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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2008, at 17:05:30
Wow we made it fill up our car and the pumps are running out of gas and the prices are up to about $4.00 a gallon. Stupid us should have filled up yesterday. People panicing in Nc with the oil refineries in the storm's way. Anyone else. One lady said her husband saw prices rise from 4 something to almost $8.00/gal. Today. Love Phillipa
Posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 17:34:53
In reply to Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2008, at 17:05:30
> Wow we made it fill up our car and the pumps are running out of gas and the prices are up to about $4.00 a gallon. Stupid us should have filled up yesterday. People panicing in Nc with the oil refineries in the storm's way. Anyone else. One lady said her husband saw prices rise from 4 something to almost $8.00/gal. Today. Love Phillipa
Woweee!!! Goodness, $8 would make gas completely unaffordable. Wow!
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 12, 2008, at 18:22:59
In reply to Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2008, at 17:05:30
I saw super duper long lines at all the stations we passed this morning even as the prices were being raised. Our tanks were already filled - but I think this will have a lasting and bad effect.
Posted by caraher on September 12, 2008, at 21:59:42
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 17:34:53
Any folks from outside the US care to translate their gas prices for us? $8/gallon is not uncommon outside the US, as I understand it (that would be about $2/liter)
Posted by manic666 on September 13, 2008, at 5:29:07
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone, posted by caraher on September 12, 2008, at 21:59:42
i think we run on better grade fuel than u.s 95 oc or 98 octane it can cost £6 a gallon an diese£ 7 it costs more than yours anyway
Posted by caraher on September 13, 2008, at 11:07:52
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone, posted by manic666 on September 13, 2008, at 5:29:07
So that would be almost $11/gallon at current exchange rates
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 13, 2008, at 22:31:37
In reply to Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2008, at 17:05:30
Ya, the even sadder part is it is being manufactured (the gas 'crises') by a few of the very rich of the richest people on the planet; The tiny 5 percent who own about 40 percent of all of the worlds wealth. They want to eliminate the middle class, have a few very, very rich people, and the majority rest just poor swim or sink lower class folks. People of the USA...you have the chance to vote for change and a new way of doing things.(I am not saying any names so this is still civil!) I hope and pray you vote for that right person.
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2008, at 0:37:28
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 13, 2008, at 22:31:37
OH OH This is getting political and I don't go there. But the election Is there anyone qualified for the job that doesn't talk out their you know what? The Gulf Hurricaine Ike is the reason right now for this panic and fill up your tank so now they sit empty. Phillipa and the gas stations here have plastic bags on the pumps meaning out of gas.
Posted by seldomseen on September 14, 2008, at 8:38:00
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 13, 2008, at 22:31:37
I just don't see how any political candiate can stop a hurricane - which is what we are talking about here.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 8:43:17
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2008, at 0:37:28
IMHO, if people hadn't panicked and rushed the gas lines to top off, the stations wouldn't have run out of gas. Running out of gas at the retail level one day after the storm doesn't reflect anything but consumer panic. How would shortages get that far down the pipeline that fast?
We're not out of gas locally, no one has raced to the pumps, and as far as I know prices haven't gone up any more than they've bobbled up and down recently. Consumers are only filling their tanks early if they're worried they need to evacuate.
If oil weren't so darn speculative, in terms of oil futures and all, things would go much smoother. Let's wait and assess the damage. My understanding is that the storm came far enough south to miss most of the rigs, and the damage to the refineries hasn't yet been assessed fully.
If the refineries are seriously damaged, the feds will release some of the strategic reserve. That's what it's there for. Emergencies.
Consumers may be panicking, and speculators may be panicking, but that can't really be blamed on the rich. OPEC just cut production a smidge (to stabilize prices), also, and they can uncut if necessary.
I *really* wish they would put regulations on commodity futures. It makes the price of oil far more unstable than it needs to be. I was hoping the recent decline in oil prices would provide a salutary lesson into the riskiness of that venture.
Posted by Hygieia's Bowl on September 14, 2008, at 10:31:43
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by seldomseen on September 14, 2008, at 8:38:00
> I just don't see how any political candiate can stop a hurricane - which is what we are talking about here.
>
>Amen !!
Posted by seldomseen on September 14, 2008, at 11:07:00
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 8:43:17
I completely agree - it's the speculation and the panic that is causing this button to be pushed.
This situation, in terms of wholesale gas prices, is very similar to that which occurred post-Katrina.
