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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ella on May 2, 2000, at 10:35:03
Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed. It felt like someone understood me for the first time. I have had 3 marriages and sabotaged the first one, second was so abusive and the third is a wonderful man who encourages me to seek help but I find there are times I push him to the limit to see if he will leave me. I was sexually abused as a child by my stepfather and told my Mother who said she did believe me but couldn't leave him because she couldn't support us. I resented her for years for that and only now as she is in her mid 60's do i find i can stand to be around her but hate to touch her. I am overweight and eat impulsively not from hunger. feel like a ball of mess at times and other times can see the light and try to function as normal as i can. Of course, not sure what normal is. I've seen people who drive broke down cars with nothing and they seem happy why can't I be happy? I mean completely happy. is anyone? I am now on Celexa and feel more in control and not so out of control but don't feel like I want to be. Any help would be appreciated.
Ella
Posted by tina on May 2, 2000, at 11:25:12
In reply to treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Ella on May 2, 2000, at 10:35:03
Ella: Your story is very similar to mine except it was my step-grandfather not my step-father. I didn't talk about my experience until I was eighteen and the man was dead. I've been married for 7 years and I'm amazed that my husband hangs around. I've been pushing him away on a regular basis for the entire time. He is a very good man and I keep trying to convince myself that I deserve him but the irrational part of my mind feels that I don't deserve to be happy in this lifetime. I have a rocky relationship with my mom, we argue and test eachother all the time because I think she feels guilty that I couldn't talk to her about this until I was grown and I resent her for not protecting me from this man. We try to overcome it but it's very hard when she refuses to discuss it saying it's in the past and that I should just get over it. My husband is very encouraging in the help department too but sometimes I just want everyone to go away and leave me in my misery. I just don't want to hurt anyone by my behavior and I can't deal with the guilt when I do hurt them. Mind over matter is very big in my family so I always feel like the black sheep. I've been on the celexa for a week now. The side effects are hell but I have to admit that I am feeling a little better. Hang in there and come here a lot, it's very helpful having this support group. I haven't been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder just general can't live my life syndrome but I think you're taking a step in the right direction. Keep in touch.
> Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed. It felt like someone understood me for the first time. I have had 3 marriages and sabotaged the first one, second was so abusive and the third is a wonderful man who encourages me to seek help but I find there are times I push him to the limit to see if he will leave me. I was sexually abused as a child by my stepfather and told my Mother who said she did believe me but couldn't leave him because she couldn't support us. I resented her for years for that and only now as she is in her mid 60's do i find i can stand to be around her but hate to touch her. I am overweight and eat impulsively not from hunger. feel like a ball of mess at times and other times can see the light and try to function as normal as i can. Of course, not sure what normal is. I've seen people who drive broke down cars with nothing and they seem happy why can't I be happy? I mean completely happy. is anyone? I am now on Celexa and feel more in control and not so out of control but don't feel like I want to be. Any help would be appreciated.
> Ella
Posted by ella on May 2, 2000, at 18:02:32
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by tina on May 2, 2000, at 11:25:12
> Ella: Your story is very similar to mine except it was my step-grandfather not my step-father. I didn't talk about my experience until I was eighteen and the man was dead. I've been married for 7 years and I'm amazed that my husband hangs around. I've been pushing him away on a regular basis for the entire time. He is a very good man and I keep trying to convince myself that I deserve him but the irrational part of my mind feels that I don't deserve to be happy in this lifetime. I have a rocky relationship with my mom, we argue and test eachother all the time because I think she feels guilty that I couldn't talk to her about this until I was grown and I resent her for not protecting me from this man. We try to overcome it but it's very hard when she refuses to discuss it saying it's in the past and that I should just get over it. My husband is very encouraging in the help department too but sometimes I just want everyone to go away and leave me in my misery. I just don't want to hurt anyone by my behavior and I can't deal with the guilt when I do hurt them. Mind over matter is very big in my family so I always feel like the black sheep. I've been on the celexa for a week now. The side effects are hell but I have to admit that I am feeling a little better. Hang in there and come here a lot, it's very helpful having this support group. I haven't been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder just general can't live my life syndrome but I think you're taking a step in the right direction. Keep in touch.
>
>
>
> > Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed. It felt like someone understood me for the first time. I have had 3 marriages and sabotaged the first one, second was so abusive and the third is a wonderful man who encourages me to seek help but I find there are times I push him to the limit to see if he will leave me. I was sexually abused as a child by my stepfather and told my Mother who said she did believe me but couldn't leave him because she couldn't support us. I resented her for years for that and only now as she is in her mid 60's do i find i can stand to be around her but hate to touch her. I am overweight and eat impulsively not from hunger. feel like a ball of mess at times and other times can see the light and try to function as normal as i can. Of course, not sure what normal is. I've seen people who drive broke down cars with nothing and they seem happy why can't I be happy? I mean completely happy. is anyone? I am now on Celexa and feel more in control and not so out of control but don't feel like I want to be. Any help would be appreciated.
