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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 23:02:40
It is the Halloween season, afterall....
I was in the local B&N today when I decided to check out some of the books that have been appearing in various threads. You know how bookstores will take a section of their racks and instead of stuffing books spine-out into them, they display a few featured books covers out? Well, I hit a section with most of the books mentioned. Oh, and then there was "Sex Tips from a Dominatrix" right below them all, too.
Anyway, I picked up Jamison's new one and started reading the jacket info. It reminded me quite vividly of how much I identified with her descriptions of depression and how much I envied her manias. But there was Jamison's book on suicide, the jacket talking about the writings of people who have taken their own life that are included. Another book about depression ... something about black dogs ... the Beast ... even a book on how psychotropes are doing us more harm than good.
It quickly became so overwhelming -- I really had wanted to buy one or two to read, but I found that I didn't want to identify with any of these people ... particularly those authors who write their memoirs of depression and, according to the jackets, emerge somehow triumphant from the experience.
When I was a junior in college, we read Ordinary People for a psych class. I hated that book. They got it all wrong. The paper I wrote on it was so, I dunno, venemous ... my TA must have truly been clueless not to see what was going on in what I wrote. One brother drowns. The other fails at committing suicide (one of the parts they got wrong ... I felt he should have succeeded).
Is there a point somewhere in here? I guess its just to ask how all y'all deal with it -- how you deal with reading the accounts of others the way they get packed in a book? Insight? Catharsis? Or a sympathetic vibration that drives you down?
I think I'll stick with listening to CDs on the subway for the next few weeks....
Bob
Posted by Racer on October 27, 1999, at 0:51:26
In reply to Scary books, posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 23:02:40
I do read some of these books, but only when I'm feeling good. Mostly, if I do read a book about depression, I want it to be about the physical side: what's happening in my brain and body, what chemicals are involved, how does it relate to other things that go on in my body, etc. The experiences of strangers do not interest me.
The experiences of people on this board, on the other hand, do interest me, largely because it's a dialog, not a monologue. The fact that we exchange information in both directions makes it valuable in a way that someone else's experiences wouldn't be.
Other than that, I know that what I read has a profound effect on me, and so I avoid certain things when I am heading into or out of a depression.
Story: last year, when the depression was really bad, I lost a friend. There were a lot of things involved, but the one that comes to mind right now is that she kept urging me to read a book that 'really helped me when I was depressed'. I kept trying to explain that I might read it when I got better, but couldn't do it right then. She kept pushing. I finally sat down and did the self-assessment test in it, the one that says if you score over 14 you should hie thee to a professional? I scored 43 - but only because I was on an up day. I knew what would happen if I read it. I'd get to thinking that I must be hopeless, since I didn't have the energy to do anything the book said, and since all of it was too much for me. (No, I didn't read it, but I did skim the chapters, etc.) She couldn't understand that, and thought I was malingering.
Anyway, I don't read that sort of book when I'm having troubles, because I do compare myself and get overwhelmed. So, here's some advice: next time you walk into B&N, check out the psych shelves, get a little overwhelmed and then walk on to the Mystery section and pick up a copy of the following books by Sharyn McCrumb: If Ever I Return, Pretty Peggy-O; The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter; She Walks These Hills; and The Rosewood Casket. They'll do more for you than any number of psych books... (Hell, everyone's different, but they 'really helped me when I was depressed'!!)
Posted by dj on October 27, 1999, at 1:50:31
In reply to Scary books, posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 23:02:40
I've read and reread portions of The Beast, Styron's -- Darkness Visible, O'Conner's Undoing Depression & Jamison's An Unquiet Mind, Letter to a Younger Son, Advice from a Failure, Williamson's Return to Love, Ackerman's A Slender Thread and other books at various times when feeling down and found them uplifting, partly because they are thoughful & well-written. Partly because they show how people have come through adverse periods. Partly because they are reminders that I am not alone.
Kinda like listenting to Tom Waits, though at times one can also look at these folks with a janudiced eye and say well at least they are well enough to write or sing about it but that's far removed from where I am. Those are my darker moments, however generally I find them uplifting in various ways.
I scanned Jamison's Night Falls Fast on the weekend attempting to glean some fresh insights & solutions, which is also part of the reason I keep coming back to babble...I found the parts I scanned interesting: reading for instance the horrific account of the way Merriweather Lewis (of Lewis & Clark the explorers fame) took his life was not entirely pleasant but it was enlightening to see that even this heroic explorer was plagued with demons.
To me these sort of books are of more benefit thatn the lightweight pap, sap and crap that passes for pseudo-psychology in so many bookstores. And of course I can't forget having read Prisig's Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance or Mark Vonnegut's The Eden Express. These examples of real people struggling with real adversity and problems and overcoming some of them (but not always and not always easily) is much more uplifting to me than the Movie of the Week, Friends, David Letterman or any of that other inane crap which dominates our society, though on occasion even those can provide some relief if not disbelief...
And of course for real uplift there's Monty Python. And if you want to read a real life horror story go read the financial pages of the newspapers or books like Liar's Poker, Barbarians at the Gate, etc..Those offer up more travesty and tragedy than you'll find in any of the books you scanned at the bookstore.
