![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CarolAnn (iittt'ssss baaaack!) on November 18, 1999, at 14:22:24
I've moved down in the posts...told you I would!
I think alot of the disagreement up there(in the thread that wouldn't die)is caused by equating "Religion" with "Faith". There's a huge difference:
All "Religion" is *based* on writings which(inspired by God or not)were set down by human beings who are all too capable of making mistakes, misinterpreting, mistranslating, ect., consequently, most Religions in existence, are pretty much derived from conjecture. This doesn't invalidate them though, anything which brings comfort and fosters morality has validity. But, the fact remains that any "Religion" is a morass of dogma, commands, rules, ideas, ect.,which have been claimed, by mere humans, to be the "absolute truth" of their particular deity.
"Faith", on the other hand, is *based* on spirituality, which evolves from each person's knowledge and experiences of all that being alive entails -- love, hate, success, failure, life, death,ect., we are constantly gaining the information needed to form our own beliefs. So, Faith is the result of what our "being", finds with mind, body, heart, and soul, to be our very own "Absolute truth".
To sum up:
Some people have no Faith and practice no Religion, some people have Faith 'in' their Religion, some people practice Religion without Faith, and some people(like me) have Faith but do not practice Religion.
Now a quote(not sure where it's from)..."Faith is the 'belief' in all things seen...
The 'hope' of all things unseen."
Well, thanx for your time!CarolAnn
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 18, 1999, at 15:05:58
In reply to Religion does NOT equal faith., posted by CarolAnn (iittt'ssss baaaack!) on November 18, 1999, at 14:22:24
> Now a quote(not sure where it's from)...
>
> "Faith is the 'belief' in all things seen...
> The 'hope' of all things unseen."
Wow. Works for me.
Thank-you.- Scott
Posted by Manic Fox on November 19, 1999, at 8:32:11
In reply to Religion does NOT equal faith., posted by CarolAnn (iittt'ssss baaaack!) on November 18, 1999, at 14:22:24
By the way, that quote is from the Bible (the holy living inspired Word of God). I do agree with you about their being a difference between religion and faith, but your idea of faith is just as man-made as you state religion is.
Most people don't like to look at the fact that there is absolute truth, because to acknowledge that would be the same as admitting their own limitations. I hope one day you do find the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-present God of the Bible.
In Christian love,
Manic Fox
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 19, 1999, at 8:57:12
In reply to Re: Religion does NOT equal faith., posted by Manic Fox on November 19, 1999, at 8:32:11
This is fun.
> Most people don't like to look at the fact that there is absolute truth, because to acknowledge that would be the same as admitting their own limitations. I hope one day you do find the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-present God of the Bible.
I agree that there is one absolute Truth. In my simple way of thinking, it seems like a logical axiom to proceed from. There are, perhaps, many realities. I think part of the absolute Truth is that it is unknowable. Even if all the questions about the Cosmos, including the human psyche, are answered (I hope this never happens in my lifetime), one question will remain. "Why existence?" That this question is unanswerable will always be mankind's ultimate limitation.
- Scott
Posted by CarolAnn on November 19, 1999, at 15:24:46
In reply to Re: Religion does NOT equal faith., posted by Manic Fox on November 19, 1999, at 8:32:11
I do agree with you about their being a difference between religion and faith, but your idea of faith is just as man-made as you state religion is...
CarolAnn's reply:...Not really, my point was, that no matter what a person has Faith in, they should gather as much knowledge as they can(including reading the bible and other religious works)and let their own minds be guided to their own personal Faith in God. Rather than letting the ideas of mortal humans(how can any *human* presume to know the mind of God?)dictate what to believe about an Immortal Being such as God.
M F's words:
>> Most people don't like to look at the fact that there is absolute truth, because to acknowledge that would be the same as admitting their own limitations. I hope one day you do find the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-present God of the Bible...C'Ann's reply: Who do you think I'm talking about when I say I have Faith? I have found the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-present God, This is "who" I have my Faith in. Why do I have to celebrate my Faith to the tune of words which may have come from God originally, but over time(and proven human error,mistranslation for example), may have become something entirely different from what God intended? Why do I have to believe in God the way that a specific "Religion" demands ie, Catholics and "the no birthcontrol" thing or Baptists and the "no drinking" thing?
