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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by boBB on May 23, 2000, at 0:49:01
In reply to Past lives, anyone?, posted by Sara T on May 22, 2000, at 22:49:28
What's wrong with this life?
I have long been a sceptic of past life regression, though for many years I could never put my finger on why. I try to be rigorously open minded about things, and practice some kinds of shamanistic behavior myself.
I might overgeneralize, and leave out some vital points here in describing mysticism, but one kind deals with the world we are part of, and how our mind perceives it, whereas another, probably far more popular kind of mysticism (in America) focuses more on our perceptions as the fabric of the world. Past life regression falls in the later group.
Some practitioners claim that channeled "entities" are real, but many, when confronted, toy with a definition of reality that makes it out to be "whatever we want it to be." Past life "channelers" have told me it does not matter whether the experience is real or not, because it seems to help people. That is a very humanistic view, but I tend to see humans as only a small part of reality, and believe my perception is only a minute fraction of the cummulative pool of willpower that creates the universe.
Ultimately, I find "reality based" magic to be more powerful. It integrates desires and needs into the stage we can all share, rather than sending our minds off into other times and other realms and claiming personal responsibility for every actor, prop and theme on the stage of our lives.
I question the ego needs of past life therapists. Not that they are much different from the wigged-out doctors mentioned in nearby threads, but some critics say channeling serves not only the need of the suplicant to enter into a inferior relationship with a spiritual authority, but that it also allows the practitioner to percieve themselves as an all-powerful and benevolent person. A transactional analysis would reveal a parent/child relationship between the channeler and the supplicant.
Ultimately, the goal of pmedicine is to integrate diverse parts of a personality into a whole person and to integrate a whole person into a concesus reality. While channeling sometimes seems to help people, I think it fragments the person and leaves them grasping for solid ground. Some, it seems, are unable to reach beyond their spirtual practice to afford practical participation in the day to day needs of the "real" world - the one where people get hungry and cold and tired and sick.
While I indulge in a bizarre range of emotional behaviors, and personally practice magical thinking with regard to things I could not have rationally effected (the weather, world events, etc.), channelling is on my list of suspicious practices. I will tell you I have experiences with things beyond my effective realm, but I will seldom ask you to beleive with me in the way I see these magical relationhsips. I might urge you to join me in a political or social agenda, and I might confide my bizare spritual practices, but I won't ask you to agree with me they are real. And I will never accept money for my magical representations. My interpersonal relationships are going to deal with Earth, and with humans made from dirt, sunlight and DNA.
For a well-considered analysis of channeling and other modern new-age spiritual practices, check out The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power, by Joel Kramer, Diana Alstad, 1993.
You might also check out TriCycle magazine, the popular Bhuddist journal. Sometime in 1998 there was an article in there that identified past-life channeling as a distinctly American phenomenon, unique from eastern Bhuddism. I would not do justice to attempt to recall the differences detailed there - my recollection is that the past life belief was something Bhuddism incorporated from earlier traditions as it spread across Asia, but a belief in the ability to channel specific personas from previous lives is not found in eastern practices.
Posted by kazoo on May 23, 2000, at 1:49:51
In reply to secret identities, posted by CarolAnn on May 22, 2000, at 9:22:49
> Here's a frivolous question. Are any of you psycho-babblers someone famous?
^^^^^^^^^
Greetings to CarolAnn.
I confess: I'm not myself, woe is I!
kazoo
Posted by JudithC on May 23, 2000, at 5:22:29
In reply to secret identities, posted by CarolAnn on May 22, 2000, at 9:22:49
Oh,my,CarolAnn,how your cyber ink does sting. You want to know if any of us are famous and incognito. As a matter of fact,I am quite famous and by coming to the BabbleBoard I felt that I could maintain my dignity yet be able to connect with like people;because Uncle Walt told me years and years ago to "keep my big ears clean and private". Trying to please everyone for years and years has taken a toll upon my cheerful self so please keep this to yourself for I am m * i * c * k * e *
Posted by CarolAnn on May 23, 2000, at 8:31:29
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by Todd on May 22, 2000, at 18:05:54
Very funny, everyone! Dove, I'm sure you will find it even more hilarious to know that I wasn't trying to be funny!!! Though, I do see the humour in it now that you pointed it out. Story of my life: Either no one "gets it" when I'm trying to be funny, or everyone thinks it's a joke when some unintentionally puerile thing escapes from my brain.
