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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 4:14:05
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 4:00:13
you can go to the olympics if you get good enough.
or there is powerlifting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhYft_haqpU
or strongman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43MtB2vSKY&feature=related
or even the dreaded crossfit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjdQZxTIj1U&feature=related
Posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 4:44:56
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 4:14:05
The trouble is that there aren't many gyms anymore. Instead we have the dreaded 'health club' or something like that. Often full of girls doing endless cardio in their efforts to look like a holocaust survivors and boys doing bench and curls in their efforts to look athletic. Can be a meat market. Can be patronizing with respect to the level of athleticism or strength or fitness exhibited and encouraged by the personal trainers.
Can be hard to find a decent bunch of people or a decent trainer.
Of course you don't really need one...
Milo was an ancient greek dude who carried a baby calf around on his back every day. Eventually the calf grew into a massive bull and Milo got his self pretty damned strong that way. Principle of progressive overload. Pick up something manageable a few times. Next time pick up something slightly heavier... Slightly heavier... Eventually... You should be able to pick up something that weighs as much as yourself in a year. Something that weighs one and a half times as much as yourself in a couple years... Some people pick stuff up that is more like twice or even three times their bodyweight.
People.
If you factor in muscle mass... Girls have less than guys because our skeletal frames are smaller and because we have less testosterone etc to fuel its growth. But if you have a guy and a girl with the same amount of muscle mass their potential for strength is the same. Girls are capable of being much much stronger than we tend to think. Guys are too, come to think of it. A lot of the regular bicep and bench guys can't even bench their own bodyweight.
I started because I thought I should. Kept a record of what I could do... Got totally hooked once I saw that I was getting stronger. Noticed side benefits like my muscles grew (made me look more curvy / shapely), my fat diminished, I felt stronger more powerful and capable. Athletic. Self confident. Self possessed. Never gonna look back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS8Tqmf67rI
She's 64.
Lifting heavy weights is the fountain of youth, I swear. You wouldn't believe the guys at my gym who are in their 50's (look like their early 30's) and late 60's (look in their early / mid 40's).
Retaining muscle mass and functional movement (squat, deadlift, lunge, overhead press).
It is never too late to start. The strength community is actually very accepting and encouraging of new members. You do need some inner motivation - but it is easy to come by if you keep a record and see your progress for yourself.
Just don't whatever you do start lifting 1 or 2 or even 5 or 10kg dumbbells for a bajillion reps and think you will get 'toned' that way. It is a waste of time. Ditto for shake weights that tone through vibration or... Walking poles for sculpting the arms. Sorry. Principle of progressive overload. You won't look like a woman who takes steroids if you don't take steroids. Your body will look however it is supposed to look when you are fit and healthy. Most people find fit and healthy attractive. The thing to do is to get strong. Strong bones. Strong muscles. Fountain of youth.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 4:59:19
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 4:14:05
These were fun to watch. I bet it's fun. My son liked them, too. The first post, we were adoring the woman who would cry out before almost every lift. And adjust her belt.
I have watched strong man events many times. Go figure--a gym-phobe like myself.
Some of the best power lifters are the Russians and eastern Europeans. Well, it's been a few years. That might have changed. It's one sport that the short-legged can dominate.
Awesome! Thanks :D
Posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:07:43
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 4:59:19
> It's one sport that the short-legged can dominate.
Yes, indeed. My long limbs / levers work against me lol.
Seriously, though...
People hate on crossfit a bit but they are good for teaching decent (effective) exercises and turning average folks (who don't take themselves to be athletic) and turning them into... Athletes, basically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzD9BkXGJ1M&feature=related
Passion. That is what is missing from most gyms. You need a bit of dedication / regularity in your training - but not really all that much before you can do something that you couldn't do before. Then that is the time to get excited and fired up by your accomplishment! Then on to your next goal. Helps a lot if you can find others to encourage you on... But not necessary.
Maybe you and your son could train together...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:13:55
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:07:43
me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twkZ5tLvna0
first joined the gym: August 2009
first started learning olympic weightlifting: 1 year ago at easter.when i first started learning olympic weightlifting I couldn't even lift the women's bar (weighs 15kg) lol. still practice with a broomstick sometimes.
i feel better than i was 10 years ago... better than ever, actually :-)
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 12:36:25
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:13:55
That's amazing :D. Thanks! You are long-limbed. And flexible? That can be another challenge, too.
