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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by judy on March 3, 2000, at 0:53:10
In reply to Honesty with doctors about lifestyle and meds?, posted by PattyG on March 2, 2000, at 17:04:59
Despite my mistrust of pdocs, I have been honest with my drug abuse. And I'm talking abuse not occasional recreational use. Not one time have I been condemned, I was told I was self medicating and each one tried to make me see I was defeating my treatment by using other drugs. I guess I can understand how alcohol can worsen depression, but they had a hard sell when it came to my use of opiates. I guess since you are paying these people for a service, it only makes sense that they have an accurate picture to make a treatment plan. Best of luck.
Posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 1:03:26
In reply to and a beautiful one, posted by juniper on March 2, 2000, at 23:57:23
If one of the first ten ad's I tried following
pdocs guidance had helped and kept helping, I
would probably still have respect for the
psychiatric profession. Well it did'nt work
out that way. I was forced to investigate myself
and find out that mood disorders are poorly
understood and poorly treated. To claim otherwise
like the psychiatric community does, just sets
back the impettus to actually understand mood
disorders and find proper treatments. If our
disorders did'nt so often take away so much of
our energy,I think alot of us would be mad
as hell and not take this shit anymore.
Posted by judy on March 3, 2000, at 1:52:29
In reply to in a fools paradise, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 1:03:26
I can tell you have been abused by the system-as have I. What I have done is spent a great deal of time tracking down psychiatrists who share many of the views I do (and it sounds like you also). I started with contacting Peter Breggin (which got a lot of people here upset) and was steered to other anti-drug psychs. I find that my anger was self-defeating, that ultimately I, like everyone here just wants to feel well. I've discovered there are so many approaches out there, and that many of our disorders are misunderstood. I also found what works for one person certainly doesn't predict success for another. I think the whole psychiatric profession cannot be condemned, wow have I come far in 6 months, and I hope you are able to find someone sympathetic to your experiences and open to your ideas. They really are out there. Take care.
Posted by juniper on March 3, 2000, at 2:00:00
In reply to in a fools paradise, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 1:03:26
william, you don't sleep much either, do you?
----i do not think that you can lump the entire psychiatric community as a whole---many psychiatrists i have met and articles i've read openly admit that the mind, and thus causes of mental disorders, is an extremely complex and intricate organ affected (and affecting) all parts of the body whether in reaction to external or internal stimuli. any psychiatrist, or anyone for this matter, who claims to Know (with a capitol K) what this is all about is delusional. mood disorders are poorly treated not because psychiatrists have the tools to treat them but do not know how to use them (at least i do not believe this to be the usual case), but because the medications available now have their limitations, as i believe all medications affecting mood, no matter how refined and sophisticated they may be,
will inevitably have as mood is so intricate and fragile and subjective...
i know that there are thousands of studies and millions of dollars spent on
researching mental disorders...they really are getting an enormous amount of attention precisely because they are misunderstood. take a look in a university library...hundreds of research studies are published each month.what good does getting mad as hell do? and what would we do to "not take this shit"? ----i feel that the brain and other systems involved in mental disorders are finally getting the attention they deserve...these drugs and theories are still relatively new and evolving as the equiptment to study such becomes more advanced. the processes underlying mental disorders are misunderstood, but i am suprised they are understood as much as they are. psychology/psychiatry have come a long way since the oedipal complex...i can no more blaim the psychiatric community for the rate of progress than i could blame the government and the universities and Freud for theorizing that neurosis is not controlled by neurons but by stagnation at the anal stages.....
overall, it is going to be a long, involved process to the heart of the causes regardless of whether we are bitter and buck the system or not. i'm spending my meantime with a doctor who is on the same page as i and who is willing to work with me and amass his and my knowledge toward the goal of managing the symptoms that control my life at times. it's not ideal, but it is the best way i can come up with for the here and now.
(again, this is MY best way, and YOUR and others best ways may be different. nothing wrong with that.)juniper
Posted by Paul S. on March 3, 2000, at 2:41:50
In reply to in a fools paradise, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 1:03:26
Honesty with Docs:
I have found it better to let my doc know what is happening in those areas. Most docs are pretty good about it with them usually being concerned that we aren't overdoing it and in which situations. My doc is ok with me having a few drinks socially but would be concerned if I was drinking by myself.Fools Paradise:
I would agree with you William. Much less is known about mood disorders then many docs would lead us to believe. I've tried over 15 meds and am still trying to find an even partially effective treatment. Out of those, only one (Paxil) worked at all, and it pooped out after six months. Why did that one work?...who knows. Why did it quit working?...no answer there either. Much of mental health work is hit and miss...and in my case mostly misses. Still I continue with trying different treatments even though I too am angered by all the "hype" about meds and how easy these illnesses are to treat. I hope that something beneficial does comes along for you....and for myself also.
