![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by michael on April 21, 2000, at 11:45:46
Hey John,
Just wondering if you were working w/dr. jensen in conjunction w/the adrafinil trial?
The reason I ask is that I'm curious if the adrafinil might be an exception to the short term trial theory, or if you think that you could get a good "feel" for it in just a few days? I thought I remembered you saying that it took longer...? maybe not...?
One other question - do you know if dr. jensen typically works w/meds like adrafinil or amisulpride - meds not officailly approved in the US? Thanks again.
michael
Posted by JohnL on April 22, 2000, at 4:33:28
In reply to Q for JohnL re: adrafinil trial, posted by michael on April 21, 2000, at 11:45:46
> Hey John,
>
> Just wondering if you were working w/dr. jensen in conjunction w/the adrafinil trial?
>
> The reason I ask is that I'm curious if the adrafinil might be an exception to the short term trial theory, or if you think that you could get a good "feel" for it in just a few days? I thought I remembered you saying that it took longer...? maybe not...?
>
> One other question - do you know if dr. jensen typically works w/meds like adrafinil or amisulpride - meds not officailly approved in the US? Thanks again.
> michaelMichael,
Good questions. I have worked with Dr Jensen once. But he is not involved in my trial of Adrafinil and Amisulpride. I do not know if he would prescribe these or not at the patient's request. Some doctors might be willing to, but can't because their own malpractice insurance carriers disallow prescribing non-FDA meds. Their insurance won't cover them if something goes wrong. I ran into that problem with my local pdoc. After showing him all the info I dug up on these drugs, he was excited and all for it. But his insurance carrier would not allow him to write a script. He was very very apologetic, but his hands were tied.But working with Dr Jensen one time (an hour session) was extremely beneficial for me. I came to know his reasonings and strategies very well. And I gained all kinds of insightful tips and tricks with various meds we talked about. It was almost like a student having a private personal coaching with an esteemed professor. The best result of the experience is that I got my own docs to accept the quick trial method in my case. Dr Jensen spoke with them personally and put to rest any hesitation, doubts, or reluctance they may have had. He comes across as a professional, expert, polite, yet modest, with outstanding bedside manners. He is very thorough. And no ego whatsoever. Anyway, from this point on, I can now walk into my doc's office and say, "I would like to try X for a week, Y for a week, and Z for a week", and come out with a prescription for all three drugs to try and compare and then choose the best for a longer trial. My docs are now in that mode, they're on the same page as me, and I get no resistance to my requests. I have Dr Jensen to thank for that. It was his influence and intervention that steered my doctors in the direction I wanted to go.
I carried the process a little further though my trying non-FDA drugs, on my own without physician guidance. I modestly admit I've done some serious homework and knew what I was doing. I had just been so fed up with USA drugs, I felt compelled to explore what the rest of the world has to offer. And I'm glad I did.
Neither Adrafinil or Amisulpride were exceptions to the rule. Adrafinil provided immediate results, which then faded but returned over a two week period. Amisulpride provided immediate results in quieting my long-standing tinnitus. I figured anything that could do that was doing something good in my brain. It was about two weeks later that I started to feel the mood benefits. The other ingredient in my current cocktail is, of all things, St Johnswort. I've tried it with just about everything, and did again this time too. I was amazed that I felt immediate improvement. It mixes very well with Adrafinil and Amisulpride, for me. While the two French drugs are stimulating NE and dopamine, the SJW is raising and stabilizing all neurotransmitter levels. Apparently, with me, simply increasing levels isn't enough. There must be some stimulation as well. With all of these, I did indeed notice immediate and obvious benefits--either on day one or day two--and the benefits continued to improve more with longer trials.
The only thing in Dr Jensen's methods I have modified is the trial time period. I firmly believe two week trials are better than his 5-day trials. But I also believe anything longer than 2 weeks is ridiculous. The drug certainly can go on to work well in 4 or 8 weeks, but it's clearly missing the mark. There is very likely another drug that can target the problem more directly, with faster results and fewer side effects--a superior match. That's what his method is all about--not just finding a drug that works, but finding the BEST drug that works. The search for that molecule that matches our chemistry the best. For example, even if a patient responded well to one of the SSRIs, he would have them try the others as well, just to be sure they are on the best in the bunch. We never know without trying.