I didn't convert kg to pounds. 36 kg?
So I have a relative who does this and it manages greatly though not completely symptoms of BPl. He took me into a gym. It was really insane in a good, wild
way. I walked on a treadmill while he wrapped weights on himself and did one arm pull ups.
I want the hiking poles not for arm
sculpting. I need to begin activity again, and right now, my osteopath has contraindicated just about anything. I have spine issues with some damage. Right now I'd be pleased to walk and go in a warm pool.I've read that light weight training and
cross training (not exactly crossfit) can increase muscle mass in people 80-90+ years of age. In fact, it's reccomended.Your enthusiasm is catchy :D
My son watched with great interest. We watched one link were a man flipped into a standing pose from a sitting kneel.Awesome! Keep it up. Yay! Do you compete?
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on April 28, 2011, at 14:55:43
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by floatingbridge on April 27, 2011, at 18:38:17
> Cool, Jay. I want run it past my osteopath first because I have carpal tunnel, too. (When it rains, it pours.) But that you feel that much weightbearing stress reduction sounds fantastic.
>
> There is a brand that pops up when I first Google the poles--I forget what, but they have angled grips that reduce grip stress and make straps unnecessary. Try
> those?
>
> fb
>
> Yeah, shoes. Mine are so beat. But I might be looking at orthonics anyways. Thanks for the reminder :D
>You are very welcome. The ones I have are a bit older of a model...from about 5 years ago. They are kinda like a 'ski pole' type. But I have heard of those newer ones that have better grip design and such. Most importantly you have to feel as comfortable as possible, so I'd definitely go for the newer design ones. Usually your local specialty footware store should carry all of the good quality orthotic stuff too. I am having some really good success with a particular cross-trainer Nike model shoe that ran me about 180 bucks, plus the insert was another 300 dollars, and I can walk the furthest yet than I ever have in comfort. Add the walking poles, and it is just wonderful exercise. Now I don't feel like I am in such intense pain even after walking for an hour. Before, I could barely put in a half-hour of walking and not feel like I just ran the Boston Marathon. lol. It is all based on good science, too, as they know so much about orthotics. And I am developing arthritis in my legs and back (like you said...when it rains it pours..haha) and this also helps quite a bit.
Especially for us on medications, I still have a ways to go, but brisk walking (esp. with poles and the shoes) can make it easier to lose those pounds put on by meds. Let me know what you find...how you make out..
Jay :)
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 19:58:00
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:13:55
Alex Floatingbridge I don't feel knows your history. Could you manage to give a bit of it the physical ones. So inspiring Love Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 4:47:16
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 12:36:25
about 5 years ago i smashed up my feet / ankles pretty bad. 30% loss in height to my lumbar / thoracic junction. fractured pelvis. burst calcaneus (heel). pretty smashed up midfeet. weber C fracture to left leg... have pins and screws etc still in both ankles. was told i'd probably never be able to walk without crutches, and i still have trouble walking, truth be told.
took me about 3 months to learn to squat. my hips didn't much like it to start with. some broken glass feeling in the joints. i persisted (fairly gently) and eventually the broken glass feeling went away and now i have the best range of motion in my hips i ever remember having. my ankle dorsiflexion is pretty much non-existent. not sure how much that is because of the pins in my ankles or how much it is soft tissue restriction. been working on that pretty hard for the last year. my feet are the best they have ever been since my injury, but they are still very far from normal.
i got some of these a couple months ago:
http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/barefoot-sports/
my toes are starting to uncurl. my arches are starting to strengthen (one flat arch is starting to develop, one cramped arch is starting to relax).
i need to squat in shoes that have 2x standard Olympic Lifting heel raise because otherwise I can't squat, though... You will notice I sit my butt back behind my midfoot rather than sitting my butt down between my legs (which would require my knees to move more in front of my ankles).
Where there is a will there is a way...
> 36 kg?
79.37 pounds.
I got 39.5kg two days ago (87 pounds).
This time last year I literally was not physically strong enough in my legs to stand up from seated without using my arms.
> I have spine issues with some damage. Right now I'd be pleased to walk and go in a warm pool.
I hear you. Squatting is simply sitting down and standing up without using your arms, though. There is a way of holding your spine (in a good lumbar curve) for squatting weight and for deadlifting (picking up things like potatoes or rice or toddlers or TV's). If you develop the mobility to hold a good lumbar arch and then practice holding your lumbar arch with weight (in the squat and deadlift) then you will be amazed at what weights you can lift safely.