Posted by ChrisK on March 3, 2000, at 6:22:49
In reply to Honesty with Docs/ Fools Paradise, posted by Paul S. on March 3, 2000, at 2:41:50
Patty,
I have been honest with my current pdoc regarding my alcoholism and past suicide attempts by overdosing. Knowing this helps him steer me clear of meds that may cause me extra problems. He won't prescribe me something I could easily OD on or meds that may cause liver damage in excess of what the alcohol is doing. I think it has been helpful to have been honest with him.
Chris
Posted by PattyG on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:57
In reply to Re: Honesty with Docs, posted by ChrisK on March 3, 2000, at 6:22:49
It's interesting to read of the different experiences and viewpoints regarding this topic. I suppose, for the most part, a lot depends on your doctor and his views on things, as well. I'm now curious to know if the "truth of the matter" becomes a part of your permanent records! Those very records could be turned over to an insurance company for coverage consideration, no? Considering the companies that exclude folks or create waivers at the drop of a hat, I guess I'd be concerned about what could be in the doctor's records, you know? And, anymore, I'm not sure what the policy is. Used to be, one could enjoy a doctor/patient privilege, but not sure that really exists anymore. It just gets to be a huge dilemma. I'm not sure we're ready to try and order drugs on our own.........aside from, perhaps, something like Ritalin, Adderall, etc. THose seem to be trial and error situations and efficacy can be determined rather quickly, it seems. My main concern right now is truly with the insurance coverage issue. Just blows my mind how they can just ignore someone's health needs and then expect them to not have resultant problems. Has anyone ever had luck appealing such decisions? Heck, we're only talking about 2 visits a year to the psydoc and, currently, an antidepressant. I wonder if they would even consider covering just *that* much with a waiver for therapy, etc. Sound possible? Geesh.............it just gets overwhelming sometimes, doesn't it?
Posted by saint james on March 3, 2000, at 10:50:37
In reply to Re: Honesty with Docs, posted by PattyG on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:57
> It's interesting to read of the different experiences and viewpoints regarding this topic. I suppose, for the most part, a lot depends on your doctor and his views on things, as well. I'm now curious to know if the "truth of the matter" becomes a part of your permanent records!
James here....
I gave this issue considerable thought and decided
I would prefer to be well than have privacy. At least with my present doc he says he writes as little as possible in the chart.j
Posted by Sarah on March 3, 2000, at 10:57:57
In reply to Re: Honesty with Docs, posted by PattyG on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:57
Hey Patty, My insurance changed this year. I was seeing a Psychatrist for my therapy. This year I can only see one for my med checks. I have to go to a MA or Phd for the therapy part now. For me it was really no big deal; I had a really flaky non med liking shrink. I have found a wonderful new Pdoc for my meds who finally prescribed what I really needed and as far as the therapy thing goes, I'm still waiting on that. Don't have too many issues to deal with anyway. I am sure the change within my insurance company did hurt some ppl, though. Hard for the ones who really have problems to deal with to have to change to someone else when they were comfy with a certain doc. They have to start all over again, and for what? Nothing but money! I have one of the largest insurance companies in the southwest, usa. AUGH, if you think about it, it will drive you crazy! I must say, though, I am very lucky to have it, and I know. ($15 visits/$5 meds) I just hope I don't get really sick!! You can always appeal and see where that goes. Keep trying!
Posted by Sarah on March 3, 2000, at 11:06:57
In reply to We all deserve proper treatment and privacy!!!, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 10:59:52
My doc does the same here, not too much info in his records. Not that I will be President or anything one day! ;-) I don't have much to worry about in my life anyway, lived a pretty safe, conventional life for the most part. (but, yes, I did inhale!)
Posted by bob on March 4, 2000, at 21:41:48
In reply to Re: We all deserve proper treatment and privacy!!!, posted by Sarah on March 3, 2000, at 11:06:57
[y'know, st. james ... there is something very comforting in reading those "James here ..." lines =^)]
Pardon me for blowing sunshine up your butts, but it seems to me that being honest with my docs is always the first step to being honest with myself. And for my part, I've never known a GP, a pdoc, or a therapist to claim that mental disorders were well understood at all. Never met a drug company rep, but I imagine THEY'D peddle that sort of happy h*rs*sh*t, tho.
my two cents,
bob
Posted by Renee N on March 5, 2000, at 23:12:06
In reply to Re: honesty with whom?, posted by bob on March 4, 2000, at 21:41:48
Sarah, Loved the never be president and I inhaled lines!
Bob, I love your spontanaity(sp?) and humor. Some of us think too hard before we type and try too hard not to offend others, which sometimes ruins our humor potential.
Thank you to everyone who gives me a smile or belly laugh here now and then. =^)
(I copied someone's smiling face.)
Renee N
Posted by Noa on March 6, 2000, at 17:39:37
In reply to Sarah and Bob, posted by Renee N on March 5, 2000, at 23:12:06
=^)
The smiling face is great--reminds me of Bazooka Joe, for some reason.
Bob, the only mental health professionals who do come across like it is all known, and by them, to boot, are those who have "invented" a "method" or are plugging a book about their wonderful amazing new approach. Occasionally you come across them on TV, or at professional workshops they lead. They always seem a bit oily to me.