In summary, Dr Jensen did not directly lead me to Adrafinil and Amisulpride. But what I learned from him guided me on my own in that direction. So he was an indirect--yet crucial--catalyst for all good things to happen. JohnL
Posted by michael on April 22, 2000, at 5:01:34
In reply to Re: Q for JohnL re: adrafinil trial, posted by JohnL on April 22, 2000, at 4:33:28
Hey John -
How would you compare the adrafinil to the amineptine? I've been trying to find out if it (amineptine) continues to be mfd'd/approved in some countries... Not having much luck though...
Trying the adrafinil now (2nd or 3rd day), hence my writing at this hour... I seem to wake up after 3-4 hours. Going to try to get back to sleep shortly.
Btw, I tried amisulpride for about a week - 50mg/day -- and a day or two at the end of the week at 100mg/day. It basically knocked me out - I slept all the time. Kind of a disappointment... I had high hopes for that one. However, until I started the amisulpride, I had been taking 20mg prozac/day - think that might have skewed my results w/the amisulpride, given prozac's long half-life?
One more thing - I haven't found dr. jensen's book yet... I get the gist of the concept from your descriptions. Does the book go into more detail w/respect to what certain responses to a particular med might indicate? Thanks again for all the feed back - michael
> > Hey John,
> >
> > Just wondering if you were working w/dr. jensen in conjunction w/the adrafinil trial?
> >
> > The reason I ask is that I'm curious if the adrafinil might be an exception to the short term trial theory, or if you think that you could get a good "feel" for it in just a few days? I thought I remembered you saying that it took longer...? maybe not...?
> >
> > One other question - do you know if dr. jensen typically works w/meds like adrafinil or amisulpride - meds not officailly approved in the US? Thanks again.
> > michael
>
> Michael,
> Good questions. I have worked with Dr Jensen once. But he is not involved in my trial of Adrafinil and Amisulpride. I do not know if he would prescribe these or not at the patient's request. Some doctors might be willing to, but can't because their own malpractice insurance carriers disallow prescribing non-FDA meds. Their insurance won't cover them if something goes wrong. I ran into that problem with my local pdoc. After showing him all the info I dug up on these drugs, he was excited and all for it. But his insurance carrier would not allow him to write a script. He was very very apologetic, but his hands were tied.
>
> But working with Dr Jensen one time (an hour session) was extremely beneficial for me. I came to know his reasonings and strategies very well. And I gained all kinds of insightful tips and tricks with various meds we talked about. It was almost like a student having a private personal coaching with an esteemed professor. The best result of the experience is that I got my own docs to accept the quick trial method in my case. Dr Jensen spoke with them personally and put to rest any hesitation, doubts, or reluctance they may have had. He comes across as a professional, expert, polite, yet modest, with outstanding bedside manners. He is very thorough. And no ego whatsoever. Anyway, from this point on, I can now walk into my doc's office and say, "I would like to try X for a week, Y for a week, and Z for a week", and come out with a prescription for all three drugs to try and compare and then choose the best for a longer trial. My docs are now in that mode, they're on the same page as me, and I get no resistance to my requests. I have Dr Jensen to thank for that. It was his influence and intervention that steered my doctors in the direction I wanted to go.
>
> I carried the process a little further though my trying non-FDA drugs, on my own without physician guidance. I modestly admit I've done some serious homework and knew what I was doing. I had just been so fed up with USA drugs, I felt compelled to explore what the rest of the world has to offer. And I'm glad I did.
>
> Neither Adrafinil or Amisulpride were exceptions to the rule. Adrafinil provided immediate results, which then faded but returned over a two week period. Amisulpride provided immediate results in quieting my long-standing tinnitus. I figured anything that could do that was doing something good in my brain. It was about two weeks later that I started to feel the mood benefits. The other ingredient in my current cocktail is, of all things, St Johnswort. I've tried it with just about everything, and did again this time too. I was amazed that I felt immediate improvement. It mixes very well with Adrafinil and Amisulpride, for me. While the two French drugs are stimulating NE and dopamine, the SJW is raising and stabilizing all neurotransmitter levels. Apparently, with me, simply increasing levels isn't enough. There must be some stimulation as well. With all of these, I did indeed notice immediate and obvious benefits--either on day one or day two--and the benefits continued to improve more with longer trials.