> I've read that light weight training and
> cross training (not exactly crossfit) can increase muscle mass in people 80-90+ years of age. In fact, it's reccomended.Light weight training? You mean lifting things that are lighter than your bags of potatoes or rice or toddler or handbag even? Sorry... But that won't really do sh*t.
I mean... Something is better than nothing, true. If you are used to doing nothing then doing something will result in your body adapting to new demands... But you gotta keep making your body do that little bit more than it did last time in order to force it to adapt to those new demands.
I bet you are capable of being much much much much much stronger than you think. Safely.
1st - learn the functional movements:
Squat
Lunge
Deadlift
Horizontal Press
Horizontal Pull
Vertical Press
Vertical PullOnly when you can do the movement comfortably should you attempt to add weight (gradually!) By all means start with 1kg. But then when you can do three sets of 8-12 repetitions PUT THE WEIGHT UP. Gradually. The calf didn't become a bull overnight lol.
I've done one relatively informal competition. I can snatch okay (in the vid). Have trouble jerking, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXlcA7VCRyM
The second part of the lift when you jerk it from your shoulders to overhead. My toes claw a bit into the ground so I can't lunge / balance the weight comfortably on the ball of my back foot.
I'm going to need to learn to squat jerk for competitions. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP-eRlIvfF8&feature=related
I'm still working on developing the shoulder flexibility and balance. Will probably take me quite a while before that is stronger than my push-press:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLcntfkyXbM
You need to catch it with elbows locked out for competition (can't push it up).
I'll be 35 in a couple years... Hopefully I'll be competitive in the Masters Level :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 4:54:53
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 19:58:00
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/proper_back_position_for_power
the above is a link to an article on 'the proper back position for power'. if you have any spinal troubles whatsoever (and even if you don't) a top priority should be learning how to adopt this back position. firstly unweighted. it should be mastered before it is safe to add weight. once it is mastered you are safe to add as much weight as you possibly can WHILE MAINTAINING THE PROPER BACK POSITION.
i'm still working on mine (have some dull / nagging pain that reminds me when i'm not holding it as tightly as I should be).
young people can often get away with loading up without maintaining this position. it will bite them on the *ss eventually, though, as they will injure their back...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 18:31:55
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 4:54:53
I don't think Ripptoe tends to deal with many people who are injured. He mostly deals with college level athletes. I do think that many people (including women!) can have trouble producing and maintaining their lumbar extension after back injury.
My lumbar spine has had a dull nagging kind of ache since my injury. The way I dealt with it was mostly to tune it out / ignore it. I've had to re-learn how to be properly aware of the position of my lower back in order to produce the lumbar extension and feel when it is starting to be pulled out in weighted movements.
Where is your spinal injury? Lumbar / thoracic junction or somewhere else?
I didn't mean to be totally dismissive of the idea of light weight training producing results...
But there is a world of difference between 'maintenence' and 'improvement'. Because of the age related decline you actually need to improve in order to maintain - if that makes sense. And... You probably want to make up for some of the decline that has already happened since your early 20's...
It is a bit hard, though...
When I first started at the gym I got a machine weights program. I did that for 3 months and it was actually pretty good for me because I learned what muscles each machine was supposed to work (helpful pictures on the machines) and learned to have some voluntary control over the activation of the muscles. I was also really weak. Had difficulty doing three sets of 8-10 at the lightest weight.
Progress comes so very fast when you just start out... Only took one or two weeks before I could put the weight up and get the 8-10 reps! That was what got me hooked... Feeling that I was making progress.
After 3 months I got a free weights program. Squat, Lunge, and some dumbbell exercises. I spent much longer on these without any weight at all. Learning how to hold my spine safely for overhead pressing (engage abs and glutes and don't overextend the spine) and just getting the hang of the movements. I... Probably got a bit weaker with respect to my strength on the old exercises... But these are functional movements and now I'm able to use them in my daily life (e.g., squat to sit, lunge to pick up stuff from the ground, press to put stuff on the shelf).
Squatting was really hard for me because I've got long femurs and my knees can't come in front of my ankles because of my injuries and also because i've got some crankiness in my hips so that they really don't like a wider squatting stance. Did a lot of reading on the internet trying to learn how to squat properly... And discovered the Olympic Lifts. I wanted to be able to do them with good form. Symbol of flexibility, mobility, and strength for me. Didn't know if it would be possible, but wanted to try.