TODD!?! I had no idea!! How flattering that "The King" would take the time to insinuate himself into my lit'l ole dreams(picture my eyes peering over a fluttering fan)!
You are too cute! What a funny post! Any chance it's also you masquerading as Bono from U2? ;^)
CarolAnn
Posted by Sara T on May 23, 2000, at 9:07:30
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?, posted by boBB on May 23, 2000, at 0:49:01
> What's wrong with this life?
>
> I have long been a sceptic of past life regression, though for many years I could never put my finger on why. I try to be rigorously open minded about things, and practice some kinds of shamanistic behavior myself.
>
> I might overgeneralize, and leave out some vital points here in describing mysticism, but one kind deals with the world we are part of, and how our mind perceives it, whereas another, probably far more popular kind of mysticism (in America) focuses more on our perceptions as the fabric of the world. Past life regression falls in the later group.
>
> Some practitioners claim that channeled "entities" are real, but many, when confronted, toy with a definition of reality that makes it out to be "whatever we want it to be." Past life "channelers" have told me it does not matter whether the experience is real or not, because it seems to help people. That is a very humanistic view, but I tend to see humans as only a small part of reality, and believe my perception is only a minute fraction of the cummulative pool of willpower that creates the universe.
>
> Ultimately, I find "reality based" magic to be more powerful. It integrates desires and needs into the stage we can all share, rather than sending our minds off into other times and other realms and claiming personal responsibility for every actor, prop and theme on the stage of our lives.
>
> I question the ego needs of past life therapists. Not that they are much different from the wigged-out doctors mentioned in nearby threads, but some critics say channeling serves not only the need of the suplicant to enter into a inferior relationship with a spiritual authority, but that it also allows the practitioner to percieve themselves as an all-powerful and benevolent person. A transactional analysis would reveal a parent/child relationship between the channeler and the supplicant.
>
> Ultimately, the goal of pmedicine is to integrate diverse parts of a personality into a whole person and to integrate a whole person into a concesus reality. While channeling sometimes seems to help people, I think it fragments the person and leaves them grasping for solid ground. Some, it seems, are unable to reach beyond their spirtual practice to afford practical participation in the day to day needs of the "real" world - the one where people get hungry and cold and tired and sick.
>
> While I indulge in a bizarre range of emotional behaviors, and personally practice magical thinking with regard to things I could not have rationally effected (the weather, world events, etc.), channelling is on my list of suspicious practices. I will tell you I have experiences with things beyond my effective realm, but I will seldom ask you to beleive with me in the way I see these magical relationhsips. I might urge you to join me in a political or social agenda, and I might confide my bizare spritual practices, but I won't ask you to agree with me they are real. And I will never accept money for my magical representations. My interpersonal relationships are going to deal with Earth, and with humans made from dirt, sunlight and DNA.
>
> For a well-considered analysis of channeling and other modern new-age spiritual practices, check out The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power, by Joel Kramer, Diana Alstad, 1993.
>
> You might also check out TriCycle magazine, the popular Bhuddist journal. Sometime in 1998 there was an article in there that identified past-life channeling as a distinctly American phenomenon, unique from eastern Bhuddism. I would not do justice to attempt to recall the differences detailed there - my recollection is that the past life belief was something Bhuddism incorporated from earlier traditions as it spread across Asia, but a belief in the ability to channel specific personas from previous lives is not found in eastern practices.boBB
Wow, your analysis of Regression therapy and how reincarnation beliefs in the East are quite different is very good, although on a more serious note than my post was intended. I myself do not remember any past lives nor do I dabble in mysticism. (I did have a Ouija board as a teenager).I actually agree with what you said. I tend to be and want to be in the here and now. I have alot of trouble with the idea of a diety (God)as being an all seeing, all powerful BEING. I do believe that the Universe is alot bigger than we are and that we are all connected to it because we are all made up of the energy and physical matter the stars and planets are made of. So I guess in that since we are also connected to the past, present and future.
