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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janet on February 20, 2000, at 20:52:55
How are you both? Just to say your in my thoughts. I would love an update . Jan
Posted by harry b. on February 20, 2000, at 23:22:53
In reply to Harry b and Michael, posted by Janet on February 20, 2000, at 20:52:55
> How are you both? Just to say your in my thoughts. I would love an update . Jan
Hello Janet, thanks for thinking of me.
I'm afraid I don't have any positive things to
report. My new cocktail of meds hasn't had much
of an effect. I did not work at all last week.On Wed night, around midnight, I went for a drive
and ended up in Ocean City, Md, about 5 hrs from
home. I rented an ocean front room with a great
view of the sea and the breakers on the beach. I
took a walk on the beach, but mostly sat in my
room watching and hypnotized by the never ending waves
breaking and crashing onto the beach. I just returned
earlier today.I have a question. If I were to consent to being
hospitalized, what does the treatment consist of?
Would I be simply sedated and under observation?
Or would I be restrained in any manner? Sedation
and observation would be OK, but restrainment would
not be good. Although I still have suicidal ideations,
I have not attempted to harm myself, nor have I
posed a threat to anyone else. If someone who has
been thru this would respond, I'd be grateful for
your description of how you were treated. As a
second part to my request, what was the duration
of your hospital stay? Did you find it to be helpful?
What was the response of family, friends, employers?
If I consent to it, am I free to leave when I wish,
or will I be released only upon my doc's say so?Thank you
Posted by ChrisK on February 21, 2000, at 6:28:46
In reply to Re: Harry b and Michael...and a question, posted by harry b. on February 20, 2000, at 23:22:53
Harry,
I have been hospitalized in three diferent hosptals over the years. They are nothing like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." Each was privately run so I couldn't garauntee that a state run hospital would be the same.
In general we had free roaming of the building or floor we were on. The day was basically like this: After Breakfast we would have a meeting with our assigned counselor and pdoc to discuss problems and concerns about meds. We always had our choice to refuse a med if we thought it was in anyway harmful.
Around 10am we started with "classes" or talk therapy sessions. These were things like coping skills, identifying signs of problems, role playing of life situations that we couldn't deal with, etc. This continued into the afternoon sessions. Each patient had a choice of 3 or 4 classes at each starting time and could structure their program with their counselor. There was always a time before dinner for some excersize, whether it was outdoors or in a gym.
The day really moved along quickly and the thing was that I always felt safe there. Nobdy threatened me for any reason and I got to meet other people who felt the same way I did.
The housing was dorm style with two patients to a room. There were always 4 or 5 staff members on hand for a group of 18 patients. We always had the option of talking to a nurse or doctor about our meds if there was a problem or concern. Nothing was forced on us.
Overall I had good experiences. The first time I went in was after a failed suicide attempt and that lasted 12 days. The next time was for 8 days. It all depends on when you feel that you can safely go home and take care of yourself. In general if you admit yourself, you can usually get out when you want to. The only thing to stop you in NY(where I'm from) is if a doctor feels that you are a danger to yourself or others. At that point they can ask for a hearing sometime in the next 72 hours. It's their little way of keeping an eye on you for another 3 days. I never saw this law applied to a patient while I was in.
As far as family and friends, they were very supportive. They would rather have me alive and getting help than being succesful in my suicide attempts.
The other good thing to come out of this was that I met my current pdoc while inpatient. He is very good and I get along with him fine. He was working adjunt to the hospital and got my case.
Overall I would say if you are in serious danger of attempting suicide, hospitalization is the best option.
I hope this helps a little. If you have any more questions e-mail me. (ckelly2@nycap.rr.com)
Stay healthy,
Chris>
> I have a question. If I were to consent to being
> hospitalized, what does the treatment consist of?
> Would I be simply sedated and under observation?
> Or would I be restrained in any manner? Sedation
> and observation would be OK, but restrainment would
> not be good. Although I still have suicidal ideations,
> I have not attempted to harm myself, nor have I
> posed a threat to anyone else. If someone who has
> been thru this would respond, I'd be grateful for
> your description of how you were treated. As a
> second part to my request, what was the duration
> of your hospital stay? Did you find it to be helpful?
> What was the response of family, friends, employers?
> If I consent to it, am I free to leave when I wish,
> or will I be released only upon my doc's say so?
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Abby on February 21, 2000, at 19:32:20
In reply to Re: Harry b and Michael...and a question, posted by harry b. on February 20, 2000, at 23:22:53
I've never been in the hospital, but I believe that Noa has, and she generally has good insights.