I will freely admit that, having learned my lesson from Katrina, I filled my car up thursday night, when gas was only 3.60 a gallon in anticipation of the rise in price post-Ike.
The very next morning, the same station had raised its price to 4.12 a gallon.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 13:59:55
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on September 14, 2008, at 11:07:00
Well, I must confess that one reason no one's charging the gas lines here is that most of us filled up already in anticipation of having to evacuate for Ike. :) Still, we are all better off because of it.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hy_DOY3oN6HadtNmPVSbkLtxGlzw
I did a google search to verify what I'd heard on the local news about the effect on refineries and rigs. It looks as if what I heard was more or less correct.
It does sort of make me wish someone could play the Jimmy Stewart role during the run on the banks in "It's a Wonderful Life".
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 14:01:40
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 13:59:55
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2008, at 19:52:18
In reply to Corrected link:, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2008, at 14:01:40
Yup and we're inland ridiculous we watched to prices rise all day and then no more gas. Phillipa think we paid 4.19.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 15, 2008, at 20:44:06
In reply to Re: Wow Running Out Of Gas Here And Prices Anyone else » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by seldomseen on September 14, 2008, at 8:38:00
Well, let's do a little bit of math. Politicians control policy regarding Global Warming. Here is a NASA report on what Global Warming will continue to do. Lo prende?(Oh ya, and this is NASA kids....you've heard of 'em, eh? Yes, it's Science...stuff that is pretty close to *the* truth.)
Global Warming Will Bring Violent Storms And Tornadoes, NASA Predicts
ScienceDaily (Aug. 31, 2007) NASA scientists have developed a new climate model that indicates that the most violent severe storms and tornadoes may become more common as Earth's climate warms.
Previous climate model studies have shown that heavy rainstorms will be more common in a warmer climate, but few global models have attempted to simulate the strength of updrafts in these storms. The model developed at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies by researchers Tony Del Genio, Mao-Sung Yao, and Jeff Jonas is the first to successfully simulate the observed difference in strength between land and ocean storms and is the first to estimate how the strength will change in a warming climate, including "severe thunderstorms" that also occur with significant wind shear and produce damaging winds at the ground.This information can be derived from the temperatures and humidities predicted by a climate computer model, according to the new study published on August 17 in the American Geophysical Union's Geophysical Research Letters. It predicts that in a warmer climate, stronger and more severe storms can be expected, but with fewer storms overall.
Global computer models represent weather and climate over regions several hundred miles wide. The models do not directly simulate thunderstorms and lightning. Instead, they evaluate when conditions are conducive to the outbreak of storms of varying strengths. This model first was tested against current climate conditions. It was found to represent major known global storm features including the prevalence of lightning over tropical continents such as Africa and, to a lesser extent, the Amazon Basin, and the near absence of lightning in oceanic storms.
The model then was applied to a hypothetical future climate with double the current carbon dioxide level and a surface that is an average of 5 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the current climate. The study found that continents warm more than oceans and that the altitude at which lightning forms rises to a level where the storms are usually more vigorous.
These effects combine to cause more of the continental storms that form in the warmer climate to resemble the strongest storms we currently experience.
Lightning produced by strong storms often ignites wildfires in dry areas. Researchers have predicted that some regions would have less humid air in a warmer climate and be more prone to wildfires as a result. However, drier conditions produce fewer storms. "These findings may seem to imply that fewer storms in the future will be good news for disastrous western U.S. wildfires," said Tony Del Genio, lead author of the study and a scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, New York. "But drier conditions near the ground combined with higher lightning flash rates per storm may end up intensifying wildfire damage instead."
The central and eastern areas of the United States are especially prone to severe storms and thunderstorms that arise when strong updrafts combine with horizontal winds that become stronger at higher altitudes. This combination produces damaging horizontal and vertical winds and is a major source of weather-related casualties. In the warmer climate simulation there is a small class of the most extreme storms with both strong updrafts and strong horizontal winds at higher levels that occur more often, and thus the model suggests that the most violent severe storms and tornadoes may become more common with warming.
The prediction of stronger continental storms and more lightning in a warmer climate is a natural consequence of the tendency of land surfaces to warm more than oceans and for the freezing level to rise with warming to an altitude where lightning-producing updrafts are stronger. These features of global warming are common to all models, but this is the first climate model to explore the ramifications of the warming for thunderstorms.
Jay
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