![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rgreene on July 14, 2000, at 0:12:09
Great to hear many of you benefiting from Adrafinil! I just started three days ago for increased confidence, energy, and less anxiety in social situations.
Two quick questions:
1. Any good web sites where I can learn more about this drug? Can't find much info, which makes me a little uncomfortable. ANY references would be appreciated!
2. The only change I've noticed (I know it's early still) is a strange odor in my urine. Anyone else? How does one know when his/her liver is compromised?
Posted by JohnL on July 14, 2000, at 3:59:25
In reply to World Wide ADRAFINIL, posted by rgreene on July 14, 2000, at 0:12:09
> Great to hear many of you benefiting from Adrafinil! I just started three days ago for increased confidence, energy, and less anxiety in social situations.
> Two quick questions:
> 1. Any good web sites where I can learn more about this drug? Can't find much info, which makes me a little uncomfortable. ANY references would be appreciated!
> 2. The only change I've noticed (I know it's early still) is a strange odor in my urine. Anyone else? How does one know when his/her liver is compromised?RGreene,
You're right. It is hard to find info on Adrafinil. Unless you can read several foreign languages. Below is some info I've gathered.
I'm not sure Adrafinil compromises the liver in any way. I could be wrong. I admit I don't understand this part of it very much. Everything I've read says that long term use at high doses 'can' cause elevated liver enzymes, whatever that means. Two blood tests a year is a good idea to check for that. I haven't read about or heard about anyone having liver problems with short term use or midish-lowish doses. Or even longterm use for that matter. Kind of like Cylert. Cylert requires blood monitoring for similar reasons. But when one the last time we ever heard of someone actually experiencing a liver condition while taking Cylert?As for the urine smell, I wouldn't worry about it. Even asparagus can do that, except asparagus is probably a lot stronger. But if it concerns you, you could request a urine test.
I hope it goes well for you. My own use of Adrafinil has been pretty positive. Everything in writing (below) has been confirmed in my own personal trial. Hope it's the same with you.
ADRAFINIL (Olmifon)Rapidly restores vigilance and alertness in older people and the physically and mentally tired. Has a powerful
antidepressant action far superior to that of fluoxetine (Prozac) and clomipramine (Anafranil) and is without any serious
side effects. Adrafinil restores your powers of concentration, memory and intellectual function. When administered to
older people who have lost interest in life, adrafinil makes them want to take part in life again and they find that they
have renewed energy and vigor. Adrafinil may be correctly described as an anti-aging drug because it directly combats
degeneration in the part of the brain that allows you to take pleasure in life. Elderly people very often have disturbed
sleep patterns and take many naps during the day. Adrafinil restores a youthful sleep/wake cycle of full alertness in the
daytime and deep restorative sleep at night. After several weeks of treatment with Adrafinil daytime sleepiness
disappears, interest in intellectual activity is restored and depression lifts. It is very important to note that this improved
quality of alertness is NOT accompanied with mental excitation and insomnia as occurs with amphetamine or caffeine.
The correct dosage is 300 to 600 mg per day. The dosage can be adjusted according to response. Remember it takes
three weeks for all the effects of Adrafinil to become apparent. Do not use Adrafinil if you have any type of kidney or liver
problem or if you suffer from epilepsy.