I have lived in Latin America and during the Contra War in Central America I went to a refugee camp and I have worked in squatter settlements there too. I have seen what poverty does to people. One thing is striking. That is the inroads that many of the more Fundamentalist Protestant churches are making on what used to be totally Roman Catholic populations. Why? Because the Catholic church used religion and mysticism to pasify the people and the newer churches are actually going out and providing people with the help they need to build shelters, medical care, dental care, food, clothing, etc. I
I have a problem with it being a religious organization that's providing those things instead of the gov'ts of those countries, but if I were as destitute as they are, I would be thanking God in their church too.
Back to Regression therapy. I don't see it as Shamanism, which has a long history. I see it more like a recycled version of the same Mysticism that was popular around the turn of the century. Houdini exposed many of the mediums for the frauds they were. I imagine many channelers are making a living off some very vulnerable people. But it could be fun to imagine what one might have been.
Sara T.
Posted by Noa on May 23, 2000, at 9:15:41
In reply to Re: I'm not, but..., posted by boBB on May 22, 2000, at 21:07:54
> Noa, you are obviously too well educated to be Elian. If he had your smarts, he would not have let his mother take him to sea on such an unseaworthy vessel.
no, but you gotta admit, I need this place for my ptsd.
Posted by dove on May 23, 2000, at 10:39:48
In reply to Re: tsk...you guyyys! especially Dove and Todd, posted by CarolAnn on May 23, 2000, at 8:31:29
To the sweet CarolAnn,
I'm sorry if I took your post for jocularity when it was intended for seriousness, it just seemed to much to ask for some of us silly babblers :-) Thanks for not being perturbed or offended, I really enjoy the many original subjects you cook up. So go forward, ignoring the nuts sitting in the peanut gallery if you can :-) Hugs for you!!!
dove
Posted by CarolAnn on May 23, 2000, at 13:06:46
In reply to Re: tsk...you guyyys! especially Dove and Todd, posted by dove on May 23, 2000, at 10:39:48
Dove, of course I wasn't perturbed or offended. It really wasn't intended as a serious post, I did mean it to lighten things up a little. However, I really was curious and seriously expected at least one true admittance of fame or notoriety. I always realize(after someone points it out), that I've unintentionally made a joke. Unfortunealy, this inspires me to periodically attempt real(on purpose) jokes, which either fall flat or have to be explained, due to my offbeat sense of humour. I think I am humour impaired. I AM very glad anytime I can make anyone at psycho-babble laugh, although, I know I've fallen flat a few times here too. I'll probably keep trying though, so you'll all have to wade thru the bad stuff to get to the very infrequent funny stuff! Smiles to Dove and all the rest of you too! CarolAnn
Posted by Adam on May 23, 2000, at 18:12:09
In reply to secret identities, posted by CarolAnn on May 22, 2000, at 9:22:49
"Fame, fame, fatal Fame
It can play hideous tricks on the brain
But still I'd rather be Famous
Than righteous or holy, any day..."
> Here's a frivolous question. Are any of you psycho-babblers someone famous? I know, it's stupid, but I was just thinking about how celebrities aways say that they have favorite internet sites that they visit incognito, and I had the thought that there must be some famous people who have our type of problems, so maybe they're here and we just don't know who they are.
> How 'bout it? You don't have to say who you are, just tell us(in general) what you are famous for. Or don't, you could just tell me to shut up and stop wasteing space on dumb stuff like this! CarolAnn
Posted by allisonm on May 23, 2000, at 19:34:17
In reply to secret identities, posted by CarolAnn on May 22, 2000, at 9:22:49
I'm not a real famous person, I just play one on TV...
I have been accused of being Lewis Carroll's muse, but that would mean it happened in a previous life and I'm not willing to accept that I'm actually here again.
The closest I ever got to famous was when Brad Pitt and I attended the same university at the same time, but that was before HE was famous, so it doesn't count. However, I do know Mitch Miller and once I got to pick Garrison Keillor up at the airport. Does that count? ;->
Posted by Renee N on May 23, 2000, at 22:15:58
In reply to Past lives, anyone?, posted by Sara T on May 22, 2000, at 22:49:28
I remember in late grade school I read a biography on Martha Washington and for several months I had the strange feeling that I had been her in a previous life. Has anyone else gone through this type of thing? (Please say yes!!);^0
Posted by boBB on May 23, 2000, at 22:38:04
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?, posted by Renee N on May 23, 2000, at 22:15:58
> I remember in late grade school I read a biography on Martha Washington and for several months I had the strange feeling that I had been her in a previous life. Has anyone else gone through this type of thing? (Please say yes!!);^0
Well, for me to compare that to my dreams of flying would be stretch, but feeling as if someting is so does not make it being so. Perhaps I unnessecarily obviate. IMHO, channelers misguide and even exploit their clients when they endulge these feelings of identification with a pretense of reality.