Apparently if you are athletic you can expect to snatch your bodyweight in 1 year. I wasn't athletic, though, and much of my training is still focusing on mobility (still working on my back position and ankle mobility and trying to relax the tendons / muscles in my feet / lower legs). I can snatch about half my bodyweight at the moment (after 1 year). Hopefully I'll be snatching my bodyweight this time next year :-)
It is about finding something you enjoy...
But... One virtue of heavy weights is that it improves bone density (so you are less likely to fracture bones later in life). One virtue of functional movements (squat, lunge etc) is that you are less likely to lose your balance / fall later in life.Use the muscles - spare the joints.
Used to have a lot of joint pain. Then I learned that muscles are what is supposed to protect your joints. Muscles are the impact absorbers... Not your ankles and knees after all... Forefoot gentle strike and your arches will eventually progressively adapt to do what they are designed to do (the muscles in your midfeet are the primary shock absorbers for motion). Orthotics are a crutch... They might give you better mobility but it is artificial in the sense that you aren't working to rectify the weakest link. To have better mobility from within yourself...
Posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2011, at 21:38:20
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 18:31:55
Alex thanks for posting as so inspirational. Myself just 65 with cervical spurs and nerve impringment, and spinal stenosis, also some fused cervical discs on own, and have had herniated disc, healed on own a few years back. But horrible lumbar back pain. Discs are narrowed badly. MRI today and seeing neurosurgeon and spine doc. I have been active all my life weight lifting not as heavy as you, also mostly machines not free weights, was a runner average 3miles I'd say. And Aerobic Dance Instructor and choreographer before nursing and ran til age 58. Now just the bike riding six miles only. After my consult on the 16th of May will see if he wants to do shaving of bone spurs in neck to release the impringed nerves. If so think weights possible again? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on April 30, 2011, at 19:20:23
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 18:31:55
Hi Alexandra,
Thank you for your generosity in all your posts. I love your enthusiasm and how you amazingly have worked with what most would call a major setback. So please, no worries arbour the arm sculpting thing :-)
The past few days have been down days; that's why I've been pretty quiet.
I've been thinking of you though. Maybe I don't have an educated enough eye, but the video of you :D doesn't hint at what you have been through. Now that is amazing!
When you speak of orthonics, what do you personally feel about them for arthritis? Just wondering because you don't have an experience like yours w/o learning quite a bit. I don't have to follow your advice, (or opinion), but I'd like to hear it.
Btw, my husband is talking me into Aikido. I called the dojo to explain all the yadda-yadda about not being able to roll and fall, etc. No problem, they said. Come as you are.
Here's to getting moving.
Post a video or babblemail me one anytime!
Warmly,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 21:34:32
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by floatingbridge on April 30, 2011, at 19:20:23
FB I don't think the video is actually of Alex. Just demonstrations of what is possible. Aikkdo sp? What's that? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on April 30, 2011, at 21:53:46
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 21:34:32
Phillipa, I think it is. I just watched it again for a little boost. Very inspiring!
Back east we'd say, when given particularly delightful, surprising news:
No waaay. Come on. Get out! Really? Get outta here!
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 22:08:54
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on April 30, 2011, at 21:53:46
FB Alex is a lovely person first friend on babble to both me and Greg she went to bat for us. I admire and respect Alex bunches!!!! Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on April 30, 2011, at 23:52:34
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 21:34:32
This one is alex. She said so. She says "me"
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20110407/msgs/983939.html
I love it, too. So strong.
Posted by 10derheart on April 30, 2011, at 23:54:58
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:13:55
Alex,
This is totally, freakin' awesome!!!
You are a hero to me, more ways than one.
You have climbed one helluva mountain, there, young lady....and you are still climbing....don't stop
much affection.....10der
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2011, at 0:38:43
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2011, at 5:13:55
10der Alex is unbelievable how does she do it and with all the previous injuries. I do so admire her. Think we could also do it? Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 1, 2011, at 1:09:31
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2011, at 18:31:55
Hey Alex!