I cannot claim to know the mind of God, therefore I cannot credit any other human being with knowing the mind of God. The only mind I can know is my own. And the best way to learn from my mind is to keep it constantly open to any knowledge that God wants to send my way, thus enabling me to find the "Absolute Truth" which God himself has designed for me.
Disclaimer:
This is my own personal philosophy and is in no way intended to convert or offend anyone!CarolAnn
Posted by CC on November 19, 1999, at 18:42:41
In reply to Re: Religion does NOT equal faith., posted by CarolAnn on November 19, 1999, at 15:24:46
"Why do I have to
believe in God the way that a specific "Religion" demands ie, Catholics and "the no
birthcontrol" thing or Baptists and the "no drinking" thing?
I cannot claim to know the mind of God, therefore I cannot credit any other human
being with knowing the mind of God. The only mind I can know is my own. And the
best way to learn from my mind is to keep it constantly open to any knowledge that
God wants to send my way, thus enabling me to find the "Absolute Truth" which God
himself has designed for me."
Those are denominations of a religion. How do you know any information sent your way is from God? Do you not believe in evil? If you had a way to compare your experiences to historical collective experiences would you use it? What if an adversary, (Satan), wants to fill your head with appealing politically correct nonsense?
"Why do I have to celebrate my Faith to the tune of words which may have come from
God originally, but over time(and proven human error,mistranslation for example), may
have become something entirely different from what God intended?"
The accuracy of the Bible's translations can be tested by comparing it to various different sources of earily manuscripts. So to assume that a bunch of errors have accumulated over time is uninformed. Any good modern Bible should be true to the original writting and gives alternative translations to passages in the foot notes.
Posted by Manic Fox on November 20, 1999, at 9:10:42
In reply to Faith does not necessarily imply its in a religion, posted by CC on November 19, 1999, at 18:42:41
CC, I'm responding to the following:
> I cannot claim to know the mind of God, therefore I cannot credit any other human being with knowing the mind of God. The only mind I can know is my own. And the best way to learn from my mind is to keep it constantly open to any knowledge that God wants to send my way, thus enabling me to find the "Absolute Truth" which God
himself has designed for me."
Response: It is interesting that this person, as a lot of others in this world, see keeping an open mind to Satan's subtle humanism as receiving information from God. The "Absolute Truth" designed by God is still the same yesterday, today and forever, His living Word, the Bible.
It is also rather ironic when people would rather trust their own knowledge and instincts, when (get this) we are in a page called "Psycho Babble." Stands to reason. Thankfully, I have a God who is in control and on whom I can rely at any time.Oh, and someone mentioned "why existence?" That is simple. For fellowship with God of their own free will.
Manic Fox
Posted by S. Suggs on November 20, 1999, at 15:04:18
In reply to Re: Faith does not necessarily imply its in a religion, posted by Manic Fox on November 20, 1999, at 9:10:42
Great question "why existence?"
The reason we are here is to "glorify God and enjoy Him forever" or as another has put it, "to glorify God BY enjoying Him forever". John Piper (theologian) stated that "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him". God is a relational Being and we truly find our purpose/reason for existence, in bringing glory and honour to Him in all we do.
Blessings,
S. Suggs
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 20, 1999, at 17:25:29
In reply to Re: Faith does not necessarily imply its in a religion, posted by S. Suggs on November 20, 1999, at 15:04:18
> Great question "why existence?"
>
> The reason we are here is to "glorify God and enjoy Him forever" or as another has put it, "to glorify God BY enjoying Him forever". John Piper (theologian) stated that "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him". God is a relational Being and we truly find our purpose/reason for existence, in bringing glory and honour to Him in all we do.
>
> Blessings,
>
> S. Suggs
Great answer.Sincerely,
Scott
Posted by bigbertha on November 21, 1999, at 0:51:00
In reply to Re: Faith does not necessarily imply its in a religion, posted by S. Suggs on November 20, 1999, at 15:04:18
I wish everyone on these threads could
get together on Thanksgiving and have this
delicious discussion (and pie!) in person. I
believe we could keep the food-fights to a
minimum!>Why existence?