Posted by dove on October 27, 1999, at 10:02:25
In reply to Re: Not so Scary books, posted by dj on October 27, 1999, at 1:50:31
When I'm down I absolutely cannot read those pop-psychology books, actually I can never handle them. The text-book sort are more interesting than reading about someone's long fight with depression, mostly because I already know all that. I agree with Racer, no need for a monologue when you can have a dialogue. The textbooks give you raw material to work with. Those stupid quizes piss me off big time! And, why should we be jealous of Jamison and her wonderful mania's where she is so creative, right, and that is suppose to help those who struggle with depression/bipolar/mania?
Maybe I read her wrong but she hasn't really given me any hope and no matter what she writes it is always overshadowed by the amazing descriptions of all the incredible people that did these incredible things and then ended their lives or were locked up. She says that they would have been better if they had been given help but the way she describes their lives and creations erases any logical consequences and do not promote getting help or taking lithium. Am I reading her wrong? Anyone else ever notice this?
I also love McCrumb, she is such a great story-teller, the weaving of past and present and the culture of the mountain dwellers, amazing stuff. No single author refreshes and entertains me more than her. So, that's what I read when I'm really low and have no energy to think. She tricks me into thinking and laughing and talking. I just wish she's write more and faster :-)
dove
Posted by Bob on October 27, 1999, at 14:52:40
In reply to Re: Not so Scary books, posted by dove on October 27, 1999, at 10:02:25
Geez, dj, just when I was going to dedicate a dictionary thread to you--a place where people can come and state their descriptions of TLAs and FLAs and geekSpeak and technoPsychoBabble--you had to go and mention Pirsig and Zen ... I have never been able to finish that book. Yikes!
Dove, as for being jealous of Jamison, all that creativity and energy that her manias gave her is exactly why. After living in unipolar limbo for all the life that I can remember, my first experience with Zoloft sent me flying pretty high. I think if I had not had that one manic experience of my own, I wouldn't have the basis for any jealousy. But its like having a dream (as in sleep, not goal or aspiration) that you want to recapture every time you go to bed. I've had three events that were either dreams of flying or out-of-body experiences, and many nights the hope that I might have that dream again is the last thing on my mind before I fall asleep. The same thing with that mania; having one taste of it isn't enough. It makes me think that not only do I have bad genes, but I have the wrong bad genes.
Bob
Posted by Carol on October 27, 1999, at 15:46:45
In reply to Scary books, posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 23:02:40
I don't like to read about other peoples depression "success" stories either, makes me jealous! I have been reading more "self-help" type books (usually only on "good" days). A couple of them struck me as really horrible though. That "Life Strategies" thing, (Phil Magraw, I think) just felt like I was being beat up! Like no matter how much I tried to improve, it would never be enough unless I did every single thing, exactly the way he described, to effect change. There was no sense at all of encouragement for "trying" to do things. Anyway, I ended up feeling worse, so advise against it!
Any suggestions on better books like this?
Posted by Bob on October 27, 1999, at 16:04:06
In reply to Re: Scary books, posted by Carol on October 27, 1999, at 15:46:45
> Any suggestions on better books like this?
Wings of Joy by Sri Chinmoy. He's a very interesting teacher. He makes me think he's half Buddhist, half Quaker. I took a meditation course from a student of his. This is not the stuff you'd want if you consider yourself a cynic and a better person because of it.
For example, I was just reading his thoughts on the nature of humility: "Humility means giving joy to others. Here on earth we want to get joy. But how do we get joy? Real joy we get from self-giving, not by possessing or showing our own supremacy. When we allow others to get joy, then we feel that our own joy is more complete, more perfect, more divine. By making others feel that they are either equally important or more important, we show our true humility."
If you can't see the relevance, just think about how you feel when you can answer someone's guestion here or lend some support on a problem.
Bob
Posted by Janice on October 27, 1999, at 20:56:11
In reply to Re: Not so Scary books, posted by dove on October 27, 1999, at 10:02:25
I read Jamison autobiographical book, and I thought that is the most pollyannish version of mental illness I could ever imagine. She's a bit too WASPish for me.
I like books on biology, like racer. And books that give me good practical advice. And books that help me understand why I am the way I am. I feel if I don't understand, there is NO HOPE whatsoever.
No self-help books because all everyone is basically saying is, 'My way is the only way' or maybe a kinder way to put it is, and 'this is what helped me, so it should help you'. They can't help someone like me. They somehow make me feel I am responsible for the condition I am in.
I agree Bob, the worst thing about many manias is the reality that follows. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever be satisfied with reality again.
I hate the constant struggle. At 34 I am finally beginning to develope a baseline. One of the very worst things about being hyper-sensitive is being so pathetically sensitive to how I'm feeling at every single moment of the day. There is no break! I am always painfully conscious of myself!
It felt great to express myself on this thread. thanks Bob, Janice.
One time mania is not fair! And there is no justice for the mentally ill.
This is the end of the thread.
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