![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sue on April 22, 2000, at 13:47:13
Does anyone know of any studies done on smoking pot and taking anti-depressants?
Posted by Cam W. on April 23, 2000, at 23:24:48
In reply to Drugs and anti-depressants, posted by Sue on April 22, 2000, at 13:47:13
> Does anyone know of any studies done on smoking pot and taking anti-depressants?
Sue - The studies have probably been done, but the researchers are just to apathetic to finish writing the articles =^) There may be studies, but I have not come across them.
Actually, I am sure there are many on this board who have experimented (or are experimenting) with that combination. I know of some people with schizophrenia and depression, who do take antidepressants with pot on a regular basis. Almost every time a couple of these people go on a marijuana binge they seem to have a psychotic relapse (but was it the marijuana that caused the relapse or were they self medicating to try to avoid a relapse?).
Many people with bipolar disorder have claim that marijuana had caused their 'first break'. They ended up mania due to something called 'cannabis psychosis'.
For someone with run-of-the-mill, regular Major Depressive Disorder (makes it sound quaint, doesn't it), I have not heard of any relapses or if the pot has done any good. The munchies may add to the weight gain and the marijuana-induced apathy can't help mood much.
The above are just observations that I have noticed in practice. They are not controlled studies or even case studies, so cannot be taken as such.
Don't know if this helps or not - Cam W.
Posted by Sue on April 24, 2000, at 1:23:54
In reply to Drugs and anti-depressants, posted by Sue on April 22, 2000, at 13:47:13
Thanks for your input. I'm new to all this, so I'm not sure about a lot of things. When I read some of these messages, I think there's more to my depression than what meets the eye. I've had continuous problems trying to find competent medical treatment because I'm on mass health. I've always thought I had just a common regular depression like you mentioned, but it has also been suggested by another doctor I may be bi-polar. What is the difference, and what did you mean when you said "first break"? Thanks. Sue
Posted by Cam W. on April 24, 2000, at 6:44:02
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by Sue on April 24, 2000, at 1:23:54
Sue - The difference between bipolar disorder and unipolar depression is that in bipolar disorder you have mood swings (usually) from mania (or hypomania-a not as noticeable or severe mania) to depression (either mild or profound). Bipolar illness runs on a continuum from very manic with little depression to very slight (or almost non-existent) mania and profound depression; or differing degrees of each. Everyone is different.Unipolar depression is a state of your entire body system being "depressed" or a chemical imbalance that gives you that "down" feeling with few or no periods of feeling energized or "normal".
First break usually signifies the first real manic episode (or sometimes depressive episode) that occurs in bipolar disorder. Most people have their first break in late adolescence or early adulthood, although it can happen earlier or later.
I am not a doctor, but this is my take on it. Hopefully someone else can add to the distinction between the 2 disorders. - Cam W.
Posted by boB on April 24, 2000, at 22:43:40
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by Cam W. on April 24, 2000, at 6:44:02
Several of my friends use antidepressants and marijuana. My experience has been that some sort of mood disorder often follows when chronic users are unable to get a supply of marijuana.
Many of the traits attributed to marijuana, especially apathy but also a distorted sense of time and distance, are more like caricatures than they are consistant with what I see in the many users I have known. As Cam sited the delima of not knowing if the psychosis was a result of pot, or if pot was used to self-medicate an impending psychotic episode, the same goes for apathy. Many, many pot users I known have a cultural belief that we as consumers are making, using and doing too much. They are not apathetic as much as they are concerned about an overstimulated environment.
A common treatment center argument claims that, if a person makes themselves happy with drugs, they will not persue happiness by trying to succeed in a "normal" way, such as career, education, etc. But pot users I have known (some, not all) find pot to be a viable alternative to what they percieve as unhealthy capitalist cultural motivations.