ADRAFINIL: What is; (a.k.a. Olmifon) (Description & information below)
NOTE:not to be confused with "Anafranil (a.k.a. clomipramine)" the Antidepressant.Adrafinil provides alertness in most without the feeling often felt with stimulants that usually are prescribed for a person with
narcolepsy. Such as amphetamines etc. Also the possibility of tolerance is low with its continued use. There is however a
need for certain Liver function tests
on a regular basis with its continued use. Normally the same types of required testing as with the medication " cylert " which is
commonly prescribed in the USA. It is also used in certain parts europe as a "antidepressant". It is the combination of
Adrafinil's releasing stimulantive arousal effect(s), and its antidepressant effects that some doctors in europe recommend
Adrafinil over its newer form of Modafinil. There have been studies done in the United States "measuring depression in
individuals with sleep disorders",. In one study it was suggested that the
"rate of narcolepsy and depression is estimated to be between 30-52%".ADRAFINIL
Adrafinil: Alertness Without StimulationAdrafinil is the prototype of a new class of smart drug - the eugeroics (ie, "good arousal") - designed to promote vigilance
and alertness. Developed by the French pharmaceutical company Lafon Laboratories, adrafinil (brand name, Olmifon) has
been approved in many European countries for treating narcolepsy, a condition characterized by excessive daytime sleepiness
and other unusual symptoms.Non-narcoleptic users generally find that adrafinil gives them increased energy and reduces fatigue, while improving cognitive
function, mental focus, concentration, and memory. It has been reported that quiet people who take adrafinil become more
talkative, reserved people become more open, and passive people become more active.Adrafinil has been described by some users as a "kinder, gentler" stimulant, because it provides these benefits but
usually with much less of the anxiety, agitation, insomnia, associated with conventional stimulants.Adrafinil's effects are more subtle than those of the stimulants you may be used to, building over a period of days to months.
They appear to be based on its ability to selectively stimulate 1-adrenergic receptors in the brain.2 These receptors normally
respond to norepinephrine (noradrenaline), a neurotransmitter linked to alertness, learning, and memory. This is in contrast to
conventional stimulants, which stimulate a broader spectrum of brain receptors, including those involving dopamine. Its more
focused activity profile may account for adrafinil's relative lack of adverse side effects.Dosing
The standard dose is 2 to 4 300-mg tablets per day for improving cognitive function, although some people may find lower
doses produce a desirable degree of improvement. Higher doses have been used to treat narcolepsy.ADRAFINIL (OLMIFON)
A unique substance which improves daytime alertness and vigilance
without altering the phases of sleep. Take 2 to 4 tablets per day. After
8 to 10 days of treatment feelings of fatigue disappear, after 15 days
there is a powerful effect on activity and after 1 to 3 months cognitive
effects are experienced. Intellectual function is improved particularly,
the ability to formulate new ideas and recall information. Avoid if you
suffer from epilepsy, kidney or liver impairment.
> ADRAFINIL
>
> Submitted to the BIAM: 2/18/98
> Final entry: 3/23/2000
> Status: Validated
>
> Identification of substance
> Pharmacological properties
> Mechanisms of action
> Researched effects
> Therapeutic indications
> Side effects
> Genetic toxicity
> Drug Dependence
> Precautions
> Routes of administration
> Dosage and administration
> Pharmacokinetics
> Bibliography
>
> Identification of substance:
>
> Chemical formula:
> 2-[(diphenylmethyl)sulfinyl]-N-hydroxyacetamide
>
> List of names:
>
> CAS: 63547-13-7
> DCIR: ADRAFINIL
> Memorandum: Experimental code 2755: CRL 40028
> Dci: Adrafinil
> DCIp class: 69
> DCIr class: 22
> rINN ADRAFINIL
>
> Chemical class:
>
> Acetohydroxyamic Acid
>
> Regulation: Class I
>
> 1. Psychostimulant (primary usage)
>
> Mechanisms of action:
>
> 1. Principal
> Stimulant, central nervous system alpha-1 adrenergic agonist. Causes release of
serotnin and dopamine at high doses.
>
>
> Researched effects:
>
> 1. Psychotonic (primary)
>
> Therapeutic indications:
>
> Cerebral Senescence (primary)
>
> 1) Treatment for the symptoms of age-related difficulties with vigillance and
depression. Double-blinded studies against placebo demonstrated an improvement in
mental state in elderly subjects.
>
> Side Effects:
>
> 1) Determined to be very rare: Skin eruptions, gastric distress, psychomotor
excitation, mental confusion, depression, mania (in manic-depressive patients),
increase in alkaline phosphatases (with prolonged treatment).
>
> Genetic toxicity:
>
> 1. Non-teratogenic in animals (studies done in rat and rabbit)
> 2. Information lacking in humans
>
> Dependance:
>
> 1. None.