> > EllaThanks for the encouragement Tina. It's amazing how screwed up your life can be because of how we were raised. Here we have the opportunities to have a better life and happiness and the past haunts us. I make sure my Mom is taken care of, Dr appts, medicine, but never would i kiss her or hug her. No thanks. The resentment is too much. I just wish I could get on with my life and learn to start anew. Is this what the SSRI's help with? Replace the Seratonin and give you better thinking skills? I too am now on Celexa. Will keep you posted and you do the same.
ella
Posted by stjames on May 2, 2000, at 18:46:49
In reply to treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Ella on May 2, 2000, at 10:35:03
> Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed.
James here....
Meds are just part of the effective treatment for BPD. Are you doing any talk therpy ?
james
Posted by ella on May 2, 2000, at 19:01:46
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by stjames on May 2, 2000, at 18:46:49
> > Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed.
>
> James here....
>
> Meds are just part of the effective treatment for BPD. Are you doing any talk therpy ?
>
> jamesnot anything yet other than Celexa. Need something. Am going to Border's tonight to try and find some reading material also. Does Cognitive Behavior Therapy work for this also??
Posted by Mark H. on May 3, 2000, at 7:52:13
In reply to treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Ella on May 2, 2000, at 10:35:03
I'd like to read a definition and description from someone who has it and accepts that diagnosis as accurate. Often the subjective understanding is more useful than the dryness of the DSM IV. Can you describe it?
Many thanks,
Mark H.
Posted by FP on May 4, 2000, at 0:16:21
In reply to treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Ella on May 2, 2000, at 10:35:03
> Is SSRI's a treatment for BPD? It's like the door was opened when I was diagnosed. It felt like someone understood me for the first time. I have had 3 marriages and sabotaged the first one, second was so abusive and the third is a wonderful man who encourages me to seek help but I find there are times I push him to the limit to see if he will leave me. I was sexually abused as a child by my stepfather and told my Mother who said she did believe me but couldn't leave him because she couldn't support us. I resented her for years for that and only now as she is in her mid 60's do i find i can stand to be around her but hate to touch her. I am overweight and eat impulsively not from hunger. feel like a ball of mess at times and other times can see the light and try to function as normal as i can. Of course, not sure what normal is. I've seen people who drive broke down cars with nothing and they seem happy why can't I be happy? I mean completely happy. is anyone? I am now on Celexa and feel more in control and not so out of control but don't feel like I want to be. Any help would be appreciated.
> EllaOh Lordy, that's a touch one. My wife went through a similiar experience, including the strained relationship with her father (her mother was the abuser), and longtime depression, anxiety attacks, night panics, various forms of self defeating behaviour, etc.
But, back to the topic: I would question your diagnosis. When my wife and I researched this topic, (childhood abuse survivors) we found that BPD was a kind of "dumping ground" diagnosis, applied mainly to women, and meant, essentially, "this person is hopeless; just try to make them comfortable."
Another possible diagnosis for an abuse survivor might be "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome." This may be treated with SSRIs, tranquilizers, sleep meds, and - usually - a couple of years of talking it out.
My advice, for what it's worth: SSRI's may help; but if your pDoc has really diagnosed you as BPD, leave him, find a new pDoc, and never mention that you saw the first pDoc. BPD is the "ghetto" of diagnoseses - what "hysteria" was to the 19th century.
Posted by stjames on May 4, 2000, at 15:04:44
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by FP on May 4, 2000, at 0:16:21
> Oh Lordy, that's a touch one. My wife went through a similiar experience, including the strained relationship with her father (her mother was the abuser), and longtime depression, anxiety attacks, night panics, various forms of self defeating behaviour, etc.
>
> But, back to the topic: I would question your diagnosis. When my wife and I researched this topic, (childhood abuse survivors) we found that BPD was a kind of "dumping ground" diagnosis, applied mainly to women, and meant, essentially, "this person is hopeless; just try to make them comfortable."
>
James here....BPD is a real condition in some people and also serves as a catch all. The name is often misunderstood, the word borderline means that the condition overlaps other conditions not that the personality is iffy. Perhaps "Personality Disorder with Borderline features " might be better. The Dx grew from doc's seeing patients that seemed to be many things, psychotic at times, depressed at times, ect. Most were women and abused in early life. Sometimes this condition is seen w/o abuse but this is less
common.BPD proves what we have long suspected, that if you put a normie in abusive situations for a long time they will get clinical mental conditions.