Who REALLY knows? Outside of persons who believe in reincarnation or find answers
to this in writings such as the Koran or Bible, I don't
know anyone who has ANY memory of who or where they
were prior to birth (puleeeeze NO new thread!). But if belief in these articles
of "faith" help you here and now (especially in non-violence issues), then
that's wonderful.Second, IMVHO, Life at all moments in time/space
and gummi bears, is a mystery and conundrum. The best analogy
I have are those lovely Russian nested dolls that
keep surprising,and even frustrating the person who's
curiosity opens the first to open the first one. And isn't that
what we do throughout our entire lives? Whether you're talking about
your existence or science or wiener-dogs. Some open only the first
doll,find exactly what they need and never go any further. Some
can never even open the first doll or slam shut those previously opened
because their lives are in such turmoil due to fear, depression, etc, etc.
Some need to go all the way. The bottom line is: everyone has a different
journey and everyone will die. What happens after that is ANYONE's
guess/estimate/belief, etc.
>God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him".
>God is a relational Being and we truly find our purpose/reason
>for existence, in bringing glory and honour to Him in all we do.I envy all posters who have found their answers and can rest. I wish
for this every day but my "prayers" seem hollow and questions go unanswered.
But I also feel somewhat sorry too, for in my search for this Beautiful
Being, my curiosity gives me the strength to find the find the truth for me
and question things. On the days when I feel well mentally, it is truly a
wondrous journey. The other days....Have a Wonderful Holiday and I thank all those who have to work!
Fini
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 21, 1999, at 8:01:26
In reply to Dolls and the Journey for Pi(e), posted by bigbertha on November 21, 1999, at 0:51:00
Nice.
I don't know why I am still attracted to this thread. (Of course I do). Religion and politics are the two subjects that are said to be best avoided. I can't help myself. No self-control, I guess.
I think a discussion about the role religion and/or spirituality plays in our lives can be important. This is especially true with respect to the difficult journey that affective disorders force us to travel - and it can be a long one. I know that the belief in a higher power has helped many people hold-on. Suicide is far too common an outcome. This is tragic.
What helps *you* get through it?
What helps *you* hold-on?We all know that these questions will be answered in many different ways reflecting many different belief systems. Instead of shooting holes in a perhaps fragile frame that keeps someone alive, maybe we can help support the structure with caring and sharing.
- Scott
Posted by CarolAnn on November 21, 1999, at 12:00:37
In reply to Re: Dolls and the Journey for Pi(e), posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 21, 1999, at 8:01:26
When I started this type of thread, it was my hope that an *open-minded*, nonjudgemental, discussion forum would be the result.
Instead:
Almost every responder to my posts, has refused to understand that the basic message in all of them is this: Don't be a victim of blind faith. After all, Why would God give us such wonderful, complex, questing minds if he didn't want us to keep them *open*? I love God, I worship God, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, with all my heart! What right does any mere human have to say that God will refuse my love, unless I: practice Confession(as a Catholic), give up alcohol(as a Baptist-I mean, even Jesus drank wine), let my husband have more then one wife(as a Morman), or *any* other rule that *humans* have created as necessary to *any* of their Religions?
Until the day that God shows up and tells me to "stop using the open mind" he gave me, "stop worshipping him as a God of love & forgiveness, and start worshipping him by obeying the rules and regulations of a specific Religion"; until the day that God personally tells me to close my mind and my mouth, I will worship him as my loving Creator. And I will worship him with all my heart, all my soul, all my being, and yes, all of my *open* mind! I will end this with my last words on the subject: "Judge not, lest ye be judged", and "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". In love and hope, CarolAnn
Posted by S. Suggs on November 21, 1999, at 12:04:43
In reply to Re: Dolls and the Journey for Pi(e), posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 21, 1999, at 8:01:26
What helps one get through / helps one hold on? Great question, probably with a lot of different answers. My opinion is that the Lord is holding on, not me.
I'll agree, suicide is an all too frequent and unfortunate outcome. I know that it is true that "perception is reality" and that when I am at one of my extended low points, my perception is really off, and therefore, so is my viewpoint of reality. Every time, God does remain consistant in showing He loves me regardless of what I do or say.
A lot of times, I have found that my prayers have gone unanswered. I later realized that an unanswered prayer is in fact an answer (ie. I was never supposed to have what I was asking for and/or due to impure motives).
Blessings,
S. Suggs
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.