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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PL on July 14, 1999, at 11:19:44
Your ideas of how weight set-point affects feelings of body image makes me think of any analogy to depression. I think as children, how much fun we had or didn't have has a lot to do with depression as adults. I think all children need to be happy or they create it artificially.
Children that become normal adults feel happiness when they get a good grade, when they talk and play with their friends, go to a movie or the park, make the swim team or are made president of the chess club. Their set point for happiness is at a normal level. But suppose these things don't happen.
In that case artificial happiness may occur when they watch TV with their parents NOT fighting. (My dad used to say we "Live in a mad house.") Or a day at school when no one picks on them. Or they get to sleep late on a Saturday.
Suppose the happiness set point of depressed people is at such a low level that they are overwhelmed by really good things. They can't find pleasure from getting a raise at work, going to the theater or taking a ride in the county. Instead, they instigate arguments with their family so they can feel guilty, and everyone is upset, just like when they were kids. They cry uncontrollably for doing this then feel better when they are forgiven.
They get psychotically unhappy about little things, like running out of detergent, finding a spot on a shirt, or having to sew on a button and end up hysterical which brings on suicidal fantasizes and hating themselves for letting these things happen. Later, if they don't die, they feel better. When you hit bottom, you can only go up, if just a little. (Like banging your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop.)
Posted by Annie on July 14, 1999, at 13:42:58
In reply to Racer's Set Point and Ideas on Depression, posted by PL on July 14, 1999, at 11:19:44
Hmmm. Your post greatly intrigues me, but I'm not certain where you're going with the analogy. I don't think people with happy childhoods are immune to depression as adults and unhappy children are to doomed to adult depression.
I agree that those of us with extremely dysfunctional childhoods, may find that exhilarating, storybook kind of happiness frightening. Maybe because it is so alien to us and/or because we're afraid we'll be devastated when it goes away. Our capacity to experience happiness was stunted as children. If you were too happy, something horrible was bound to happen. Peace and quiet was happiness. Not crying was happiness. Not hurting was happiness. Not being hungry was happiness. Anything more was overwhelming and threatening. This was learned and I think it can be unlearned. I think that this is a separate problem from depression. It exacerbates the depression and vice versa, but it existed before the depression and could exist when the depression is gone. Having depression and the introspection that comes with it, have offered me the opportunity to look at 'normal' in a new light. There are highs and lows --- not just baseline. I want to be able to relish the highs when I have them and tolerate the lows while they last. Racer's weight set-point is a perfect weight for her height. I don't want to accept a set-point for happiness that is less than perfect. Not perfect happiness, but perfect capacity for happiness. I do agree that while we are in a depressive episode, we should try to appreciate the little things and maybe that is what you are saying. What do you think? Help me understand.
Annie> Your ideas of how weight set-point affects feelings of body image makes me think of any analogy to depression. I think as children, how much fun we had or didn't have has a lot to do with depression as adults. I think all children need to be happy or they create it artificially.
>
> Children that become normal adults feel happiness when they get a good grade, when they talk and play with their friends, go to a movie or the park, make the swim team or are made president of the chess club. Their set point for happiness is at a normal level. But suppose these things don't happen.
>
> In that case artificial happiness may occur when they watch TV with their parents NOT fighting. (My dad used to say we "Live in a mad house.") Or a day at school when no one picks on them. Or they get to sleep late on a Saturday.
>
> Suppose the happiness set point of depressed people is at such a low level that they are overwhelmed by really good things. They can't find pleasure from getting a raise at work, going to the theater or taking a ride in the county. Instead, they instigate arguments with their family so they can feel guilty, and everyone is upset, just like when they were kids. They cry uncontrollably for doing this then feel better when they are forgiven.
>
> They get psychotically unhappy about little things, like running out of detergent, finding a spot on a shirt, or having to sew on a button and end up hysterical which brings on suicidal fantasizes and hating themselves for letting these things happen. Later, if they don't die, they feel better. When you hit bottom, you can only go up, if just a little. (Like banging your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop.)
Posted by PL on July 14, 1999, at 18:34:10
In reply to Re: Racer's Set Point and Ideas on Depression, posted by Annie on July 14, 1999, at 13:42:58
I've never felt at peace.
Posted by Annie on July 14, 1999, at 19:57:17
In reply to Re: Racer's Set Point and Ideas on Depression, posted by PL on July 14, 1999, at 18:34:10
> I've never felt at peace.
If my post upset you, I am sorry. I found your post thought provoking and I wanted to understand and I guess to be understood. I think there is hope for us.
I hope that someday, maybe soon, you will feel peace. I hope the day after that you will feel Happiness. The day after that, joy.
I hope these things for me too, and for all the caring people here.
Annie
Posted by Been There on July 15, 1999, at 11:11:35
In reply to Re: Racer's Set Point and Ideas on Depression, posted by PL on July 14, 1999, at 18:34:10
> I've never felt at peace.
PL, you and I must be (and must have been) neighbors because I, too, have NEVER truly
felt peace. Oh the medication and therapy have improved my life and
I have one or two friends who understand. But I would give anything
to have one moment of not looking behind any success (what's that?)
wondering who actually did it (never me) and how long before the it's
taken away. My dad was an alcoholic/perfectionist with a stressful job and who
probably was clinically depressed, yaddayaddayadda. My mom was a really intelligent
person who never was able to achieve what she could have partly because of the
battles which went on daily almost to the day he died at 63 (oh did I mention the adultery). They were so bad you could hear them
duking it out all over our neighborhood; I used to hide in the basement shaking with terror
until they took a break and decided it was time to pick on me. Although I was never physically abused
I was verbally lashed for any transgression. And of course, eventually I had to face
the neighbor kids - you can just imagine THAT scenario. There's MUCH more but you get the picture: trust no one or anything (even yourself).Annie, I envy you since you seem to have found that place where you are in
command of these feelings. I hope that PL and I can get there too, someday.
This is the end of the thread.
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