>
> Contraindications:
>
> 1) Epilepsy
> 2) Severe hepatocellular deficiency
> 3) Cirrhosis (marked increase in biodisposal in cirrhotics)
> 4) Severe renal deficiency
> 5) Athletes (Prohibited substance, Journal Officiel, 3/7/2000)
>
> Routes of administration:
>
> 1 - Oral
>
> Dosage and administration:
>
> Usual dose for oral administration in adults:
> 600 to 1200 mg/day.
> In the case of renal or hepatic deficiencies, reduce the dosage to 300-600mg/day.
>
> Pharmacokinetics:
>
> 1. Half-life: 1 hour
> 2. Elimination: Renal
>
> Absorbtion:
> One hour after taking orally, plasma concentration is maximal.
>
> Distribution:
> Bound to plasma proteins: 80%
> Half-life
> 1 hour
> Metabolism
> 75% level of hepatic metabilism in the liver to an acid derivative, then glucoronic
acid conjugation.
> Elimination
> Renal, essentially in the form of a glucoronic acid conjugate
>
> Bibliography:
> -Prescrire 1991;11:68-69
>
> Patents
>
> Unique active constituent in the following current French patents:
>
> Olmifon, 300mg tablets.
> ..
Posted by SLS on July 14, 2000, at 8:07:48
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL, posted by JohnL on July 14, 2000, at 3:59:25
Hi JohnL.
Given the possibility that I may be taking adrafinil (Olmifon) in the near future, I would like to know more specific details regarding its potential to cause liver problems. One statement often cited is that when taking adrafinil, it is necessary to test for liver abnormalities in a way similar to Cylert (pemoline). By itself, this is a meaningless statement. One could just as easily replace the word "Cylert" with the word "Depakote". Perhaps the writer was simply trying to convey the idea that tests need to be performed, and decided to choose Cylert as an example because it is also considered a type of stimulant.
What type of liver abnormalities? How serious can these abnormalities be? Can any hepatotoxity produced lead to irreversible damage or liver failure? What is the rate of occurrence?
These are the questions that I would like to have the answers to.
> But when one the last time we ever heard of someone actually experiencing a liver condition while taking Cylert?
For me, 1998. I guess they occur every year, although infrequently.
It seems that Cylert is most likely to produce hepatic injury in children under the age of twelve who are also taking Ritalin. Several liver transplants have been necessary. I don't know why the authors of the abstract I included below were only able to find one report.
> "Metabolism
> 75% level of hepatic metabilism in the liver to an acid derivative, then glucoronic acid conjugation."I believe this metabolic derivative is modafinil. It is my understanding that adrafinil is converted into modafinil by the liver.
- Scott-----------------------------------------------------------
2: J Pediatr 1998 May;132(5):894-7Pemoline hepatotoxicity in children.
Marotta PJ, Roberts EA
Division of Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto,
Ontario, Canada.Pemoline hepatotoxicity ranges from asymptomatic elevations in levels of serum
aminotransferases to fulminant liver failure. We report five cases of pemoline
hepatotoxicity in children (four boys, one girl), including the only reported
case resulting in orthotopic liver transplantation. We conclude that pemoline
causes toxic liver damage in children. The severity of the damage is highly
variable, and its onset may be late in the course of treatment. Pemoline and
methylphenidate may act synergistically to cause liver damage. The levels of
serum aminotransferases should be monitored throughout treatment with these
agents.Publication Types:
Review
Review of reported casesPMID: 9602211, UI: 98264921
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by JohnL on July 15, 2000, at 7:49:26
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL » JohnL, posted by SLS on July 14, 2000, at 8:07:48
Scott,
I agree with you completely. I wish I knew more about potential adverse effects on the liver. I've searched high and low and can't find anything. Ironically, that actually makes me a little more comfortable about it. That's because if there were some troubling cases of liver toxicity out there, they would be in print. There would be at least one or two or more abstracts concerning that at mentalhealth.com. But there aren't any. Not with Adrafinil anyway.
I've never seen any information suggesting Adrafinil is metabolized into Modafinil. Since I've tried both, all I can say is it sure doesn't feel like that is happening. My system didn't like Modafinil at all, but seems to embrace Adrafinil.
