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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BayLeaf on September 8, 2009, at 19:52:32
posting here cuz it's pretty well buried on admin. bob didn't even put "blocked" in the subject line. odd. Perhaps he thinks we won't notice???
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2009, at 9:32:36
In reply to Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day., posted by BayLeaf on September 8, 2009, at 19:52:32
Posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 10:20:23
In reply to Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day., posted by BayLeaf on September 8, 2009, at 19:52:32
Bayleaf for what and on which board? Phillipa ps and just when she came back I've missed Alex.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2009, at 14:59:42
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » BayLeaf, posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 10:20:23
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090813/msgs/916091.html
But if I understand the thread, it was for these words in other posts:
> the stupid rules
> your little chosen circle of idealizers
> don't post to me
> Willful misunderstandingwhich was discussed here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090813/msgs/912968.html
Posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2009, at 15:00:21
In reply to Re: I'm sad, too (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2009, at 9:32:36
Posted by Phil on September 9, 2009, at 15:36:36
In reply to Re: I'm sad, too (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2009, at 9:32:36
Posted by BayLeaf on September 9, 2009, at 17:59:05
In reply to Re: I'm sad, too (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2009, at 9:32:36
Really? Easy fix. Change your rules to be less inhumane and stop making everyone sad.
Posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 20:11:28
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Phillipa, posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2009, at 14:59:42
10der you haven't lost your touch with finding threads thanks to you. I say if we are to repond let's say to apologize quickly administrator should be able to do same. I feel he might like things to escalate. I'm sorry I was enjoying Alex's posts. Always have. Phillipa
Posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2009, at 20:26:59
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » 10derHeart, posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 20:11:28
> I say if we are to repond let's say to apologize quickly administrator should be able to do same.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand this part.
>I feel he might like things to escalate.
If by "he" you mean Dr. Bob, I disagree. I'm not sure what your feelings about that are based on. In working with him for several years, I never saw any sign he likes it, or wants it - and by "it" I mean uncivil posting leading to blocks. Is that what you meant?
> I'm sorry I was enjoying Alex's posts. Always have.
Me, too.
Posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 21:27:09
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Phillipa, posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2009, at 20:26:59
Sorry was trying to get reading done on babble before ebay posting. I meant that so much time between the posting of Alex before the block. Hence just feel Bob should be around more. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 8:27:19
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » 10derHeart, posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 21:27:09
It looked to me like Dr. Bob was trying very hard to encourage Alex to make another choice, just as Alex likely was trying to encourage Dr. Bob to make another choice.
I don't think this time was because of negligence so much as hopefulness, based on his posts to her.
It's a sad situation when two people are doing what they feel they need to do, even though it may hurt both to do it.
It really seems to me that Dr. Bob is trying hard to *not* be the punitive voice from above that he is often seen as. People may disagree over the way he's going about it, but I think he deserves some credit for the intent.
Just my read on that exchange, in its entirety. I could be completely wrong in my reading.
I feel very sad for Alex, and I'll miss her on board presence a lot. She has a fresh way of looking at things, and a direct way of stating them. I appreciate that, and so many other things, about Alex. I'm grateful to have her as a friend, and I wish others had the opportunity as well.
I feel sad for Dr. Bob too. He's extending himself to Babblers as best he can, I think. I find it very frustrating and often feel hurt when my intentions are not greeted in the spirit I intend them. It's hard for me to think of Dr. Bob as feeling hurt like I feel hurt. But he is human, and I'm sure he does on occasion. Of course, our job here is to support each other, not Dr. Bob. But I still see him as a fellow human being, and feel the more general (rather than Babble specific) obligation of one soul to another.
((((((Alex))))))
(((( Dr. Bob ))))
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 12:28:13
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 8:27:19
Dinah I'm sad that you're sad and you've done a wonderful job always there with all your work, family and Son and pups. Just seems to me that the administrator of the site should be more attentive? Since he now is solely the owner so to speak of the site it's his responsibility isn't it to be around more oftern? I've always respected Dr. Bob. But I see him differently than a poster. I hope this makes civil sense? Alex has always been a breathe of fresh air to me and when first poster here my husband also wanted to post and she tried to help us be able to. We were told that even though we both had our own computers and different e-mails. We needed a different ISP to both post unless we picked his or my posting name and then signed own name. Since that was so confusing for others and certaintly not affordable he chose not to post on babble. Still doesn't make sense to me. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 18:06:04
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 12:28:13
Well, certainly I think we all wish Dr. Bob would spend more time on Babble, particularly now.