It does get used as a catch all but there are lots of people who are a mixture or just confusing
as to what condition they really have. The danger is missing another disorder and calling it BPD.Whatever you call it when there is abuse it needs to be treated. Books are not enough, but they are a start. Several years with a good talk theripist
is always indicated. Meds can help make present life better but whenever there is abuse it does not get better with meds alone nor does Dr Time fix things. They tend to get worse every year w/o real treatment, all the while creating chaos in personal relationships.james
Posted by Noa on May 5, 2000, at 15:26:22
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by stjames on May 4, 2000, at 15:04:44
On the other hand, recent research is suggesting many women with this dx have a rapid cycling cylothymia, ie a mood disorder that fluctuates frequently, and can be interpreted as a personality instability, or alternatively, as a mood disorder. It is likely that many women with symptoms suggesting BPD have both a predisposition to a mood disorder of the rapid cycling type, as well as the traumatic or conflictual upbringings.
Posted by Noa on May 5, 2000, at 15:51:07
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by stjames on May 4, 2000, at 15:04:44
There are approaches out there for treating people with this dx that focus primarily on current coping skills, and take the emphasis off the past. Skills such as identifying, building and maintaining healthy boundaries, building structure in your life, becoming aware of negative thought patterns (this is the cognitive component), skills for expressing, diverting, managing emotions, etc. There is one therapist that wrote a book about a group approach, using these cognitive behavioral approaches. It includes structured contracts for safety, etc. I' sorry, I don't remember the author or title.
Focusing on skills implies hopefulness, I think.
I think it is important to remember, too, that any diagnosis is simply an man-made construct meant to help think about the problems the person has and how to help them. There exists in nature no such entity as a borderline personality. Heck, we can barely agree as to what personality is anyway. BPD has become a dumping ground dx in many cases. Often it is the people presenting with difficult to treat problems, which can be frustrating for the doctors, especially with frequent regressions in progress made. Also, having a shared label often seems to imply more similarity than difference, when in fact, there is usually more that is different and unique about each person given such a diagnosis than what they share in common. In the end, although a label might help to organize a way to think about problems, the individuals involved have unique sets of difficulties.
The other aspect to BPD that is bothersome is that having a problem with one's personality does seem to imply that their problems won't change unless the persons themselves are made to be different at the core than who they are. Well, gee, there is nothing like creating a sense of safety for good treatment than to start off implying that the person's true self IS the problem, rather than seeing as the person EXPERIENCING or SUFFERING problems. While you can make a good argument that a certain group of symptoms and problems can be clustered in a shared dx, I think a CHANGE in language, and in conceptualization, is in order. The words and concepts in the label, BPD, are inherited from decades ago, when a very narrow view of personality development was widespread. While those ideas about personality development can still be useful and valid, we know a whole lot more now about how complex personlity development is, and that trying to understand personality development requires looking at it from a number of perspectives, not just from ego psychology. So I would like to see a new label for this dx, one which better describes a cluster of symptoms, rather than suggests a theoretical, unproved, origin of the problems.
Posted by grrrilla on May 5, 2000, at 19:25:43
In reply to Re: treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Noa on May 5, 2000, at 15:51:07
> There are approaches out there for treating people with this dx that focus primarily on current coping skills, and take the emphasis off the past. Skills such as identifying, building and maintaining healthy boundaries, building structure in your life, becoming aware of negative thought patterns (this is the cognitive component), skills for expressing, diverting, managing emotions, etc. There is one therapist that wrote a book about a group approach, using these cognitive behavioral approaches. It includes structured contracts for safety, etc. I' sorry, I don't remember the author or title.
>
> Focusing on skills implies hopefulness, I think.
>
> I think it is important to remember, too, that any diagnosis is simply an man-made construct meant to help think about the problems the person has and how to help them. There exists in nature no such entity as a borderline personality. Heck, we can barely agree as to what personality is anyway. BPD has become a dumping ground dx in many cases. Often it is the people presenting with difficult to treat problems, which can be frustrating for the doctors, especially with frequent regressions in progress made. Also, having a shared label often seems to imply more similarity than difference, when in fact, there is usually more that is different and unique about each person given such a diagnosis than what they share in common. In the end, although a label might help to organize a way to think about problems, the individuals involved have unique sets of difficulties.
>
> The other aspect to BPD that is bothersome is that having a problem with one's personality does seem to imply that their problems won't change unless the persons themselves are made to be different at the core than who they are. Well, gee, there is nothing like creating a sense of safety for good treatment than to start off implying that the person's true self IS the problem, rather than seeing as the person EXPERIENCING or SUFFERING problems. While you can make a good argument that a certain group of symptoms and problems can be clustered in a shared dx, I think a CHANGE in language, and in conceptualization, is in order. The words and concepts in the label, BPD, are inherited from decades ago, when a very narrow view of personality development was widespread. While those ideas about personality development can still be useful and valid, we know a whole lot more now about how complex personlity development is, and that trying to understand personality development requires looking at it from a number of perspectives, not just from ego psychology. So I would like to see a new label for this dx, one which better describes a cluster of symptoms, rather than suggests a theoretical, unproved, origin of the problems.Thanks for writing all this. It's exactly what I think. I hope your days of feeling better didn't end when you went back to work.
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