> Where is your spinal injury? Lumbar / thoracic junction or somewhere else?This is under investigation. Injury to the lumbar for sure. Spinal instability in lumbar, cervical, potential instability in one spot of thoracic. MRI's eventually. Degenerative discs. The big cr*ppy news is fibromyalgia and crazy fatigue. A
cranky physiatrist (spine doc) said my pain was increasing due to inactivity (before the fibromyalgia) and I knew that was true, but couldn't figure out what to do. I had been a regular brisk walker for years (since running was contraindicated :-( now that was my drug!) but felt overwhelmed and scared when walking *made* me tired. It was weird. I didn't know about fibromyalgia at first, but when I began to read about CFS--I was getting desperate--I'd bump into fibromyalgia--but that didn't make sense. No tender points.(This is the story of my collapse in response to your recovery. Sorry :( )
Anyways, yes, muscle supports joints. I know that because as I decreased activity--my joints hurt. Now I realize I have some osteoarthritis, yes, back, hips, feet (!) but not so bad. I'm so deconditioned. And it happened so rapidly. I'm trying to stabilize from that and begin moving forward.
>
> I didn't mean to be totally dismissive of the idea of light weight training producing results...We're totally good :-)
>
> But there is a world of difference between 'maintenence' and 'improvement'. Because of the age related decline you actually need to improve in order to maintain - if that makes sense. And... You probably want to make up for some of the decline that has already happened since your early 20's...
>
> It is a bit hard, though...
>
> When I first started at the gym I got a machine weights program. I did that for 3 months and it was actually pretty good for me because I learned what muscles each machine was supposed to work (helpful pictures on the machines) and learned to have some voluntary control over the activation of the muscles. I was also really weak. Had difficulty doing three sets of 8-10 at the lightest weight.
>
> Progress comes so very fast when you just start out... Only took one or two weeks before I could put the weight up and get the 8-10 reps! That was what got me hooked... Feeling that I was making progress.
>
> After 3 months I got a free weights program. Squat, Lunge, and some dumbbell exercises. I spent much longer on these without any weight at all. Learning how to hold my spine safely for overhead pressing (engage abs and glutes and don't overextend the spine) and just getting the hang of the movements. I... Probably got a bit weaker with respect to my strength on the old exercises... But these are functional movements and now I'm able to use them in my daily life (e.g., squat to sit, lunge to pick up stuff from the ground, press to put stuff on the shelf).
>I used to fence :D. The terms are used differently. Squatting is good work though. Important to yoga, too. But when you say lunge up above, do you mean like in the videos where, let's see if I can remember, when the lifter put one leg behind in a kind of skip under the weight? Man.
> Squatting was really hard for me because I've got long femurs and my knees can't come in front of my ankles
because of my injuries and also because i've got some crankiness in my hips so that they really don't like a wider squatting stance. Did a lot of reading on the internet trying to learn how to squat properly... And discovered the Olympic Lifts. I wanted to be able to do them
with good form. Symbol of flexibility, mobility, and strength for me. Didn't know if it would be possible, but wanted to try.
I can see this now in the video, now that you've talked about your form and because I have like read this thread like three times :P.Jeepers, I am wondering what you
activity and fitness routines were like before your injuries. Because you do
know this is incredible. Did you always have this focus, just on other things?>
> Apparently if you are athletic you can expect to snatch your bodyweight in 1 year. I wasn't athletic, though, and much
of my training is still focusing on mobility
(still working on my back position and ankle mobility and trying to relax the
tendons / muscles in my feet / lower legs). I can snatch about half my bodyweight at the moment (after 1 year). Hopefully I'll be snatching my bodyweight this time next year :-)
>I hope so, too!
> It is about finding something you enjoy...
True. Wish me luck. Though you sure have me curious.
> But... One virtue of heavy weights is that it improves bone density (so you are less likely to fracture bones later in life). One virtue of functional movements (squat, lunge etc) is that you are less
likely to lose your balance / fall later in
life.
>
> Use the muscles - spare the joints.
>
> Used to have a lot of joint pain. Then I learned that muscles are what is supposed to protect your joints. Muscles are the impact absorbers... Not your ankles and knees after all... Forefoot gentle strike and your arches will eventually progressively adapt to do what they are designed to do (the
muscles in your midfeet are the primary shock absorbers for motion). Orthotics are a crutch... They might give you better mobility but it is artificial in the sense that you aren't working to rectify the weakest link. To have better mobility from within yourself...Well, this is not what I expected when I inquiried about walking poles. How delightful to be surprised. You are awesome! Go team Alex :D
fb
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2011, at 4:43:20
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2011, at 21:38:20
well... i'm not a medical doctor. tried, but they didn't want me. sigh...