I suppose what concerns me about linking it to this situation is that considering it a function of Dr. Bob forgetting about Babble implies that Dr. Bob didn't care about what happened with Alex. And it really appeared to me that he did care. That he wanted Alex to stay, and that he wanted to give her time to change her mind about her part of the process.
I thought that, whatever the limitations of this medium, the exchange on that thread indicated caring, not lack of caring. And maybe I'd like Alex to feel that caring too.
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2009, at 20:23:35
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 18:06:04
Dinah sure hope your're right as you know him better than me for sure. Love Phillipa
Posted by BayLeaf on September 10, 2009, at 20:39:57
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 18:06:04
How did the topic change to Bob not being here enough? I thought the problem was overly long blocks and his refusal to change this policy despite so much evidence that it's been harmful to invidividuals, and many have left because of it. It is detrimental to Babble.
Is it sheer stubbornness? I can't think of any reason to keep this blocking calculation other than that. I've seen no rational explanation from Bob. Has anyone?? Is he just proud of his math?? I'm baffled.
b
Posted by seldomseen on September 13, 2009, at 12:34:16
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day., posted by BayLeaf on September 10, 2009, at 20:39:57
Blocks used to escalate much quicker than they do now. Dr. Bob invented his new math in an attempt to mitigate escalation by factoring in the length of time since the previous block.
I suspect that this is as much a he is willing to budge, at least for now, on this topic.
To me it has become very clear that Dr. Bob wants this place to exist for those who are willing to maintain civil discourse.
On the internet, IMO, discourse can rapidly deteriorate largely because of the anonymity and impersonal nature of interaction here.
I have long been a proponent of shortening blocks, but I am beginning to waiver a bit on this.
Seldom.
Posted by BayLeaf on September 13, 2009, at 13:43:36
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » BayLeaf, posted by seldomseen on September 13, 2009, at 12:34:16
I will never waiver on banishing people who live with mental illness & come here for support.
The silence following Alex's banishment is sadder still. Does anyone recall what she's been through recently?
What does "civility" cost us? Bob banishes people for months. Is that person going to be ok? What if he/she isn't? Is it really worth it for an f'ing apology?
Nope, not waivering.
b
Posted by Nadezda on September 16, 2009, at 0:09:33
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » seldomseen, posted by BayLeaf on September 13, 2009, at 13:43:36
It's worth leaving room for not necessarily knowing the right answer oneself, and for giving the benefit of the doubt to the idea that there may be reasons one doesn't understand for a policy, even if you yourself are sure it's wrong.
One thing, though, is: people leave a site for many reasons. I"m not convinced that people in general leave Babble because of the long blocks. I tend to think that the people who get long blocks do so with foreknowledge that that's going to happen. I agree that without civility rules, consideration for others and care about what one says give way quickly-- The results are more hurtful to individuals and communities than the rules here.
I know that people have been hurt. But I believe Bob when he says that he regrets that, and that a block doesn't mean one is a bad person. I guess I do hope that people who've been blocked have resources other than Babble for support-- including the chat room here and babblemail, as well as other real life support systems. If not, that is tragic--
I just don't think it's right to say that because of some disability we can't treat one another with care and concern. I don't feel that we're less able to do so than any other group. I respect the abilities of everyone here to act just as sensitively if not more so than people who haven't experienced what we have-- if indeed there are people who haven't. One thing that's worth considering is that we really aren't so different from other people-- certainly not in deserving that respect.
Nadezda
Posted by Sigismund on September 16, 2009, at 3:24:21
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » BayLeaf, posted by Nadezda on September 16, 2009, at 0:09:33
>and that a block doesn't mean one is a bad person
Hey y'know, I feel that's the new orthodoxy.
There must be bad people somewhere for badness to continue (but not here).
