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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tina1 on May 27, 2000, at 20:53:43
What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Theresa Pye on May 28, 2000, at 7:51:12
In reply to KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Tina1 on May 27, 2000, at 20:53:43
> What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
They're both addictive.
Posted by Tina1 on May 28, 2000, at 10:09:37
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Theresa Pye on May 28, 2000, at 7:51:12
I was actually asking which one works better for constant anxiety but thanks for the input T
> > What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> They're both addictive.
Posted by Gordon on May 28, 2000, at 13:13:19
In reply to KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Tina1 on May 27, 2000, at 20:53:43
> What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Actually, they're not addictive according to Webster as the definition of addictions requires that it be something that's bad for you.
They're both benzo's and have similar mechanisms of action and effects. The main difference I can see is that Xanax works faster but stays in your system a shorter period of time and therefore must be taken oftener. Also, you can feel the "whoosh" when it hits and when it leaves your system. Klonopin takes longer to take effect but last longer and may be more of a sedative. It need be taken only once or twice daily and keeps your system at a more stable level. Klonopin is reputed to have a minor depressive effect on some people so if you're depressed already, I wouldn't try it.
I think you talk to your doc and take a shot with one of them and see if it solves your problem. For more detailed information on both of them, go to http://www.mentalhealth.com and look for them under the Medications section.
Posted by Alan on May 28, 2000, at 16:00:42
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Gordon on May 28, 2000, at 13:13:19
> > What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Actually, they're not addictive according to Webster as the definition of addictions requires that it be something that's bad for you.
>
> They're both benzo's and have similar mechanisms of action and effects. The main difference I can see is that Xanax works faster but stays in your system a shorter period of time and therefore must be taken oftener. Also, you can feel the "whoosh" when it hits and when it leaves your system. Klonopin takes longer to take effect but last longer and may be more of a sedative. It need be taken only once or twice daily and keeps your system at a more stable level. Klonopin is reputed to have a minor depressive effect on some people so if you're depressed already, I wouldn't try it.
>
> I think you talk to your doc and take a shot with one of them and see if it solves your problem. For more detailed information on both of them, go to http://www.mentalhealth.com and look for them under the Medications section.
***********************************8
Actually there are several different benzos that people react differently to (and at differing doses!). Benzos are not addictive if managed properly. They are the most effective anxiolytics - and they do what they are designed to do...combat anxiety disorders. The psy profession is just coming out of the dark ages when it comes to this important understanding.
Don't just limit yourself to 1 or 2 different types. I experimented until I found that Ativan worked for me...and at doses of 4 or so MG. a day. Remember that most anti anxiety meds are UNDER used and that the appropriate dosage is one that stops the anxiety without unacceptable side effects.Good luck and let us know what happens!
Alan
***************************************
Posted by stjames on May 28, 2000, at 22:24:56
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Gordon on May 28, 2000, at 13:13:19
>
> Actually, they're not addictive according to Webster as the definition of addictions requires that it be something that's bad for you.
>James here....
Then Webster is wrong ! Addiction and being bad for you are not the same thing, this is a common
misconception. Both these meds are addictive but this does not mean you should not take them if you have a condition that warrents them.james
Posted by JohnL on May 29, 2000, at 5:57:44
In reply to KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Tina1 on May 27, 2000, at 20:53:43
> What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Tina,
I'm not sure a general concensus on Konopin vs Xanax exists. As each person responds differently depending on their own unique chemistry, a general consensus isn't very helpful anyway.Some people get depression symptoms on one but not the other, and vica versa. Some people find one works and the other doesn't. Their halflives are different--Xanax being the shortest I believe--but other than that only personal comparison trials of each will tell which is best for you. One of the upsides of these drugs is that they don't require the long drawnout trials that we associate with antidepressants. If either Klonopin or Xanax is to be helpful to you, you'll know inside a week. And if one is to not be helpful, or even make you worse, you'll know that inside a week too.
If the topic here is anxiety, there are several biological chemical causes of anxiety. The benzos like Klonopin or Xanax only treat one of those several potential causes. They are the most common approaches however, but sometimes mask the problem rather than fix it.
Other causes to consider are:
Low serotonin--treated with serotonin antidepressants (Paxil, Zoloft, Serzone)
Elevated dopamine--treated with low dose antipsychotics (like Zyprexa)
Elevated norepinephrine sites--treated with an antihypertensive medicationUnfortunately we can only gather clues as to what our own personal chemistry is by assessing reactions to different drugs--either bad, neutral, good, fast, slow. A general consensus would be nice for trivia discussion, but does nothing to help us treat our own unique chemistry. Oh how I wish we had some blanket drug that just worked fine with everyone. I'm just dreaming! :-)
JohnL
Posted by Tina1 on May 29, 2000, at 13:36:31
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by JohnL on May 29, 2000, at 5:57:44
What's your OPINION on how long an AD should take to work(celexa for example)before onw should consider changing it to something else?
> > What's the general concensus--Is Klonopin better than Xanax or the other way around? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Tina,
> I'm not sure a general concensus on Konopin vs Xanax exists. As each person responds differently depending on their own unique chemistry, a general consensus isn't very helpful anyway.