Posted by Kathie on April 25, 2000, at 23:33:43
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by boB on April 24, 2000, at 22:43:40
I must disagree with you on this one Bob! I am married to a chronic pot user...and not one little bit thrilled about it either!....and I can tell you that saying they are against "an overstimulated envirnment" is just not right at all. Unless it is their excuse to not get off their butts! Pot can be a depressant in itself, I see it everyday, I see what years and years of use does to a person. The lack of interest in life, of motivation of everything! My husband functions fine at work, comes home..has a hoot..and he is done for the rest of the night. Vegetates in front of the TV until he falls asleep. That is his life, on weekends he adds drinking to the combination and spends the "next day" growly as a bear, eating and vegetating on the couch..of course he is self medicating with pot, thinking somewhere in his scrambled brain that he feels better for it! Sheesh!!
Kathie
Posted by harry b. on April 26, 2000, at 0:56:46
In reply to BoB....come ON!!!, posted by Kathie on April 25, 2000, at 23:33:43
Boy, I was going to avoid this, but..........
I have a 'friend' who uses pot, as he describes it,
therapeutically. He never uses it during the day,
nor does he party or get way stoned. He has one
inhalation before bedtime. This relaxes him and
enables sleep.When he began using ADs he stopped the MJ use.
After a period of frustration with the meds he
began using it again. Upon begining to use it,
his therapist remarked that he looked more 'bright'
and alert than he had in a number of weeks.I don't think he ever considered its use as an
antidote to 'an over stimulated environment' or as
his way of dealing with 'unhealthy capitalist
cultural motivations' (although I like this
reasoning).
Posted by Brenda on April 26, 2000, at 12:40:54
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by boB on April 24, 2000, at 22:43:40
> Several of my friends use antidepressants and marijuana. My experience has been that some sort of mood disorder often follows when chronic users are unable to get a supply of marijuana.
>
> Many of the traits attributed to marijuana, especially apathy but also a distorted sense of time and distance, are more like caricatures than they are consistant with what I see in the many users I have known. As Cam sited the delima of not knowing if the psychosis was a result of pot, or if pot was used to self-medicate an impending psychotic episode, the same goes for apathy. Many, many pot users I known have a cultural belief that we as consumers are making, using and doing too much. They are not apathetic as much as they are concerned about an overstimulated environment.
>Dear boB,
The following claim by some/not all of your pot user friends is ludicrous.
> A common treatment center argument claims that, if a person makes themselves happy with drugs, they will not persue happiness by trying to succeed in a "normal" way, such as career, education, etc. But pot users I have known (some, not all) find pot to be a viable alternative to what they percieve as unhealthy capitalist cultural motivations.As a daily chronic pot smoker for over five years (before I quit) I can assure you I never thought about any kind of capitalist-prompted motivation to continue smoking. It's an addiction. A very dangerous addiction which leads to psychosis. In fact, the psychosis can easily mirror a thought disorder. Of all my addictions - smoking pot was the most difficult to quit - with the severest side effects. Alcohol, speed, etc., were a walk in the park by comparison. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to smoke dope, just don't sugar coat it with claims of quelling our environmentally overactive overstimulated society.
Brenda
Posted by saint james on April 26, 2000, at 12:56:16
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by Brenda on April 26, 2000, at 12:40:54
I smoke pot, have for years. None of my Pdoc's have ever had a problem with it.
james
Posted by Sue on April 26, 2000, at 13:46:36
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by saint james on April 26, 2000, at 12:56:16
Thanks everybody for expressing your experiences with pot. I notice James mentioned he informed his doctor that he was using pot. Do you think I should tell my doctor about my use of pot, or should I keep that to myself? I really don't want to be lectured about it, but I worry that my AD won't work properly or something because of it.
Thanks everybody.
Posted by Phil on April 26, 2000, at 17:01:09
In reply to Re: Marijuana and anti-depressants, posted by Brenda on April 26, 2000, at 12:40:54
> Brenda, I agree that pot is a tough one to quit but if your use of it caused worse side effects than speed and alcohol, you must have been smoking some bad ass weed.
I have never seen anyone damaged by pot to the extent of what alcohol and speed are capable of.