Posted by bob on March 6, 2000, at 20:24:46
In reply to Re: Sarah and Bob, posted by Noa on March 6, 2000, at 17:39:37
Yep, right you are on that one, Noa. Hard to sell something if you're going to admit it doesn't work.
Thank goodness for the FDA on that account -- just imagine how less funny all those medication commercials would be if they didn't have to run through the side effects! (especially that weight-loss drug ... gack! the cure is worse than the disease!).
bob
Posted by Cam W. on March 7, 2000, at 0:08:46
In reply to Snakeoil salesfolk, posted by bob on March 6, 2000, at 20:24:46
"I'm not a doctor, but I play one on T.V."
Posted by harry b. on March 7, 2000, at 16:27:13
In reply to Honesty with doctors about lifestyle and meds?, posted by PattyG on March 2, 2000, at 17:04:59
Good question. I tell my history to my docs. Long
ago I used to smoke pot every day. Anyone here
old enough to remember being able to buy an ounce
of great Mexican for $10 or $15 dollars?Until recently I had trouble telling docs about my
sexual problems, but what the hell, I'm 49 yrs old
and if I'm ever going to resolve them then I'd best
try now.My concern, of course, is that the doctor/patient
confidentiality no longer exists. Sure, your doc
may tell you he is 'just making general notes' but
I'm sure that those 'general notes' all contain
certain key words that the insurance companies are
all familiar with.My biggest concern is that employers have access
to our records. Insurers routinely provide employers
with our actual records. That is a true invasion
of our privacy.
Posted by bob on March 7, 2000, at 16:33:52
In reply to Re: Snakeoil salesfolk, posted by Cam W. on March 7, 2000, at 0:08:46
>
> "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on T.V."Watch what you say, Cam -- those qualifications can get you elected president south of your border....
;^)
bob
Posted by Noa on March 7, 2000, at 18:43:48
In reply to Re: Honesty with doctors about lifestyle and meds?, posted by harry b. on March 7, 2000, at 16:27:13
> Insurers routinely provide employers
> with our actual records.Is this true? How do you know? How can it be? You are scaring me.
Posted by Brenda on March 7, 2000, at 21:28:49
In reply to Re: Honesty with doctors about lifestyle and meds?, posted by Noa on March 7, 2000, at 18:43:48
> > Insurers routinely provide employers
> > with our actual records.
>
> Is this true? How do you know? How can it be? You are scaring me.Noa - we had this discussion in another posting. As a former H/R rep - I know it to be true.
Posted by Brenda on March 7, 2000, at 21:31:58
In reply to Re: Honesty with doctors about lifestyle and meds?, posted by Noa on March 7, 2000, at 18:43:48
> > Insurers routinely provide employers
> > with our actual records.
>
> Is this true? How do you know? How can it be? You are scaring me.With regard to my other comment - I don't know that they provide the employer with your actual medical record, however, they do provide cost breakdowns for treatment, and diagnosis codes.
Posted by Renee N on March 8, 2000, at 22:30:48
In reply to Re: Snakeoil salesfolk Super Tuesday, posted by bob on March 7, 2000, at 16:33:52
> >
> > "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on T.V."I'm not a teacher, but I play one in the classroom. Real reassuring words from a sub, huh? !^) Renee N
Posted by Noa on March 9, 2000, at 17:10:32
In reply to I'm not a..., posted by Renee N on March 8, 2000, at 22:30:48
"I'm not a grown up but I play one in real life."
Posted by Renee N on March 9, 2000, at 23:00:39
In reply to Re: I'm not a..., posted by Noa on March 9, 2000, at 17:10:32
> "I'm not a grown up but I play one in real life."
Noa, My husband and I say we'd like to hire an adult to take care of all the stupid DETAILS of grown up life. A secretary and maid would do wonders for our household's level of organization! But, I'd have the same problem you had with the plumber. Actually my husband is finally taking his turn again to grocery shop, cook, and do dishes. HOORAY, HOORAY! Maybe this will help me get to bed before 1:00 am on worknights.
Posted by Cindy W on March 10, 2000, at 8:57:25
In reply to Re: I'm not a..., posted by Renee N on March 9, 2000, at 23:00:39
> > "I'm not a grown up but I play one in real life."
>
> Noa, My husband and I say we'd like to hire an adult to take care of all the stupid DETAILS of grown up life. A secretary and maid would do wonders for our household's level of organization! But, I'd have the same problem you had with the plumber. Actually my husband is finally taking his turn again to grocery shop, cook, and do dishes. HOORAY, HOORAY! Maybe this will help me get to bed before 1:00 am on worknights.Noa and Renee, I'm not a grownup, but I play one in real life, too. Everybody has a scared *-less child inside, I think.
Posted by bob on March 10, 2000, at 18:44:30
In reply to Re: I'm not a..., posted by Cindy W on March 10, 2000, at 8:57:25
Whenever anyone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I'd say "Forty".
I'm finding I need to revise that a bit. Either that, or go straight on to my second childhood.
bob
This is the end of the thread.
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