleep.(?)And much, much more. So, typical me, I went right out and got some capsules(just not a tea person). The problem is I can't find much about dosing, except what's on the label, and I also can't find any objective advice about brand effectiveness (I got GNC brand, just 'cause the store was convenient).
I'd appreciate any info you have, I've tried to research on the WEB, but it's hard to find what you need unless someone reccomends a specific site. I don't suppose you have a favorite alternative health site for any of your research?
Thanks so much! CarolAnn
Posted by dj on August 6, 2000, at 9:21:06
In reply to Re: Energy and adaptogens...query for dj..., posted by CarolAnn on August 5, 2000, at 13:57:09
> > Hi dj, do you know anything about Reishi mushrooms...
I don't suppose you have a favorite alternative health site for any of your research?
> Thanks so much! CarolAnnCarolAnn,
I count on my naturopath more for explanations though I occassionally do searchs on line so I sympathize with your concern about sources as there are lots of questionable ones out there and search engines can give you a lot of 'noise' amidst the useful stuff. For instance I just did a search for the Tzu Chi Institute for
Complementary and Alternative Medicine
http//www.google.com, one of the better search engines and didn't come up with the direct url for several pages. It is one worth taking a look at though its links may offer more value than the site itself. I haven't explored those but you can find them at:
http://www.tzu-chi.bc.ca/resources.htmIf I have a herbal or such question I usually check out Dr. Andrew Weil's website:
http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/Following is what he had to say about a variety of medicinal mushrooms including the Reishi for which he did not offer much more insight than what you noted, though he did provide a link at the bottom which may offer more plus this one:
http://www.nutritionsciencenews.com/"Mushrooms are a big favorite of mine, but if you're just learning about their medicinal properties, I don't blame you for being confused about which ones are -- or aren't -- good for you. In general, I advise against eating a lot of the cultivated white or "button" mushrooms found on supermarket shelves across the nation. They are among a number of foods (including celery, peanuts, peanut products, and salted, pickled, or smoked foods) that contain natural carcinogens. Just how dangerous these natural toxins are is unknown, but we do know that they are not present in other kinds of mushrooms that offer great health benefits.
Instead of white mushrooms, I suggest you look for the more exotic varieties which are becoming increasingly available in this country. Some are edible and can make a delicious addition to your diet, but some are strictly medicinal mushrooms, and they come dried or in capsule form. Here's a brief guide to my favorites, in alphabetical order:
Cordyceps: A Chinese mushroom used as a tonic and restorative. It is also known for improving athletic performance. You can buy whole, dried cordyceps in health food stores and add them to soups and stews, or drink tea made from powdered cordyceps. You can also get cordyceps in capsule form. To treat general weakness, take cordyceps once a day, following the dosage advice on the product. For health maintenance, take it once or twice a week.
Maitake: This delicious Japanese mushroom is also called "hen of the woods" because it grows in big clusters that resemble the fluffed tail feathers of a nesting hen. You should be able to find it dried or fresh in Japanese markets, gourmet foods stores, or upscale supermarkets. Research indicates that maitake has anticancer, antiviral, and immune-system enhancing effects. It may also reduce blood pressure and blood sugar.
Reishi: Strictly a medicinal mushroom -- not a culinary one -- reishi is hard and woody and has a very bitter taste. Like maitake and other related mushrooms species, reishi can improve immune function and inhibit the growth of some malignant tumors. It also shows significant anti-inflammatory effects, reduces allergic responsiveness, and protects the liver. You can buy dried, ground mushrooms and use them to make tea if you don't mind the bitterness. Otherwise, I suggest buying reishi tablets or capsules, which are available in health food stores. Follow the recommended dosage, and take reishi every day for at least two months to see what it can do for you.
Shiitake: These meaty and flavorful mushrooms contain a substance called eritadenine which encourages body tissues to absorb cholesterol and lower the amount circulating in the blood. One Japanese experiment showed that eating 90 grams (about three ounces) of fresh shiitake a day lowered serum cholesterol 12 points in a week -- it even counteracted cholesterol increases caused by adding butter to the diet. Shiitakes also have antiviral and anticancer effects. Dried shiitakes, available at all Oriental grocery stores, are also effective. Fresh ones are becoming increasingly available thanks to domestic cultivation of this delicious mushroom.
Are there any drawbacks to eating mushrooms? It's rare, but some people are allergic, and some find them hard to digest. To learn more about the health-promoting effects of mushrooms, check out http://www.fungi.com, the Web site of Fungi Perfecti, an excellent source for information about medicinal and gourmet edible mushrooms.Let us know how it goes!
Sante!
dj
Posted by Jennifer on August 8, 2000, at 5:07:32
In reply to Depression and IQ loss - Brian fog or Brain cloud?, posted by SLS on August 5, 2000, at 9:27:13
> Hola Scott,
Yo quero disculparse por escibiendo espanol mal. Es muy deficil despues muchos anos.
Un peqeuno mas...
>P.E.T. scan brain imaging...I was privileged to have my picture taken. My cerebral cortex was almost entirely blue.
Depresion = azul. Muy interesante!
>
> The RAM analogy may run into problems as it represents a static number of specific registers available or affected. I think that brain activity remains dynamic in that specific areas may become less suppressed and more suppressed over time. Regions of activity and inactivity may shift. Perhaps this is why someone can remember easily those things that they were unable to remember the hour before.