I take herbal supplements of Milk Thistle. This herb has a huge documented track record of preventing and even reversing liver damage. One test in particular stands out in my mind. Patients were protected from liver toxicity of poisonous mushrooms by taking Milk Thistle immediately afterwards. The active ingredient in Milk Thistle is the same one in many of the prescription liver medications. With scant information available on Adrafinil, this affords me a little more comfort level.
Everything I've read says that if liver enzymes are elevated, as evidenced by a blood test, then either reducing or eliminating the dose of Adrafinil is the way to get those liver enzymes back to normal. That implies that the condition is reversible. The first blood test is recommended at 30 days. Then twice a year after that. I'll probably do it three times a year just to be on the safe side. But because it isn't needed weekly or monthly, this implies that whatever liver conditions might occur take time. No overnight disasters. But like you said, I would like to know more.
One thing is for sure. Having this risk in the back of my mind is definitely a fair tradeoff considering my notable improvement. It's nice to actually enjoy living again. To know the meaning of the words 'fun', 'motivated', 'anticipation of pleasureable activities'. To be depression free. So I need to get a blood test 2 or 3 times a year. This is a tradeoff--or side effect if you will--that I can live with. I couldn't live with the side effects, or lack of complete efficacy, of just about anything else.
Nice to hear from you.
John
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2000, at 10:13:12
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL - SLS, posted by JohnL on July 15, 2000, at 7:49:26
Hi John.
I hope you continue to experience such a wonderful life as the result of having found adrafinil.
> I agree with you completely. I wish I knew more about potential adverse effects on the liver. I've searched high and low and can't find anything. Ironically, that actually makes me a little more comfortable about it. That's because if there were some troubling cases of liver toxicity out there, they would be in print. There would be at least one or two or more abstracts concerning that at mentalhealth.com. But there aren't any. Not with Adrafinil anyway.
When I read your post questioning whether or not there was really any liability for adrafinil to affect the liver, I thought perhaps the concerns fostered by the package-insert were unwarranted. Sometimes, an observed event must be included in a list of adverse reactions for a drug, regardless of whether the event had truly been caused by it.
> Everything I've read says that if liver enzymes are elevated, as evidenced by a blood test, then either reducing or eliminating the dose of Adrafinil is the way to get those liver enzymes back to normal.
So, from what you've read, liver enzyme elevations do occur with some frequency? Where can I find the information you've encountered?
> That implies that the condition is reversible.
It implies that the elevation of enzymes is reversible. It doesn't imply that any hepatic injury that may have been incurred is reversible (sorry, I am cursed with a sometimes logical mind). You're probably right, though.
> The first blood test is recommended at 30 days. Then twice a year after that.
You have certainly collected some detailed and important information about adrafinil. I am not terribly experienced with tracking down information on the Internet. Perhaps you should start one of these "tips" folders on adrafinil. Even specifying the recommended schedule for liver testing is invaluable information that people here may not be aware of or have access to.
> I've never seen any information suggesting Adrafinil is metabolized into Modafinil. Since I've tried both, all I can say is it sure doesn't feel like that is happening. My system didn't like Modafinil at all, but seems to embrace Adrafinil.
Actually, after I had posted the info regarding adrafinil metabolism, I began to think about your experiences with the two. One would think that if adrafinil were so extensively metabolized into modafinil, you would have experienced some of the anxiety and headaches you had while you were taking modafinil.
One analogy I am aware of, however, suggests the possibility that such a metabolism would not exclude your observed reactions. Imipramine is converted to desipramine in the body. At steady state, there is far more plasma desipramine than there is imipramine. Desipramine is a more potent NE reuptake inhibitor than is imipramine. When given separately as drugs, desipramine often produces more activation and anxiety than does imipramine. Personally, I would hope that modafinil is not the metabolic product of adrafinil, as I have not had a good experience with Provigil.
I began taking Provigil Monday morning. I experienced a mild antidepressant effect within an hour after taking my first 100mg dose on an empty stomach. It lasted for about half the day. Then I began to feel kind of spacy or hazy, with the improvement having waned. This weird feeling wore off within 24 hours as I kept a 200mg/day schedule. I was left with a bit more energy, but I experienced a low level anxiety and a dull headache. After four days, however, any increase in energy and cognition disappeared, and I just plain didn't like the way I felt. I cut back to 100mg yesterday and do not plan to take any more. I have begun to feel more like my usual sick self. How wonderful.