>
> Some people get depression symptoms on one but not the other, and vica versa. Some people find one works and the other doesn't. Their halflives are different--Xanax being the shortest I believe--but other than that only personal comparison trials of each will tell which is best for you. One of the upsides of these drugs is that they don't require the long drawnout trials that we associate with antidepressants. If either Klonopin or Xanax is to be helpful to you, you'll know inside a week. And if one is to not be helpful, or even make you worse, you'll know that inside a week too.
>
> If the topic here is anxiety, there are several biological chemical causes of anxiety. The benzos like Klonopin or Xanax only treat one of those several potential causes. They are the most common approaches however, but sometimes mask the problem rather than fix it.
>
> Other causes to consider are:
> Low serotonin--treated with serotonin antidepressants (Paxil, Zoloft, Serzone)
> Elevated dopamine--treated with low dose antipsychotics (like Zyprexa)
> Elevated norepinephrine sites--treated with an antihypertensive medication
>
> Unfortunately we can only gather clues as to what our own personal chemistry is by assessing reactions to different drugs--either bad, neutral, good, fast, slow. A general consensus would be nice for trivia discussion, but does nothing to help us treat our own unique chemistry. Oh how I wish we had some blanket drug that just worked fine with everyone. I'm just dreaming! :-)
> JohnL
Posted by JohnL on May 30, 2000, at 3:13:15
In reply to Re:To JohnL, posted by Tina1 on May 29, 2000, at 13:36:31
> What's your OPINION on how long an AD should take to work(celexa for example)before onw should consider changing it to something else?
Tina,
As you correctly pointed out, these are my opinions:
Worsening? Abandon immediately. There's a better choice in another med. Too much risk in trying to wait it out to see if it gets better.
Some improvement? 50/50 decision...either give it more time, like up to 3 months; or abandon it only temporarily to try some other meds in the same class to be sure we are on our favorite of the bunch before continuing with longer trials. Tough decisions here.
No improvement? 6 weeks.But unless there is definite worsening of symptoms, I generally agree with the 6 week rule for most people. My own approaches with myself are a bit different--using a 2 week comparison method instead--but that's a whole different story. If not following that particular targeted strategy to a tee, the 6 week standard rules.
In my opinion. :-)
JohnL
Posted by BABatson on January 21, 2001, at 4:01:17
In reply to KLONOPIN or XANAX???, posted by Tina1 on May 27, 2000, at 20:53:43
Klonopon has the longest serum half-life [it is fat-soluable and so is stored in the fatty tissue of the brain]. Initially approved as an anti-seizure med, it is widely used to treat 'panic attack'. I found that use for more than one or two days caused increased depression, 'strong sadness', and a discomfited feeling. In my case, also, it tended to suppress deep breathing. To control, or to prevent at outset, an "average" panic epsode -- Klonopin works well from a high of 1.0 mg x 3/day to a low of 0.5 or even 0.25.
Taken when un-needed, it produced slightly uncomfortable effects in me -- it noes not have anti-depressant effects.Xanax, which I started yesterday, does not tend to depress deep breathing, but rather seems to free the chest of tension. I do not think it is going to cause 'deep sadness'. It has a medium-short half-life, Ativan having the shortest.
The results above are indeed subjective -- whether or not they tend to reflect the norm. Importance of genuine, but not burdonsome, discipline in taking benzodiazepines is a requirement; an aberrative brief urge to exceed the needful dose of this class passes just a sswiftly as it came, when one simply recognises it for what it is -- just a temporary 'blip' of the imagination, which is harmless unless "worked up" into something more than it is!
Librium is a longer lasting med of this class, and one of the first, along with Valium. I have found it preferrable for longer term use, which is why my psychiatrist prescribed it. On my own initiative, we titrated down from 3 x 25 mg, daily; to 1 x 25 mg, at bed. Librium tends to 'stack', that is, to build up in the system. I had no trouble titrating from 3 to one, over just a week's time -- this must NOT be done with Xanax or Ativan!!! For those, taper by fractional increments over several weeks at the least, ACCORDING TO PHYSICIAN'S SUPERVISION -- there is a good site online you can find, written by an MD exactly how to do this (as even some doctors may proceed too swiftly in some cases). People who abruptly discontinue Benzodiazepines --all, but especially the shorter-acting ones as mentioned -- risk sever withdrawal which can require hospitalisation and can even be life-threatening (see the anecdotal reports on the message boards).
In conclusion, as for anti-depressants, one has to be pro-active in encouraging physicians to try different medications, combinations, and dosages -- as there was a trend in the 1990s to underprescribe (apparently in reaction to over-liberal use of Valium in the '70s, and of amphetimines [which used to include myriads in the PDR!] -- in general I have found the neural transmitter enhancers to be much more desireable than the direct stimulants, and do not even use caffeine routinely -- just the occasional cup of green tea.) My experience has, thanks to the perceptive psychiatrist who added it to the SSRI Prozac, been that stimulation can be achieved by Wellbutrin [bupropione], an 'adreneurgic' sort of re-uptake inhibitor (no, it does not cause the adrenal grands to produce more adrenalin, but rather prevents re-uptake of the neural transmitter dopamine in specific sites[!] in the brain -- it is therefore much safer on the body).
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THESE IMPROMPTU REMARKS ARE SUGGESTIVE OF FURTHER MEDICAL ENGUIRY ONLY -- you might take them up with your doctor, if they interest you. ------Brooks; Eugene, Oregon
This is the end of the thread.
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