>Si, pero con un ordenador, la informacion en el RAM cambia continuamente
> My guess is that there is not so much a competition or apportionment of function between different pathways in the brain as there is simply a change or lack of function in specific areas.
Yo pienso es ambos.> I think rebooting my brain would solve my problem. Let it reset and initiate function in its originally designed default mode. Perhaps, without having to go through a childhood of chronic psychosocial stress, things will remain nominal.
En el modo original, no esta estres. Solamente bueno cerebro funcion! :) Porque tiene mucho estres en su ninez? No es necesario respuesta aqui.>A stroke victim can build new roadways or perhaps repair the old ones using his healthy road-building crews.
No peinso es la verdad. En el? la? paciente con un(a) "stroke", aprende enviar recados a signacion de ruta diferente.
>The depressed brain is slow or perhaps unable to build new roads because the equipment is damaged and may not have the fuel to run it...Existing roads remain infrequently traveled
Yo acordo.
>Doesn't this happen sometimes?
Si!
> You would be amazed to see how much my Spanish improves as my depression improves. I thought my loss of fluency was due to my lack of usage over the past 20 years. Of course, I have lost some. However, much of it returns startlingly when I experience even an hour of improvement of my depressed state.
Yo espero usted lee este recado en un bueno hora de depresion [azul :) ]
Abrazo y amistad
Su amiga loco,
Jennifer
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 9, 2000, at 0:19:20
In reply to Depresion y inteligencia/nube o nieble de cerebro? » SLS, posted by Jennifer on August 8, 2000, at 5:07:32
> Yo quero disculparse por escibiendo espanol mal. Es muy deficil despues muchos anos...
I'm delighted to see a post in another language, but please when doing that try to remember to indicate *which* language after "Language", just above the box for the body of your post. That way, your post will appear with the appropriate translation options at the top.
Bob
Posted by Jennifer on August 9, 2000, at 4:33:06
In reply to Re: posting in other languages, posted by Dr. Bob on August 9, 2000, at 0:19:20
Dr. Bob...
I'm not sure that my spanish could actually be considered translatable! Since SLS mentioned is wax and wane of his spanish ability depending on his level of depression...and he ended his follow up with "Que tu te disfrutes tambien" I figured I'd check his depression level and see if he could translate my EXTREMELY poor spanish. I'm actually surprised that someone bilingual didn't get on here and tell me to "give it up". I will, however, heed your advice on the language listing.
> >indicate *which* language
See! Even you couldn't decided if it was really spanish!Silliness aside...Jennifer
Posted by Noa on August 9, 2000, at 12:22:27
In reply to Depression and IQ loss, posted by tdaneen on August 3, 2000, at 14:24:43
I have wondered about this myself.
During the worst of my hypothyroid/depression, my brain fog was thick and really made me cognitively impaired.
I wonder if, as I feel better, and the fog lifts, are there any permanent damages to my intelligence? I'll never know, becasue I have never been tested, so have no baseline to compare with (other than a pre-first grade screening done by the public school when I was 5, in which I remember being asked to draw a person. Being that it was the early sixties, to me, person non-specified was, of course, male, despite my being female!! Don't remember the other elements of the screening, but it wasn't an IQ test anyway)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2000, at 21:12:07
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by Noa on August 9, 2000, at 12:22:27
> During the worst of my hypothyroid/depression, my brain fog was thick and really made me cognitively impaired.
In the elderly, this is known as "pseudo-dementia" and needs to be ruled out before the diagnosis of Alzheimer's is made...
Bob
Posted by Noa on August 11, 2000, at 9:43:30
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2000, at 21:12:07
> In the elderly, this is known as "pseudo-dementia" and needs to be ruled out before the diagnosis of Alzheimer's is made...
>
> BobSleep apnea should also be ruled out before dxing alzheimers, because it can also cause pseudodementia.
Posted by Noa on August 11, 2000, at 9:45:06
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2000, at 21:12:07
Dr. Bob, do you know if there are permanent effects on intelligence from depression and/or hypothyroid?
Posted by Monkeyoga on October 23, 2005, at 8:36:11
In reply to Re: Depression and IQ loss, posted by Noa on August 9, 2000, at 12:22:27
I apologize for resurrecting this post, but I can address this question.
When I was a kid -- probably in kindergarten or first grade -- I took some kind of IQ test and scored 140.
Since then, I've been through an episode of major depression lasting about seven years and experienced the brain cloud talked about above. In the past couple of years, I've taken an online IQ test a couple of times (the "tickle your brain" one, with Einstein's picture) and scored, both times, 140.
Granted, the Internet isn't exactly the best place to find a legitimate test of anything, but there you have it.
-Monkeyoga
> I have wondered about this myself.
>
> During the worst of my hypothyroid/depression, my brain fog was thick and really made me cognitively impaired.
>
> I wonder if, as I feel better, and the fog lifts, are there any permanent damages to my intelligence? I'll never know, becasue I have never been tested, so have no baseline to compare with (other than a pre-first grade screening done by the public school when I was 5, in which I remember being asked to draw a person. Being that it was the early sixties, to me, person non-specified was, of course, male, despite my being female!! Don't remember the other elements of the screening, but it wasn't an IQ test anyway)
This is the end of the thread.
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