How similar is this experience to yours?
I am encouraged by reading the accounts of people who did not respond well to Provigil who went on to respond happily to adrafinil. I guess what I would like to know is, exactly how severely depressed these folks have been and how relevant their cases are to mine. I am considering trying adrafinil in the hopes I will experience a scenario similar to yours and the others'. If it is only partially effective, I would like to add Parnate to it. What do you think about this? Has anyone here tried combining adrafinil with an MAOI?
> I take herbal supplements of Milk Thistle. This herb has a huge documented track record of preventing and even reversing liver damage. One test in particular stands out in my mind. Patients were protected from liver toxicity of poisonous mushrooms by taking Milk Thistle immediately afterwards. The active ingredient in Milk Thistle is the same one in many of the prescription liver medications. With scant information available on Adrafinil, this affords me a little more comfort level.
> One thing is for sure. Having this risk in the back of my mind is definitely a fair tradeoff considering my notable improvement.
I agree emphatically.
> It's nice to actually enjoy living again. To know the meaning of the words 'fun', 'motivated', 'anticipation of pleasureable activities'. To be depression free.
Yeah, I could put up with that.
Listen, John, you are an important resource here on Psycho-Babble. I always appreciate any ideas you offer me regarding my condition.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Scott----------------------------------------------------
P.S. I thought you might enjoy the following: Just chop-off an oxygen and voila...* If it does not look right on your browser, cut and paste it into a word processor and choose a fixed-space font "Courier New". It might show properly in the Follow-Up window.
Adrafinil: 1[(diphenylmethyl)sulfinyl]acetohydroxamic acid (C15H15NO3S)
_____
/ _ \
\_____/ O O
\ " " H
>--S--CH2--C--N
_____/ OH
/ _ \
\_____/Modafinil: [(Diphenylmethyl)sulfinyl]acetamide (C15H15NO2S)
Modafinil CAS nr: [68693-11-8]
_____
/ _ \
\_____/ O O
\ " " H
>--S--CH2--C--N
_____/ H
/ _ \
\_____/
Posted by FredPotter on July 16, 2000, at 16:17:46
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL - SLS » JohnL, posted by SLS on July 15, 2000, at 10:13:12
I think Amineptine was withdrawn because of liver toxicity to a tiny minority, maybe only one person, so I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Adrafinil - also because Amineptine was so effective, ironically, as effectiveness seems to indicate abuse potential to the medical profession. I think Adrafinil started to work for me too, but I've run out. By the way, I don't think it is an adrenergic agonist.
One thing I read about drugs like it is that it boosts blood glucose levels. As a newly diagnosed diabetic type II I'm not keen on this happening. Can anyone add to this?
Thanks
Fred
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2000, at 8:15:26
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL - SLS, posted by FredPotter on July 16, 2000, at 16:17:46
> I think Amineptine was withdrawn because of liver toxicity to a tiny minority, maybe only one person, so I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Adrafinil - also because Amineptine was so effective, ironically, as effectiveness seems to indicate abuse potential to the medical profession.
I don't think there is any doubt that amineptine does have abuse potential, unlike most other antidepressants. This is most likely due to its effects on promoting dopamine neurotransmission in a way similar to cocaine. I don't know if there was any one reason why it was withdrawn for market worldwide. I am not familiar with the liver thing. I know the International Olympic Committee must have had some input, as amineptine had become one of the more popular "doping" drugs to help enhance athletic performance. Eventually, amineptine was screened for through drug testing for athletic events all over the world.
> One thing I read about drugs like it is that it boosts blood glucose levels. As a newly diagnosed diabetic type II I'm not keen on this happening. Can anyone add to this?
I'll see what I can find out for you.
- Scott
Posted by Rick on July 17, 2000, at 17:08:15
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL - SLS, posted by FredPotter on July 16, 2000, at 16:17:46
> One thing I read about drugs like it is that it boosts blood glucose levels. As a newly diagnosed diabetic type II I'm not keen on this happening.