i heard that quite a lot of people have spinal abnormality show up on MRI. most of those people don't experience any painful symptoms, however. so... it is hard to know what is up when you have pain and they find abnormality on MRI.
one thing that might be the case... is that developing the muscles in your back (the spinal erectors etc) basically spares the spine. so the person doesn't feel pain because the muscles are supporting the joints. that is speculation, though.
i'm not sure about how good bike riding is for the spine... with respect to posture. does your back hurt after bike riding? i used to ride the stationary bike at the gym but found my back would ache if i put my hands on the handlebars so i started biking with my hands off the handlebars so my back could stay upright.
i don't know anything about bone spurs and nerve impingement...
i would be surprised, though, if your doc told you you should be sedentary before or after the procedure...
it can be hard to know about some pains... whether you should ignore them because they are just complaining or whether they are telling you you better quit that or you are really going to hurt yourself. i'm learning to listen to my body. still have a long way to go, though.
movements first. get the movements comfortable. then when you can do them comfortably (say for 3 sets of 10 or for 5 sets of 5) increase the intensity (add some weight). if you are finding pain doing the movement then see if you can learn or find a way to do the movement comfortably.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2011, at 5:21:43
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by floatingbridge on May 1, 2011, at 1:09:31
> When you speak of orthonics, what do you personally feel about them for arthritis?
well... i'm supposed to have orthotics for my feet... i think the idea is to give me a heel raise to help me walk since i don't have much ankle flexibility.
i've just recently been learning about barefoot running, though. it is a bit hard because vibram (company) have been sponsoring the studies... nothing new for medicine, though, i guess... but seems to me that humans were walking, running, and jumping (some tribes on rocks, even, so concrete pavements are no excuse) with far less feet problems than we experience today for all our designer bouncing soles footwear.
seems that what our bouncing sole designer footwear does is teach us to strike down on the ground hard with our heel. we then rock our foot forwards to launch from the ball of our foot. i can't walk like that very well because of my problems with ankle dorsiflexion, it is true.
if you look at how tribal (non-shoe wearing) people walk, run, and jump (even on rocks) they tend to use a gentler landing on the ball of their foot or more distributed through the ball and midfoot. the heel then gently lands and then a launch from the ball. vibram five finger shoes are 'minimilist' shoes that just provide a fairly thin sole (to stop you getting broken glass in your feet) and you learn to walk more like that because HEEL STRIKING HURTS!
heel striking is traumatic for your ankle, knee, and hip joints.
midfoot / ball landing will give you some muscle soreness in your midfoot (around your arches), your calves, the front of your lower leg, and your outer quad down by the knee. use the muscles spare the joints!
it is a bit slower walking like that... i'm doing a lot of stretching... stretching my toes back from the ball of my foot. stretching the heel back from the ball of my foot. i don't wear the vibrams more than about 2 hours per day because my muscles take some time to recover. but: no joint pain! no lumbar spine pain from walking / standing either!
but yes. i walk slow.
so... i could wear orthotics to give me a heel raise so i could walk like most people. but then i'd have the joint problems that most people seem to have... the muscles are strengthening (slowly, gradually) and i think that is the best rehab for them of all.
of course i am wearing orthotics in the sense that i need a significant heel raise on my weightlifting shoes in order to squat. olympic lifters typically do wear shoes with a heel raise (because they need to squat so low with an upright torso) and i need even more of a crutch than most when it comes to that. i only wear them for lifting because otherwise i can't do the lifts at all. i am still working on my feet, though, and hope i will be able to do it barefooted one day! though... that doesn't seem likely.
Aikido sounds fun! I was looking into learning a martial art... One good thing about them is that they teach you how to roll and fall etc. that kind of stuff is hard. most people need to be taught and it takes a while if you are older than, like, 7.
> This is under investigation. Injury to the lumbar for sure. Spinal instability in lumbar, cervical, potential instability in one spot of thoracic. MRI's eventually. Degenerative discs. The big cr*ppy news is fibromyalgia and crazy fatigue.
Hmm... The joints are stacked alternating stability / mobility.
E.g., ankles are supposed to be mobile, knees are supposed to be stable, hips are supposed to be mobile, lumbar spine is supposed to be stable, thoracic spine is supposed to be mobile, cervical is supposed to be stable.
