![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
Was just at brain.com, there is a short piece about
mild to moderate brain injuries causing disabilities.I know that brain injuries can cause psychosis, but
I've often wondered if they could be a factor in
depression, socialization, and any and all aspects of
'normal' functioning.I have asked pdocs about my brain injury/depression
theory and they have dismissed it. I've not found any
conclusive research on this.I am certain that mild/moderate brain injuries can
result in cognative dulling. I have suffered 2 incidents
of fractured skulls and resulting concussions. One caused
amnesia (I did not even know my name) that lasted a
little longer than 24hrs; the other caused
unconsciousness that lasted about 6hrs.Both incidents were while I was in high school, and
my focus, interest, and grades all dropped after the
injuries.Has anyone read anything linking head/brain injuries
with depression? Any personal comments or theories?
hb
Posted by claire 7 on June 18, 2000, at 17:03:22
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
This is going to be very vague. Really only encouragement for you to continue to look into the idea. A neuropsychologist once mentioned to me that concussions, particularly multiple or severe ones, might be linked with certain later conditions,such as impulse control. Sorry I don't remember more about the conversation, but I think it would be worth checking into. (Someone here will probably give you much more knowledgable
feedback.)
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2000, at 21:05:55
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
> Has anyone read anything linking head/brain injuries
> with depression? Any personal comments or theories?
Dear Harry,In short, the answer to your question is yes.
In addition to psychosis, injuries to particular areas of the brain have been associated with depression and anxiety disorders. It has been awhile since I've looked into it, but one of the area(s) most often associated with these effects are both left and right temporal lobes. Some researchers believe that certain cases of depression, social anxiety/phobia, and panic disorder are actually presentations of sub-seizure temporal-lobe epilepsy. Studies of people with isolated brain lesions seems to confirm this.
Your ideas are well founded.
- Scott
Posted by Cass on June 18, 2000, at 21:22:08
In reply to Re: Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by SLS on June 18, 2000, at 21:05:55
I had never heard of brain injuries causing depression, but recently I did hear about childhood brain injuries causing ADD. I had at least one concussion as a child. (The other head injuries received no medical attention.) I was recently diagnosed with ADD. It's scary to think about the devastating results which can occur from a typical childhood fall, but what can be done?
Posted by claire 7 on June 18, 2000, at 21:58:30
In reply to Re: Brain Injuries=ADD?, posted by Cass on June 18, 2000, at 21:22:08
Interesting book, can't recall the author. DESCARTE'S ERROR.
Posted by judy1 on June 18, 2000, at 23:18:39
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
Harry,
A big time yes. I had a TBI about 2 years ago that resulted in a worsening of my mood disorder and definite cognitive problems. My neurologist sent me for neuropsychological testing and it confirmed all my subjective symptoms. I have seen a neuropsychologist (they're aren't too many around that are board certified- check with major universities; and we are working on a treatment plan. By the way, my then psychiatrist dismissed the testing as a result of depression, it wasn't until I was manic and still exhibited symptoms (although I was convinced I was fine) that it got attention. You sound as if you suffered 2 very severe TBI's- you really should be worked up. Take care.
Posted by JohnL on June 19, 2000, at 4:07:13
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
According to my pdoc, a couple different books, and hints gathered from Dr Bobs 'Tips', the stimulant class of meds is useful in treating brain injury related mood disorders.
Posted by harry b. on June 19, 2000, at 5:20:15
In reply to Re: Brain Injuries=Depression=stimulants, posted by JohnL on June 19, 2000, at 4:07:13
>
> According to my pdoc, a couple different books, and hints gathered from Dr Bobs 'Tips', the stimulant class of meds is useful in treating brain injury related mood disorders.
>JohnL-
Thanks. I have searched most of Dr. Bob's Tips
but have not found anything relating to this
subject. Do you recall which link addressed this?
(if not, don't spend time searching, I'll continue
to search)I have thought for years that my past injuries
were responsible for, or at least contributed to,
some of my limitations, especially dysthymia and
cognitive deterioration (my own subjective perception).As I understand it, the effects of brain injuries
can worsen as one ages. I've never had a neuro
exam, my GPs have not thought it was necessary. I
am going to insist on it now, but if there are
abnormalities, I'm unsure what, if any, treatment
is available, except to treat the symptoms.
hb
Posted by shar on June 19, 2000, at 15:44:30
In reply to Re: Brain Injuries=Depression=stimulants » JohnL , posted by harry b. on June 19, 2000, at 5:20:15
Yes, I have a friend who had a horse wreck, was dragged quite a ways, finally kicked free, had a concussion and minor brain damage.