Take care,
Abby
Posted by Janice on February 21, 2000, at 22:03:32
In reply to Re: Harry b and Michael...and a question, posted by harry b. on February 20, 2000, at 23:22:53
hello harry b,
Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time. I can share with you my time in the hospital. I was there for mania and exhaustion.
Early one spring day at the end of April, 1995, after 2 sleepless nights where I remained at work and after several weeks of my obsessive, absolute control of every thermostat in the entire office, my collegues strongly encouraged me to 'get help' or they would have to 'get me help'.
I went to the hospital voluntarily where they very quickly stabilized me, and started giving me lithium. I had a roommate, who made me very nervous at first because she was always trying to cut herself with anything she could find. Eventually we became friendly, and she promised she wouldn't try to cut herself around me anymore (she kept the promise). The staff was great. No one treated me like I was crazy. Every creature comfort complaint I had was taken seriously.
I thoroughly enjoyed the structure provided by the hospital and having meals made for me. Because after my high, I came down pretty drastically. The large majority of patients were fine people.
I remained in the hospital for (I believe 10 days to 2 weeks).Like Chris, I met my psychiatrist there and continued to see him every week for 1 hour for 5 years. My hospital stay for me was the beginning of the ending of my many symptoms of my mental illnesses. It finally hit me how serious my problems were, and essentially I began to accept help that so many kind, generous people were willing to give.
As for my job, I never went back to it - but that was my choice. The very worst was the shame I felt from behaving this way in front of my coworkers. Nevertheless, I have no complaints about them. Some of my collegues came to visit me in the hospital. I was told that during a staff meeting, the office had a mental health professional come in to talk to everyone about manic depression. They wanted me to come back to work, and I really didn't feel any kind of prejudice coming from any of them. From the top to the bottom of the company's hierarchial structure, I found the staff to be tolerant and open minded.
Essentially though harry b., I realized I was working myself to the bone for something I wasn't that crazy about, and it was the time at the hospital (as well as a bit of sanity) that helped me to reach this insight.
My family and friends were fantastic - and extremely happy to see me finally accept help. I had an earlier hospital stay where I emotionally rejected any help.
harry b.,
I hope I have helped you in any way. I mean, mostly I found it to be a pleasant place. I even made a friend (the roommate) that I am still in touch with, and she is doing very well also. From this stay at the hospital, I have been consistently getting better.
>
It's great for me to see that you can ask for help. Even now it surprises me the amount of people that are available and enjoy helping people in times of trouble.If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
make sure you keep us up to date. Janice.to answer the rest of your questions:
No sedation - unless you were high or violent.
Not under observation - the staff believed what i said
No restraining - unless you were violent
No sedations - unless you were high or violent.As far as I know, most of these hospitals are very sophisticated. The public's perceptions of these hospitals are about 30 years behind the times.
I live in Canada harry, so I'm not certain as to the laws in the States. Actually, I don't even know the laws about this stuff in Canada.
I'm certain this is my longest post ever!
Posted by Janice on February 21, 2000, at 22:09:33
In reply to Re: Harry b and Michael...and a question, posted by harry b. on February 20, 2000, at 23:22:53
hi Adam, I just remember a great posting you did about your trip to the hospital. It was so starkly realistic and I so thoroughly enjoyed it.
harry, if Adam doesn't respond, if my memory serves me well, it was under a very long Selegine (spelling) thread about 4,5 or 6 months back.
Janice
Posted by Noa on February 22, 2000, at 7:20:59
In reply to Adam, are you still around?, posted by Janice on February 21, 2000, at 22:09:33
Harry, Janice is right, I was in the hospital once. I didn't post about it, because my hospitalization was a long time ago, and I thought it would be more relevant coming from those who have been in the hospital more recently.
In the early 80's I checked myself into the hospital when I got to a point I was sure I would act on my suicidal urges.
This wasn't reputed to be the best hospital around town, but it was no snakepit, either. It was a small private hospital. No sedation, no restraints, that I saw, although I am sure they might be used if needed.
The first 24 hours I was on a locked unit, which was staffed by one nurse and a bunch of mental health technicians, who seemed very ill-trained. However, occasionally, more capable staff would come in to lead groups, like an art group with an art therapist.
Then I was moved to an unlocked unit, which was much better. It was staffed by psychiatric nurses, one of whom was also trained as a clinical social worker. The nurses were more available for talking, and were helpful. There were also various meetings, discussions, etc. and you could go elsewhere on the grounds for different groups. I went to one that was a music jam session, and the therapist did a great job of blending musicians and non-musicians by color coding the keys, etc. There was one on relaxation techniques, one arts and crafts type thing, one on identifying aspects of your life you can or can't change and selecting a realistic goal to work on, one on identifying things that help you feel better about yourself, etc.