Phil
Posted by Mark H. on April 26, 2000, at 19:00:41
In reply to BoB....come ON!!!, posted by Kathie on April 25, 2000, at 23:33:43
Please remember that boB's job is to stir things up here, and if you correspond with him, you'll find that his motivations are noble and compassionate. He's not trying to be divisive -- he's trying to help us all "think outside the box." (I know that is becoming a trite phrase, if only from my overuse of it, but I don't know how else to describe what boB does in as concise a way.) I always value boB's contributions, even when I disagree with him.
Marijuana treats different people very differently -- so much so that if you read 10 people's descriptions, you might not even believe they were talking about the same substance.
For example, even when I was young and determined to smoke pot, it always gave me a truly awful experience. I can't say enough things bad about its effeccts on me. I also have known people like your husband, in surprisingly different walks of life, who smoke it every day and don't have a clue what it's doing to them; they are severely diminished and impaired and simply haven't ever been sober long enough to get it. And then there are a few people -- very, very few in my limited experience -- who do in fact seem to benefit from it. Go figure. It might not be safe to generalize too much.
I guess my counter-argument to boB's thoughts would be that the street-children of South America who sniff glue every day and die of brain rot before they're much into puberty do so for reasons similar to those he cites. Is it OK that there are orphans who stave off the pain of hunger by dulling their perceptions with inhaled paint and glue? If you can't feed them, house them, educate them or otherwise adopt these children, should we judge them for making their short lives less violent and more bearable by poisoning themselves? It's an interesting question.
My bias is pretty straightforward: the lower class self-medicates with illicit drugs and suffers the medico-legal consequences of a system in which they CAN wind up spending the rest of their lives in prison for nothing more than being stupid.
The upper class looks to all providers (police, doctors, whomever) to relieve their pain and suffering -- they believe they are entitled not to suffer such inconveniences as mood disorders.
The vast middle class was historically expected to suck it up and get back to work -- don't self-medicate, and for heavens sake don't bother your doctor unless you're bleeding profusely. That's changing.
Today, a lot of us refuse to use illicit drugs and we're demanding better care and creativity from the medical establishment. *Sometimes* someone like your husband can be helped by a cognitive re-framing of his condition. It *might* be possible that a good psychiatrist, a good therapist, and the right meds could help him both to feel good and to be present for his family, without the legal or health risks that *might* be involved in inhaling smoke and growing or purchasing illegal drugs.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by Brenda on April 26, 2000, at 22:27:07
In reply to Re: Marijuana and ..Brenda, posted by Phil on April 26, 2000, at 17:01:09
> > Brenda, I agree that pot is a tough one to quit but if your use of it caused worse side effects than speed and alcohol, you must have been smoking some bad ass weed.
> I have never seen anyone damaged by pot to the extent of what alcohol and speed are capable of.
> PhilHi Phil, I was relating the experience of withdrawal, not necessarily the effects of the three drugs. I agree that physically alcohol and crystal methamphetamine are much more damaging to your body than marijuana. I found it harder to give up the marijuana, though. This was many years ago, BTW. I think it was the psychological withdrawal that was the worst part of it. At the time, pot was the only illegal drug I was abusing, and though I didn't have the horrible physical withdrawal as with the other two drugs, this was still the hardest for me to give up. Go figure!
Take care - By the by - how's the job thing coming? Still golfing?
Brenda
Posted by boB on April 28, 2000, at 23:38:02
In reply to Re: Marijuana and ..Brenda, posted by Brenda on April 26, 2000, at 22:27:07
Well, thanks all for the spirited interest in my favorite medicine.
I didn't mean to imply that all pot users use it for the reasons I cited. I was just talking about my hippie friends at the Rainbow gatherings and stuff.
If that's not the reason you smoke pot, maybe you are not a real hippie. (LOL..ROFLMA)
I'm just reporting what I have seen and heard. People smoke because it makes them feel happy, for the most part.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.