Her doc says that the damage to her brain influenced the hormonal balances, and her primary symptoms now are continuing forgetfulness, fatigue, and depression.
She was given Wellbutrin (an energizing A.D.) to see if that would help. Her depression is different than mine, as she doesn't experience the crushing, breathtaking weight on her shoulders or have suicidal thoughts. She mainly has sort of a low-level but constant case of the blues and milder symptoms.
She tried Serzone (ohhhh nooooo!) previously and did not have good results. Major libido impact.
(Her doc waited until she had fully recovered from the accident before prescribing A.D.s.)
The Wellbutrin is keeping her awake and she is really worried about that (she's only been on it a short time). I told her that could be a side-effect that goes away.
So--long story short, in one case I know of Brain Injuries=Depression=Stimulating A.D.
S
Posted by KarenB on June 19, 2000, at 17:59:06
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression=stimulants. Yes, posted by shar on June 19, 2000, at 15:44:30
> Yes, I have a friend who had a horse wreck, was dragged quite a ways, finally kicked free, had a concussion and minor brain damage.
I had a head injury at age 3, then a concussion at age 12 from a horse accident, too, but that particular beast kicked me squarely in the head. After that injury, I started to experience extreme social anxiety, trouble concentrating (difficulty with longer math problems, couldn't learn to read music, etc.) and depression. Loss of interest, low motivation and drug use followed in my teen years. A few psychotherapists have tried to get at what happened to me "at around age 13," but I cannot recall anything especially traumatic, though I have certainly tried. Could this injury be the missing piece?
> The Wellbutrin is keeping her awake and she is really worried about that (she's only been on it a short time). I told her that could be a side-effect that goes away.
It's important not to take Wellbutrin too late in the day. I stopped taking it because it triggered migraines but I remember that I actually required about half the dose the doctor recommended. I smacked them in half, which is not easy to do with Wellbutrin (you need a very sharp knife and a strong steady hand) but that worked much better for me. I don't remember Wellbutrin doing much for my mood or chronic "funk," though - it mostly just provided a raw sort of slightly artificial feeling of energy. I think I was a little more "there" than I wanted to be, if that makes sense. I can be a little intense when I don't even intend to be, so a drug that makes me more "there," (in an artificial sense)is not what I need.
I wonder if it (Wellbutrin) would be useful in a very low dose combined with Sulpiride or Amisulpride? Just a thought. Your friend may not have been suffering long enough to try unconventional measures like overseas ordering. I've gotta tell you, though, I'm just about to go back to overseas meds, myself.
I have an appt. with a neurologist in July that I was going to cancel but I think I'm going to keep it. My symptoms started at a very young age but could easily be attributed to these head injuries I mention. Would they be able to detect brain damage or lesions incurred that long ago with an MRI?
Interesting stuff. Thanks, you guys.
Karen
Posted by Liz on June 19, 2000, at 23:55:54
In reply to Re: Brain Injury=Depression=stims.Sure. » shar, posted by KarenB on June 19, 2000, at 17:59:06
>
Would they be able to detect brain damage or lesions incurred that long ago with an MRI?
>
> >
Karen,If they were looking for evidence of brain injury they would likely do a battery of testing done by a neuropsychologist. They can detect subtle changes in brain function this way. It's how Alheimer's disease is diagnosed in the early stages along with monitoring of traumatic brain injuries. It's rather expensive, I think mine was $1,700 and takes all day. Be sure to have the medical side, not the behavioral side of your insurance cover it and you won't have to pay so much.
BTW, these tests are usually done by someone with a PhD, not an MD.
Posted by SLS on June 24, 2000, at 15:59:12
In reply to Brain Injuries=Depression?, posted by harry b. on June 18, 2000, at 14:44:45
> I know that brain injuries can cause psychosis, but
> I've often wondered if they could be a factor in
> depression, socialization, and any and all aspects of
> 'normal' functioning.
Dear Harry,Neurontin may be worth taking a look at, especially if social anxiety is a component of your depression.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.