Some of these groups were well run by really competent people, others were just time fillers.
I met some very interesting people there, and still remember things about them. I remember sitting outside just relaxing with some folks, and one guy, Scott, who had been in the hospital a long while and was very close to leaving, said to me, "You know some people in this hospital are really crazy, they think they're God or something". Then he asked if I believed in Jesus Christ. When I said no, he said, "That's ok, I forgive you". I really got the feeling he was trying so hard to work through his delusions. He also made the joke, as we were watching the Boston Pops perform for July 4th, on TV, "What's Arthur Fiedler doing now?" Ans: "He's decomposing!"
I still feel a sort of affection/connection with my hospital compatriots.
The MDs at this particular hospital left a lot to be desired. I found mine to be arrogant and unavailable--he missed a scheduled appointment. And, since I was in the hospital over a holiday, my doctor forgot to give the nurses orders relaxing my restrictions (that he told me he would), and I had to wait an extra two days until he came back from being off, in order to get certain priveleges (like walking to therapy groups by myself without having to be escorted by a nurse).
This hospital did ECT, so there were a lot of patients who were there for that, including an entire unit of older folks. My roomate had ECT, and I remember being upset at her memory loss. Interestingly, we had infrequent visits from the doctors, but she (I think she was the only one on my unit getting ECT at the time) got regular visits from her neurologist to check up how she was functioning.
As a Harvard Community Health Plan patient, I had the benefit of a nurse who came to visit every day to check on my care, and meet with me about discharge planning. That helped. Between this, and help from one of the nurses, I decided to get into group therapy(and actually found one with their help), in addition to my individual, and to start some volunteer work. At the time, I was extremely lonely and shy, so these two things were good moves for me.
Anyway, I don't know if my story adds anything to your thinking. It was not considered to be a very good hospital, and some aspects made me angry, but it served a good purpose at the time.
Posted by harry b. on February 22, 2000, at 16:41:33
In reply to Hospital, posted by Noa on February 22, 2000, at 7:20:59
Thank to everyone who shared their experiences.
Now for the weird part. I finally decided it was
in my best interest to be hospitalized. Remember,
2 weeks ago my new Pdoc encouraged me to do so.
Well, I tried contacting her yesterday and got
a call back this afternoon. I told her of my
decision. Now I find out that she can not help
with the process, that I would have to go to an
emergency room and be examined by a psychiatric
resident. He/she would make a determination, then
if a bed is available, he/she would contact my
insurance provider for authorization. If there is
no bed available, I would have to go thru the same
process at another hospital.I don't understand this. Should I call the hospitals
to see if beds are available before I go to their
emergency rooms?If there is a chance that they won't admit me after
being examined, I will have wasted time & money by
having to board my cat, stop my mail delivery,
pay some bills that are due,
and all the other things one does before an
extended absence. Please don't suggest I just
go to the ER(s) and, if admitted, have a friend
take care of the cat, etc, because I have NO
support, noone to do these things for me.Can anyone relate to this? Offer an alternative
approach? I'm not too rational now so I need
Help, please.
Posted by Adam on February 22, 2000, at 17:11:50
In reply to Adam, are you still around?, posted by Janice on February 21, 2000, at 22:09:33
Yes, I'm still here, just lurking more these days. So much to do, so little time...
Anyway,
I was hospitalized at the beginning of last year. I went because I came very close to killing myself (an attempt I aborted at the last moment) and knew at that point I had few if any options left.
The post describing my experience in somewhat greater length than necessary is in the "Selegiline for Depression" thread, I believe.
To be brief, it was the right thing for me to do at the time, and not only was I stabilized but also events were set in motion that led to vitally important steps to my recovery.
If you admit yourself, you can leave whenever you want. You don't have to do anything against your will. You will only be restrained if you are a clear danger to yourself or others.
I found the days rather long and the group sessions rather boring and unhelpful. What I consider to be the most valuable parts of the experience were:
Safety and rest - I needed both, and got them. I also was cared for very well by attentive doctors and nurses, and that made me feel confident I could be helped.
ECT - Not my favorite kind of treatment, but it did the job nicely.
Referrals - I got hooked up with an excellent psychotherapist and an excellent psychopharmacologist. I felt and still feel that my care prior to that had been substandard, and may have done me more harm than good.
I think that about sums it up.
I personally feel the hospital is an option of last resort, but one that should be considered if you feel you may be ready to harm yourself. Don't expect a miracle cure, but do expect to be healthier coming out than you were going in.