After reading Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, I strongly identified with Frodo, on his way to toss the ring of power into the fires of Mordor. It was a time in my life when I needed some direction. I still enjoy the symbolism, but I don't have hairy feet, and probably none of my ancestors have for many, many generations. But I still embrace the concept that I might toss that ring of power into the fire from whence it was made. Grandiose, no?
Posted by Renee N on May 24, 2000, at 8:18:32
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?, posted by boBB on May 23, 2000, at 22:38:04
>
> Well, for me to compare that to my dreams of flying would be stretch, but feeling as if someting is so does not make it being so.
Bob,
I had dreams more of being able to kind of float or hover several feet high, and everyone was amazed. It felt quite natural. The dreams were very real feeling. Sometimes I forgot they were just dreams. I'm sorry that I now never forget anymore...>
> After reading Tolkien's Lord of the Rings,
Bob,
My 6th grade teacher was the best! She read The Hobbit to us and we made all kinds of murals about it and other projects. It really came alive for us. I loved it, but my memory is bad, I don't recall the story very well now.
Fantasy is fun, but I don't buy in to any of the past lives stuff. I think these people prey on the weak. Renee N
Posted by harry b. on May 24, 2000, at 9:11:17
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?, posted by Renee N on May 24, 2000, at 8:18:32
> Bob,
> I had dreams more of being able to kind of float or hover several feet high, and everyone was amazed. It felt quite natural. The dreams were very real feeling. Sometimes I forgot they were just dreams. I'm sorry that I now never forget anymore...
Flying has been a part of my dreams and fantasies
from the time I was in grade school. Finally, about
15 yrs ago, I got my pilot's license. Straight &
level is OK but I gravitated toward the more rowdy,
risky, and exuberant realm. I've been flying
aerobatics for 10 yrs. Began regional competitions
5 or 6 yrs ago. Pulling and pushing G's and watching
the earth and sky change positions as I loop, roll
and spin is more addicting than any drug.There is another recurring dream I have.
It's not as frequent now but it is still great fun.
Similar to your's, Renee. I am at the top of a steep
slope. I can leap, initially, 20' or so down the
slope. With each leap I can go farther and farther
until I am bounding hundreds of feet at a time. The
sensation is similar to flying, but more like I
percieve walking on the moon would be. I too used
to think that I could really do this.
Posted by Renee N on May 25, 2000, at 0:25:54
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?-No, but dreams, posted by harry b. on May 24, 2000, at 9:11:17
Harry,
It's wonderful to hear of something that you love to do! Do it as often as you can.
i once got to take over the controls of a small plane for a couple of minutes and loved it. I'd like to ride in a helicoopter sometime. I'm chicken of hot air balloons. Skydiving seems great, but they'd definitely have to push me out of the plane! 8^) Renee N
Posted by kazoo on May 25, 2000, at 1:31:27
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by kazoo on May 23, 2000, at 1:49:51
> > Here's a frivolous question. Are any of you psycho-babblers someone famous?
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
> Greetings to CarolAnn.
> I confess: I'm not myself, woe is I!
> kazoo^^^^^^^^^^^
I confess (again): I'm not "harry b." ... snicker, snicker!
Woe is he!
Greetings to harry b. :-)
kazoo
Posted by harry b. on May 25, 2000, at 12:52:11
In reply to Re: secret identities - PART DOOZIE, posted by kazoo on May 25, 2000, at 1:31:27
> > > Here's a frivolous question. Are any of you psycho-babblers someone famous?
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Greetings to CarolAnn.
> > I confess: I'm not myself, woe is I!
> > kazoo
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I confess (again): I'm not "harry b." ... snicker, snicker!
> Woe is he!
> Greetings to harry b. :-)
> kazooWait a minute. Quick, go look in a mirror and tell
me (yourself? us?) what you (I? we?) see.