There must be lots of people (goodness, a generalisation, have I jumped to a conclusion?) who wonder if they are good or bad.The only other relevant coherent thought I have is that narcissism (never far from my heart) can only exist in societies which are individualistic.
Why am I talking about narcissism?
That's right...we need to learn to love ourselves.Well, there's another half thought I have...you are right, IMO, with this....
>I tend to think that the people who get long blocks do so with foreknowledge that that's going to happen.Any system of rules impartially enforced will be rough around the edges.
The formula is a delight though.
Posted by yxibow on September 29, 2009, at 13:40:24
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » seldomseen, posted by BayLeaf on September 13, 2009, at 13:43:36
> I will never waiver on banishing people who live with mental illness & come here for support.
>
> The silence following Alex's banishment is sadder still. Does anyone recall what she's been through recently?
>
> What does "civility" cost us? Bob banishes people for months. Is that person going to be ok? What if he/she isn't? Is it really worth it for an f'ing apology?
>
> Nope, not waivering.
>
> bNeither am I.... I've put this on the administration board, I'm not sure why it wound up here.
The "calculation formula" at
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
in my most recent post on Administration which was moved here I believe is Orwellian.
-- tidings
Posted by BayLeaf on September 30, 2009, at 18:38:29
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » BayLeaf, posted by yxibow on September 29, 2009, at 13:40:24
Tidings right back atcha.
Tonight I'm thinking about each individual soul we lost to blocks, civility, mandated apologies,...etc. Rules more important than lost souls? It makes me cry.
The rules have killed babble, and who knows what damage they have done to the former members of the community? We ALL see it, and yet he won't budge. I wonder why that is? Got any theories?
bay
Posted by Sigismund on October 2, 2009, at 17:22:13
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » BayLeaf, posted by yxibow on September 29, 2009, at 13:40:24
Dr Bob evidently put a lot of thought into the formula.
Unfortunately I have a bad back and the usual cognitive issues and can't do it justice.
But the impersonality and abstraction of it strikes me.
Anyone got anything to say about the formula?
Posted by 10derHeart on October 2, 2009, at 17:31:38
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day., posted by Sigismund on October 2, 2009, at 17:22:13
It shortened blocks, which used to be just doubled, and doubled again, and again.....
It allows for aggravating and mitigating factors, which posters back a couple years ago said they wanted as well.
I think that was a large part of the intent.
I do see pros and cons to it feeling impersonal to use a math formula. Some posters often insist[ed] that Dr. Bob and deputies were/are biased toward posters, or situations, or something (sorry - I can't articulate that very well) - the formula should have helped with that perception. But maybe not? Surely not if the opinion is that no blocking should happen - period.
Some posters often insist[ed] it is cold, silly, ridiculous, too rigid and so forth.
Clearly, there are strong feelings both ways.
Posted by muffled on October 12, 2009, at 10:40:12
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day. » Sigismund, posted by 10derHeart on October 2, 2009, at 17:31:38
I got exited by the formula initially cuz I thot it would be more shorter blocks. But as it turns out, the blocks are still far too long.
Bob refuses to put a cap on blocks.
This is a mental health site, people are going to have 'moments'. But as often as not, people can get thru those moments w/o a block, IF given the opportunity....
The long blocks are just completely unhelpful IMHO. They are not educational and do more harm than good. They are harsh to the person blocked, but also it is hard on their friends as well.
Then people are jumping up trying to defend their friends and stuff.
Then we try and reason with Bob. Bob, if he happens to be around, just strings us along and replies w/odd answers and strange counter questions.
Nothing changes, not really.
Babble helped me grow in good ways, but also was very hurtful at times. I bear the scars.
I love the people here, but I just cannot deal w/Bob. He is the owner/administrator of the site. He has all the power. Its HIS site. So I must walk away.
Thats how it was for me.
FWIW, as far as Alex, she is a very smart cookie, and I think she knew what she was doing, and that she would be blocked. She was making a point and I respect her for that.
She stuck to her truths.
Take care all.
M
Posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2009, at 19:12:28
In reply to Re: Alex got 37 weeks. Sad day., posted by muffled on October 12, 2009, at 10:40:12
Miss you dear Muffled. And Agree Alex is a smart cookie. Phillipa
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