> hi Adam, I just remember a great posting you did about your trip to the hospital. It was so starkly realistic and I so thoroughly enjoyed it.
>
> harry, if Adam doesn't respond, if my memory serves me well, it was under a very long Selegine (spelling) thread about 4,5 or 6 months back.
> Janice
Posted by Noa on February 22, 2000, at 18:47:37
In reply to Hospital Lost...Help, posted by harry b. on February 22, 2000, at 16:41:33
GEEZ, what an irony, how functional one has to be to get hospitalized!
I think YOUR PDOC should call around to see who has beds available,so you don't have to risk repeating the process. If the pdoc won't, I dont see any reason why you can't call first, explain your situation, and then go if there is space at that hospital.
Posted by Janice on February 22, 2000, at 20:36:25
In reply to Hospital Lost...Help, posted by harry b. on February 22, 2000, at 16:41:33
harry b, you sound pretty rational to me. Yes, definately call first.
If this doesn't work out, post again to find another alternative. Janice
>
Posted by dove on February 22, 2000, at 22:10:54
In reply to Re: Hospital Lost...Help, posted by Janice on February 22, 2000, at 20:36:25
Harry
Did your p-doc give you a reason for her inability to help you through this process? It seems a little peculiar under the circumstances. And with no support, you're in a very tough situation. I think calling the hospitals first will either net you a bed, or an admission. How can they deny someone hurting so much? They don't usually. I hope this situation doesn't get anymore complicated, and I hope someone listens to you Harry! My prayers and thoughts are with you.
dove
Posted by Renee N on February 22, 2000, at 23:24:55
In reply to Re: Hospital Lost...Help, posted by dove on February 22, 2000, at 22:10:54
> Harry
>
> Did your p-doc give you a reason for her inability to help you through this process? It seems a little peculiar under the circumstances. And with no support, you're in a very tough situation. I think calling the hospitals first will either net you a bed, or an admission. How can they deny someone hurting so much? They don't usually. I hope this situation doesn't get anymore complicated, and I hope someone listens to you Harry! My prayers and thoughts are with you.
>
> doveHarry,
I'm sorry you feel so badly. It seems so dumb that you have such crap to go through to get in to the hospital. It seems like you pdoc should be more helpful, if not doing things for you, at least walking you through it. I will be thinking of you. Please, let us know what's going on. You know what a bunch of worry warts we are!
Posted by Craig on February 23, 2000, at 0:56:34
In reply to Hospital Lost...Help, posted by harry b. on February 22, 2000, at 16:41:33
Having worked in the Admissions Department in a hospital, maybe I can shed some light on how patients are admitted. Basically, there are admissions directly from the Emergency Room and admissions that are scheduled. Hospitals maintain waiting lists of people who are to be admitted by a physician on the hospital staff. If I'm understanding you, you would like to be assured that there is a bed available for you now that you've decided to be hospitalized. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee of that and the fact that your psychiatrist isn't on staff at a hospital complicates things even more. I doubt very much that anyone in the admitting department would (or could) tell you if a bed on the psych ward is available. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the reality of it.
If your doctor isn't on staff at any hospital, she ought to know a colleage with admitting privileges somewhere. She is in a position to know that some patients may need hospitalization at some point in their treatment and should be prepared to deal with this kind of crisis. She strikes me as being rather cold to have recommended hospitalization only two weeks ago and now she's basically telling you "you're on your own now."
I don't know if you live in a large city, but if you do, you have more options - meaning that you have more than one hospital to choose from. Stress that you are suicidal because it's more likely that you'd be admitted if you are an eminent threat to yourself or others. What your doctor has said about the admissions process is correct. Pray that you have good medical insurance.
I have been admitted to psych wards more often than I'd care to remember and most times I was told by my doctor to go to the emergency room. The hospital would contact him about my current situation and I was never denied admission. Most of the time, I went to a hospital where my psychiatrist wasn't on staff (because it was the best hospital in the area), was evaluated in the ER by a resident, and assigned a staff physician.
I am truly sorry that you have no support system and are having to work your way through all these hoops yourself. Why won't your new doc help you? Stress to her that you're all alone in this and desperately need help, especially at a time when it's already hard to make decisions. At this point, if she won't help you, you'd be better off with another doctor. I would encourage you to go to an ER, but bear in mind that there is a possibility that you won't get admitted. If you are to be admitted, it's possible that they would allow you to go home to do what you need to arrange. Maybe they would put you on the urgent admission list. Tell these professionals that you have no one to help you and you are overwhelmed with having to deal with all this on your own.