If you don't have mobility where things are meant to be mobile then the next joint (the one which should be stabile) will start to become mobile and problems will result. E.g., people with immobile hips often have knee pain and / or lumbar pain. People with immobile ankles often have knee pain and / or lumbar pain. If you try and mobilize what is supposed to be stable (e.g., try and move your knees around where they aren't supposed to go or your lumbar spine) then you can create injuries for yourself, too.
Mobilization can be hard. My hips are a lot dodgey. Arthritic, I guess. Felt a bit like broken glass in the joints when I moved them. Didn't move them much because of that. Then started to mobilize them gently. Just moving them (without weight!) through a greater range of motion. Every day. Over time... The movement became comfortable and the broken glass feeling went away. I think that the joint fluid only really gets the chance to coat the joint properly when you move it. Moving it allows the joint fluid to get in there and wash out some of the gunk or whatever (pure speculation). But gentle mobilizations seem to help arthritis, yes.
FISH OIL: can't say enough good things about it. try it for yourself. some people need quite a lot of it. i notice a difference with 4 capsules per day (2 are recommended on the bottle).
GLUCOSAMINE: not entirely sure this makes a difference. take it anyway (got a bottle pretty cheap)
ANTI INFLAMMATORIES: sometimes. try not to do this too often. but will sometimes if they are feeling inflammed, yeah.By 'lunge' I just meant this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ95qwNaD78
you can weight them (and raise the back leg to make it harder) but more important to get the movement right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz7D44aAPKk&feature=related
> Did you always have this focus, just on other things?
yeah. addictive personality, i guess. always obsessed with something lol.
best of luck to you, too.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2011, at 5:28:57
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles » alexandra_k, posted by 10derheart on April 30, 2011, at 23:54:58
thanks 10.
:-)
i'll be snatching more than my max squat before you know it.
i'm not sure what my orthopedic surgeon would say... i guess he'd be happy. improving bone density. i've done my rehab stuff with respect to mobilizations / soft tissue work... i was worried to start with that it would be bad for my feet... but i think it is good.
i'm simply amazed at how tough the human body can be. like when you watch vids of bone surgeries and they are wrenching and ripping things about... our bodies... need to be handled pretty roughly to develop optimally, it seems. throwing those weights around... feels good. doesn't feel painful or precarious at all. bizzarre...
i'm scared of the weights. learning to yell. you gotta yell at them and get mad or something. the weights won't lift themselves. but they might hurt / crush you... each time the weight goes up there is a psychological battle of 'i don't think i can do this i'm scared'. but (eventually) you get it. and the weight goes up again. and you go through the same thing over and over...
now... 40kg feels a hell of a lot lighter than 10kg used to feel (damn, i remember when 10kg was SO HEAVY!!!).
it is amazing walking around in my body now... i don't fear being pushed over or trampled. guys who i used to think of as big and strong now seem small and weak. i see objects and size them up with respect to whether i could deadlift them, or snatch them, or whatever lol. mastery. yeah.
squatting is my nemesis. long femurs and no ankle dorsiflexion... they always will be.
but i might get one of them teardrop things over my quads one day :-)
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2011, at 20:00:27
In reply to Re: walking poles/hiking poles, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2011, at 4:43:20
Alex when I lifted weights the machines before moved up here and you know where here is I know. Thing is didn't have the back pain then. As for them not wanting you for a doc they missed a prize jewel for sure.
The bike riding is what's known as beach bike so no leaning over sit straight up. But yes it does hurt after riding but worse after walking and that is slow not fast. As for the surgeon per his PA and website seems that it's PT and excercise that's encouraged. Pain meds are a no no here. I did ask about the nerve impringement told in neck usuall left side free the bundles of nerves and shave bone spurs. MRI was only cervical which surprised me as pain lumbar. But after surgery l day usual in hospital. Then the PA said some do walk at home the next day so doesn't seem like a long recovery period. Well will be two weeks til see the neurosurgeon. Running also used to be my drug what a high!!!! Walking never did the same for me. Biking at least a feeling of freedom.
But I don't understand how surgery is possible with osteoporosis also and history of herniated L4-5? Healed on own. You are simply marvelous and I will now watch the new videos. After l0der said you rewatched and recognized you right away. Look marvelous!!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 16, 2011, at 15:39:49
In reply to walking poles/hiking poles, posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2011, at 10:26:46
Yay! I balanced my budget and the sticks are in the mail!
My DO will fit them to me on Thursday.
I'll still need shoes, but will make do with my ancient Nike's.
Slow and steady wins the race, but I'll be happy with finishing.
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