>
> The only thing in Dr Jensen's methods I have modified is the trial time period. I firmly believe two week trials are better than his 5-day trials. But I also believe anything longer than 2 weeks is ridiculous. The drug certainly can go on to work well in 4 or 8 weeks, but it's clearly missing the mark. There is very likely another drug that can target the problem more directly, with faster results and fewer side effects--a superior match. That's what his method is all about--not just finding a drug that works, but finding the BEST drug that works. The search for that molecule that matches our chemistry the best. For example, even if a patient responded well to one of the SSRIs, he would have them try the others as well, just to be sure they are on the best in the bunch. We never know without trying.
>
> In summary, Dr Jensen did not directly lead me to Adrafinil and Amisulpride. But what I learned from him guided me on my own in that direction. So he was an indirect--yet crucial--catalyst for all good things to happen. JohnL
Posted by JohnL on April 22, 2000, at 7:37:30
In reply to Re: Q for JohnL re: adrafinil trial, posted by michael on April 22, 2000, at 5:01:34
Michael,
I didn't try Amineptine long enough to say anything about it one way or the other. I found out it was discontinued just a couple days after starting it. I immediately discontinued out of disgust with the whole marketing discontinuation thing. I didn't want to find out it worked well for me and then not be able to get more.
Sorry the Amisulpride made you sleepy. That's too bad. Just goes to show how we all respond so differently depending on our unique chemistries. Like you, I also had been on Prozac when starting Amisulpride, and some time ago I took it in combination with Prozac. I tend to think the Prozac did not skew your results, one way or the other.
Dr Jensen's book is sold out in most bookstores I've visited. Amazon.com can't seem to keep it in stock either. But you can order it directly no problem by going to www.drjensen.com. It's about $35 or so. I've spent a lot of money on books. This is the only one where I got every bit of my money's worth, and then some. If I had to choose just one book to keep, and trash all the others, Dr Jensen's is the one I would keep. It is actually a manual more than a book. It's a soft glossy cover, the size of a manual, and is what you might expect in a university classroom or something like that. Looks like a workbook at first glance. The picture of a lady on the front with a beaming smile and a thumbs-up tells it all.
While you can get the gist of the book by reading my posts, the book does have intricate detail page after page. Each page is a goldmine. You'll find graphs that show what percentage of patients with certain symptoms (depression, anxiety, whatever) got better on what kinds of drugs. For example, in a pool of 250 patients during a year who were completely cured, X% responded to an SSRI, X% to a NE antidepressant, X% to an antipsychotic, X% to a mood stabilizer, etc. etc...benzos, hormones, on through the list. It gives a good indication of the odds of success with any particular choice. And it goes into detail explaining differences between drugs within the same class. And it matches up certain drugs with certain symptoms, backed up by graphs for easy digestion. And after failing one or two drugs in the same class, it gives a step by step organized approach to what to try next. And throughout it describes how and why about 10 different chemical imbalances can cause the same exact symptoms, and why and how certain drugs work on those imbalances. Of those imbalances, antidepressants only work on three of the ten.
All in all, the best book I've ever gotten for my money. I think he could easily charge two or three times the current price and be justified in doing so (don't tell him I said that, the current price is fine! :-) ) And to think that at first I was his biggest critic. I preached how he was a quack and a get-rich-quick friek. Makes me laugh to think how off-base I was. lol JohnL
Posted by Leighwit on April 24, 2000, at 13:53:38
In reply to Re: Q for JohnL re: adrafinil trial, posted by JohnL on April 22, 2000, at 7:37:30
JohnL:
Thanks for the clear details — fascinating stuff.
I just went to Jensen's website straight off your post to order the book.
Thanks again. Can't wait to read it.
Laurie (Leighwit)
Book order number from website: 1 (800) 228-0810
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.