My best wishs to you,
Craig
Posted by AprilA on February 23, 2000, at 20:22:02
In reply to Hospital Lost...Help, posted by harry b. on February 22, 2000, at 16:41:33
cI have NO
> support, noone to do these things for me.
>
> Can anyone relate to this? Offer an alternative
> approach? I'm not too rational now so I need
> Help, please.
>
I hope by now you are in a good hospital and everything is taken care of. I've never had any trouble being admitted to a hospital but usually my doctor did call ahead even if he wasn't going to be my inpatient doctor. Are you in an area with several hospitals? Around here the psychiatric hospitals all sponsor "help lines" and free evaluations. You might just look up all the psych hospitals and call and ask to speak to admissions. Please don't be shy about telling them you are suicidal and it is an emergency.About the cat,why don't you just take it to the boarding kennel and leave it and tell them you have a family emergency and aren't sure exactly how long you will be gone. If you need to go to the hospital and the kennel is closed couldn't you get a big bag of dry cat food and some big water dishes and bags of kitty litter and fix up the bathroom and shut the cat up in there? Make sure there's nothing (medicine or cleaners) that could hurt the cat and it should be okay for a week or so. Some hospitals have social workers that will accompany you on urgent errands outside,so maybe you could get out to take him somewhere else. I'm sure your cat would be glad to "rough it " for a few days for your sake.
I am so sorry you have no support and no one to help you, I know how that is.. Please take care of yourself. I really believe things can be a lot better for you just don't give up.
The civility guidelines prevent me from commenting on your Pdoc's lack of help/support in this. If you are hospitalized talk to the staff you like and other patients about the doctors in the area and maybe you can find someone more responsible.
Good wishes, AprilA
Posted by harry b. on February 23, 2000, at 23:03:18
In reply to Re: Hospital Lost...Help, posted by AprilA on February 23, 2000, at 20:22:02
Thank you all for your advice and for sharing
your experiences, they helped allay my fears about
being hospitalizedI've been to psychologists
and pdocs several times over the past 30 years.
My overall opinion is that they really don't
(haven't) helped much.Today I saw my psychologist. He wasn't very empathetic.
He suggested I try working half days and not apply
for my short/long term disability insurance. The
problem with that is that eligibility for those
insurances are based on certain criteria, such as
meeting a required number of hours worked in the
past 12 months. I can qualify right now, but if I
start working part time and/or continue absences
for a few months, I will not be able to qualify.
Can my psychologist guarantee that I will be
able to return to work & and continue working,
and not become debilitated? No, he can't. And
then I will have no safety net, no income.He also advised to try to keep going, to not opt
for hospitalization. I feel a great need to be in
a safe, comforting,structured environment, a place where
I can, to a degree, let others make decisions for
me, or at least be able to receive guidance in
making decions. Damnit, I want to be in a hospital.He did make time in his schedule to see me again
tomorrow morning. So, I guess I'll postpone
seeking hospitalization until after that appt.BTW, April, I often let my cat alone for long week-
ends and she does fine, but I would be concerned
about letting her alone for a week or longer. The
nearest reputable hospitals are an hour to an hour
and a half away.harry b.
Posted by Adam on February 24, 2000, at 11:13:29
In reply to Re: Hospital Lost...Help, posted by harry b. on February 23, 2000, at 23:03:18
> BTW, April, I often let my cat alone for long week-
> ends and she does fine, but I would be concerned
> about letting her alone for a week or longer. The
> nearest reputable hospitals are an hour to an hour
> and a half away.
>
> harry b.I have a cat too, harry. I also leave him for long weekends, and he does well.
When I was in the hospital, I was allowed to go out and stretch my legs if I needed to. Sometimes I even took the T (Bostonian for Subway) home and checked out on him, even though my roomates were sitting for me.
It may be possible for you to take a morning or an afternoon and visit your cat, even though you are an inpatient.
As I and others have mentioned, voluntary admission does allow certain privileges. You could call the hospital and ask if it would be feasible for you to do this, if you are uncomfortable or unable to find a pet sitter. I imagine doing this once a week (big bowl of food, change the litter box, scratch behind the ears) would be sufficient.
I sympathise greatly with your concern for your cat. My experience is they get along pretty well on their own with the bare necessities, and right now you've got some urgent issues that need attending to. Your cat will be OK, so don't compromise your health for her benefit. She'll forgive you, too. ]:#)
Posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 10:23:05
In reply to Re: Hospital Lost...Help, posted by Adam on February 24, 2000, at 11:13:29
Harry, how are you today?
This is the end of the thread.
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