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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fired on December 25, 2010, at 21:04:39
I believe you said that you had been a nurse and an expert witness. You may be able to help me with this question.
Are nurses required by law to report a nurse if they observe the nurse verbally abusing a patient?
I know what they must report re:abuse, except for the above. Also, if it varies by state, any clue as to where I can find the information for California.
I've tried several California Codes with little luck.
I'm all Googled out.
Posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2010, at 21:56:54
In reply to Question for Phillipa, posted by fired on December 25, 2010, at 21:04:39
Hi Fired boy a toughie as what one considers verbal abuse might not seem so to another. I suspect you are referring to your treatment in the ER? First sad to say irreguardless of where my observation has been when assessing patients for admission on a psych floor that ER nurses are not very tolerant of patients deemed psych or out of control. So psych called down to assess. Verbal abuse is strong in meaning and on one floor might be abuse and ER not. What was said and how as if truly verbal abuse the answer is yes report to charge nurse. Who will then decide what to do with the issure. Want to babblemail me with the whole story? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on December 25, 2010, at 22:55:41
In reply to Question for Phillipa, posted by fired on December 25, 2010, at 21:04:39
I don't know if there is a law. But I would imagine that you have an ethical obligation to report it. Patients can't stand up for themselves. They need someone to act on their bahalf. I would report it.
Posted by Maxime on December 25, 2010, at 23:02:36
In reply to Question for Phillipa, posted by fired on December 25, 2010, at 21:04:39
I found the following link. https://www.crnbc.ca/downloads/436.pdf
It's for the Province of British Columbia, but it might guide you anyway.
Posted by fired on December 26, 2010, at 0:00:31
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa » fired, posted by Maxime on December 25, 2010, at 23:02:36
I will hunt for something similar for the State of California. I mentioned nurses. Had to have been at least 4 nurse witnesses. 4 of another type of profession that didn't intervene. 2 or 3 of another.
Apparently because I "started it", they felt the nurse was allowed to retaliate.
Thanks
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 0:33:53
In reply to Question for Phillipa, posted by fired on December 25, 2010, at 21:04:39
Fired you say you started it and there were witnesses of what title not sure? What exactly did this nurse say? A reprimand is about all that will happen for verbal abuse as unfortunately as I saw and googled short staffing and heart attacks, injuries etc are triaged and treated first. Did you require restraining? Either medicinally or physical as in restraints? Don't think can sue. But have been wrong before and could be this time. Lawyers also have free consultations to see if you have a case. Might want to discuss this either with hospital administrator or lawyer? Since I wasn't there to witness hard to give advise. Phillipa
Posted by fired on December 26, 2010, at 15:36:43
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa » fired, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 0:33:53
Sorry for not thanking you for your earlier remarks. I think I found out why they have been covering everything up (almost 2 months now). Well, assuming that when a patient comes in and has quite a loud verbal dispute with a nurse, and 4 security guards are brought in for either no reason, or for "just in case", wouldn't the Attending MD be notified?, and wouldn't he come and see the patient?
1) I'm assuming the attending must be on site.
2) I'm assuming he would be called for or he himself would hear the noise when I entered the ER
3) A nurse practitioner can't be an ED attending
4) The ED attendings s name (Dr.X) is on the record with a barcode stamp with my name on it in several places
5) The facesheet of my record states Dr. X on the first page.
6)The NPs name appears at the top of one page as the ED Attending.
7) I was there for at least 2 1/2 to 3 hours, How long of a break can an attending take?I think my record was intentionally falsified.
what do you think? There are many other things wrong with it. Too many to just call them mistakes.
> Fired you say you started it and there were witnesses of what title not sure? What exactly did this nurse say? A reprimand is about all that will happen for verbal abuse as unfortunately as I saw and googled short staffing and heart attacks, injuries etc are triaged and treated first. Did you require restraining? Either medicinally or physical as in restraints? Don't think can sue. But have been wrong before and could be this time. Lawyers also have free consultations to see if you have a case. Might want to discuss this either with hospital administrator or lawyer? Since I wasn't there to witness hard to give advise. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 19:37:11
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa, posted by fired on December 26, 2010, at 15:36:43
So you have copies of your records. If so that is good. I'd say security guards for just in case. That would be standard not the number just someone with that title. Or any males available. Is this a large or small hospital? Yes an Attending of the ER should be called. As to length of breaks is that what you were told the Attending was on break and a NP was in charge? Can you say exactly what caused the argument good word at this stage? And what actions to you personally were taken? Meds, restraints? I do know we had standing orders for meds to be given or if restrained same with doc called ASAP. But this was on a psych floor. We didn't have psychiatric doctors there. They were called. Frustrating sometimes as took a long time for their calls to be returned. I empathize with you. Does this hospital have a psychiatric unit? Phillipa
Posted by fired on December 26, 2010, at 21:27:21
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa » fired, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 19:37:11
Just deleted a very long answer, because it dawned on me that I can't be sure who might be reading this. Anyway, an older record combined with the problem record, should be enough to get them to do something. My problem record is so full of wrong information, much of it appearing to be intentionally entered, that I can't believe that the hospital would not want to put this situation to a quick end. The lawyer fees that they would have to pay to drag this out would exceed the amount that I'd be willing to settle for now.
They have a lot of personnel at risk. I'm guessing at least 14 total, including 4 supervisors. I don't think they want to risk that a few might corroborate my story, or that they all can get their stories to match close enough. If I hadn't got my record, I'd have never known all this.
Do you have copies of your records. If so that is good. I'd say security guards for just in case. That would be standard not the number just someone with that title. Or any males available. Is this a large or small hospital? Yes an Attending of the ER should be called. As to length of breaks is that what you were told the Attending was on break and a NP was in charge? Can you say exactly what caused the argument good word at this stage? And what actions to you personally were taken? Meds, restraints? I do know we had standing orders for meds to be given or if restrained same with doc called ASAP. But this was on a psych floor. We didn't have psychiatric doctors there. They were called. Frustrating sometimes as took a long time for their calls to be returned. I empathize with you. Does this hospital have a psychiatric unit? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 21:33:04
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa » Phillipa, posted by fired on December 26, 2010, at 21:27:21
You could babblemail more info. But check with an attorney. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on December 26, 2010, at 23:22:03
In reply to Re: Question for Phillipa » fired, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2010, at 21:33:04
> You could babblemail more info. But check with an attorney. Phillipa
I feel that Fired has shared a lot of information in this thread. You have already asked her once to BabbleMail you. I feel that is sufficient. You have provided her with some good insight, I think at this point she needs to check with an attorney.
Fired, that is not to say that we can't support you. You are going through a a very difficult situation and we are here for you. Personally, I am very interested to know the outcome.
Maxime
This is the end of the thread.
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