Can anyone add to this?
> Thanks
> FredI can comment on my current experience with Provigil (modafinil), which is a newer derivative of adrafinil. After a month taking Serzone, I added 200mg/day of Provigil. That was about five weeks ago, and based on frequent home monitoring I have seen no blood glucose increase during that time. That doesn't mean it could never happen, but so far, so good. Besides, frequent home-monitoring could quickly flag any upward trend in glucose levels and allow you and your doctor to assess the need to make changes.
But I'd like to back up a little to give you a more complete story.
First of all, I was amazed at how just 20 mg/day of Celexa lowered my blood sugar to deeply within the normal blood glucose ranges and kept it there consistently for the four months I was taking it. This was certainly an unanticipated and welcome "side effect". (Athough for someone taking insulin or certain diabetes meds, this could potentially lead hypoglycemia without a meds adjustment.)
Since stopping the Celexa (and moving to Serzone) I'm up 15-20 points at all readings, with no changes in diet or physical activity. I don't know how typical this kind of reaction to Celexa was, although I've read research and anecdotes about other SSRI's, especially Prozac, lowering glucose levels. My pdoc said he read something similar about Serzone, but that sure hasn't appeared to be true for me...if anything Serzone's added perhaps 5 points to my pre-Celexa levels. (Or is it possible that the Celexa "crutch" permanently changed some aspect of my body's glucose metabolism...in a sense causing a dependency?? I think I'm getting way out of my league here...)
If it weren't for the fact that Celexa made sex less pleasurable and sometimes difficult, I'd be tempted to start taking it again just for the blood sugar effect -- especially now that the Provigil would probably counter the fatigue and lack of motivation Celexa caused. But I doubt any doctor (either pdoc or GP) would continue to prescribe Celexa soley to maintain glucose benefits.
As a brief background, I've never been diagnosed as diabetic, especially since I consistently shed unwanted pounds during the year following my first fasting blood test (136 mg/dl - or was it 132?). But it's ikely I'm at least glucose impaired.
I started to type a few other observations, but I'd be wandering too far astray from your question. I would like to say that it's gratifying to see how quickly diabetes monitoring and treatment options have been evolving over the last few years, especially for cases where lifestyle changes aren't providing adequate control. And there's an ever-accelerating amount of very promising research taking place.
Posted by FredPotter on July 17, 2000, at 17:48:24
In reply to Re: Blood Sugar/ World Wide ADRAFINIL -Fred Potter, posted by Rick on July 17, 2000, at 17:08:15
Thanks Rick I was on Celexa when my high blood sugar was detected. I'm now on Prozac, which as you say is well-known for its blood glucose lowering properties. I haven't got my machine for measuring blood sugar, but as you say, that should do the trick for monitoring the activity of Adrafinil. I mentioned this, because somewhere I read that Adrafinil gives more energy by increasing blood glucose. I imagine this was a layperson's guess, as when my blood sugar is high I feel exhausted.
Fred
Posted by tina on July 18, 2000, at 17:41:01
In reply to Re: Blood Sugar/ World Wide ADRAFINIL -Fred Potter, posted by FredPotter on July 17, 2000, at 17:48:24
Hi Rick: I've just been diagnosed with hypoglycemia and I've never had a blood sugar problem before. I am taking moclobemide. Do you know if it causes the same thing? I took celexa for a month before startiing the Manerix and have been on the Manerix for 6 weeks now. Thanks in advance for any and all input.
Be well
Tina
Posted by Rick on July 18, 2000, at 22:10:07
In reply to Re: Blood Sugar/ World Wide ADRAFINIL -RICK, posted by tina on July 18, 2000, at 17:41:01
Tina -
I just noticed my reply to you never showed up. Oh well, let's try again....
Generally speaking, I do know that MAOI's can affect blood sugar, but I don't know whether that applies to moclobemide.
I would think that if the moclobemide were going to affect your glucose, that effect would have shown up by now, unless perhaps you've increasd your dosage within the last three weeks. But it would be prudent to monitor regularly anyways, and keep in touch with your doctor -- especially if you feel new or intensified hypolycemia symptoms.