Greetings to ourselves
harry b. (we think)
Posted by bob on May 25, 2000, at 14:52:32
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by allisonm on May 23, 2000, at 19:34:17
> The closest I ever got to famous was when Brad Pitt and I attended the same university at the same time, but that was before HE was famous, so it doesn't count. However, I do know Mitch Miller and once I got to pick Garrison Keillor up at the airport. Does that count? ;->
Well, now, if we're going to count brushes with greatness ... I once almost stepped on Jane Pauley ... Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan almost sat on me once (*that* was frightening) ... plus, I almost knocked both Sylvester Stallone (runt that he is) and Armand Assante flat in the same crosswalk (57th and Broadway) but several years apart ... hey! they were walking in MY space, who cares who they are?!
cheers,
bob
Posted by allisonm on May 25, 2000, at 17:27:16
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by bob on May 25, 2000, at 14:52:32
>> hey! they were walking in MY space, who cares who they are?!<<
My ex-husband bumped James Watt (the infamous secretary of the interior, remember him?) in the behind with one end of my mountain dulcimer at National Airport back in the early-80s. After we figured out who he was we were really sorry he didn't bump Watt a WHOLE LOT harder! I gladly would have sacrificed my instrument for the national park system.
Posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:52:55
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by allisonm on May 25, 2000, at 17:27:16
LOL!!!
Ok, don't remember who it was there, but someone just opened up a whole new tangent.....
Been within 20 feet of Vince Vaughn....he's very tall.
Been within spittin distance of James Earl Jones....he's old.
Saw Jill Clayburgh filming at my college....felt obligated to stay through through the entire movie when it came out, even though everyone else in the theater walked out about a third of the way through.
Saw Ralph Nader crossing the street, laden down with a huge pile of file folders.....looked like an ordinary work-a-day suit guy.
Saw Gene Shallet at the movies once.....kinda bizarre looking fellow in person.
Got stuck in an elevator with Paul Newman once......ooops, sorry, I guess we're only telling about real stuff, huh?
Posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:56:58
In reply to Re: secret identities, posted by allisonm on May 25, 2000, at 17:27:16
Aha!! so that was YOU!! My butt hasn't been the same since. Grrrr....I never understood why Dutch didn't give me better travel priveleges. Look what happens when you make me mingle with the masses!! Grrrr
Posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:58:30
In reply to Re: bumping dulcimers, posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:56:58
OOOOOOOPS.......shouldn't done that......guess the cat's outta the bag on my secret identity now.....
Posted by harry b. on May 25, 2000, at 20:03:46
In reply to Re: bumping dulcimers, posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:56:58
Mine are more hum-drum than most:Ate lunch in DC, James Carvelle (sp) was at the
table next to mine.Used to know a close relative of Jackie O.
Met & shook hands with General Alexander Haig (Nixon years)
Ah, saw an ex Governor of Pa. naked (god why did I say that?)
I've met most of the top names in aerobatics and
airshows
Posted by harry b. on May 26, 2000, at 11:26:16
In reply to Re: Past lives, anyone?-No, but dreams, posted by Renee N on May 25, 2000, at 0:25:54
> Harry,
> It's wonderful to hear of something that you love to do! Do it as often as you can.
> i once got to take over the controls of a small plane for a couple of minutes and loved it. I'd like to ride in a helicoopter sometime. I'm chicken of hot air balloons. Skydiving seems great, but they'd definitely have to push me out of the plane! 8^) Renee NRenee- Glad to hear you liked your experience as
a pilot. Helicoptors are known as 'fling-wings'.
They are OK but too many moving parts for me.Why not hot air balloons? They are whimsical in that
you are at the mercy of the wind, but are very
peaceful, until the burner roars.I used to sky dive, and yes they had to almost
push me out the first few times. The free fall is
a rush, the canopy ride is very relaxed.Take Care
Posted by allisonm on May 26, 2000, at 19:19:58
In reply to Re: bumping dulcimers, posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 17:56:58
>> Aha!! so that was YOU!! My butt hasn't been the same since.<<
Yeah, Mr. Watt. Shoulda had my HAMMERED DULCIMER with me at National, dam it. Then more than yer butt woulda been "transformed."
Best regards,
an insignificant one in the masses
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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