That said, it is well known that MAOI's can affect blood glucose in many people. It's been awhile, but I've read a number of articles that talked about this. (You can probably find some of them just by entering something like "MAOI and glucose" into a search engine or Medline.) I recall that some articles said MAOI's can lower sugar, while others said they can have an unpredictable effect. (Somewhat more said "lowers" than "unpredictable", I think.) Importantly, I don't know if they were looking at reversible MAOI's like moclobemide, however. That could be a different story than Nardil or Parnate.
It just so happens the first psychotropic I ever took was Nardil. My pdoc told me to expect it to lower my glucose. As it turns out, it seemed to have minimal, if any, effect on it. (He also predicted lower blood pressure, and THAT sure turned out to be true! When the dose got high enough, it turned me from hypertensive to hypotensive alsmost overnight!) Selegiline (irreversible MAO-B inhibitor) had no effect on my glucose, but I was taking a pretty low dose.
Good Luck,
Rick> Hi Rick: I've just been diagnosed with hypoglycemia and I've never had a blood sugar problem before. I am taking moclobemide. Do you know if it causes the same thing? I took celexa for a month before startiing the Manerix and have been on the Manerix for 6 weeks now. Thanks in advance for any and all input.
> Be well
> Tina
Posted by tina on July 19, 2000, at 7:17:09
In reply to Re: Blood Sugar/ World Wide ADRAFINIL -RICK, posted by Rick on July 18, 2000, at 22:10:07
I did increase the dose about 3 weeks ago. Nice guess Rick. So it could be the Manerix, just maybe? I have a doc appt today and think I'll discuss it with her. I'm thinking of changing meds anyway and this info will be part of that decision. Thank you very much for responding even though I kind of interrupted your thread.
Your a sweetie
Hugs and happy tawts
Tina> Tina -
>
> I just noticed my reply to you never showed up. Oh well, let's try again....
>
> Generally speaking, I do know that MAOI's can affect blood sugar, but I don't know whether that applies to moclobemide.
>
> I would think that if the moclobemide were going to affect your glucose, that effect would have shown up by now, unless perhaps you've increasd your dosage within the last three weeks. But it would be prudent to monitor regularly anyways, and keep in touch with your doctor -- especially if you feel new or intensified hypolycemia symptoms.
>
> That said, it is well known that MAOI's can affect blood glucose in many people. It's been awhile, but I've read a number of articles that talked about this. (You can probably find some of them just by entering something like "MAOI and glucose" into a search engine or Medline.) I recall that some articles said MAOI's can lower sugar, while others said they can have an unpredictable effect. (Somewhat more said "lowers" than "unpredictable", I think.) Importantly, I don't know if they were looking at reversible MAOI's like moclobemide, however. That could be a different story than Nardil or Parnate.
>
> It just so happens the first psychotropic I ever took was Nardil. My pdoc told me to expect it to lower my glucose. As it turns out, it seemed to have minimal, if any, effect on it. (He also predicted lower blood pressure, and THAT sure turned out to be true! When the dose got high enough, it turned me from hypertensive to hypotensive alsmost overnight!) Selegiline (irreversible MAO-B inhibitor) had no effect on my glucose, but I was taking a pretty low dose.
>
> Good Luck,
> Rick
>
> > Hi Rick: I've just been diagnosed with hypoglycemia and I've never had a blood sugar problem before. I am taking moclobemide. Do you know if it causes the same thing? I took celexa for a month before startiing the Manerix and have been on the Manerix for 6 weeks now. Thanks in advance for any and all input.
> > Be well
> > Tina
Posted by PLA on July 25, 2000, at 17:47:34
In reply to Re: World Wide ADRAFINIL - SLS » JohnL, posted by SLS on July 15, 2000, at 10:13:12
The French firm Lafon developed modafinil, and Cephalon licensed it from Lafon.
I posed to Lafon the relationship between adrafinil and modafinil, and their response was that the latter is a metabolite of the former. I did not ask them, however, if it is the only metabolite.
This is the end of the thread.
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