![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by verne on April 8, 2006, at 6:25:57
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by psychopharmacon on April 8, 2006, at 3:16:27
I'm with you, God is Love and Spirit, not knowable in earthly terms. There's an unseen supernatural world that is beyond our comprehension.
I experienced God at a full-gospel jacket, Spirit-filled church - the sort with laying on of hands, speaking in tongues, healing, people being "slain in the Spirit" and your basic holy rolling.
Although "God" touched me, I was never comfortable talking about God. In time, I came to reject the idea of God I had in my head, realizing it was a worldly fiction I had created. I knew God was real but any idea or image I had in my head wasn't.
It seemed like everyone had their own version, image, or idea of God. For me it got simpler and simpler when I quit trying to imagine God. Creeds and religions change but Love, and that growing Spirit of Peace, is everlasting.
All I know is that after my spiritual rebirth, Love, Hope, and Peace have increased in my life and nothing has been the same since. I'm still a mess but you should have seen me ten years ago.
vribble
Posted by Sobriquet Style on April 8, 2006, at 6:50:13
In reply to Re: God and psychiatric illness..., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 17:06:00
God's a friend of mine, hope i'm a friend to him.
Not sure about that devil, think s/he crossed my path afew times. Wasn't too impressed with the company.
~
Posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 8:59:42
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by special_k on April 7, 2006, at 22:19:04
> what kind of info could settle the issue?
If I knew that, I would probably know the answer. But basically anything that would prove it one way or another. As of now, there is no proof either way.
Maybe God appearing and saying "Hi, I'm God."
-T
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 14:52:59
In reply to Re: God and psychiatric illness..., posted by bassman on April 7, 2006, at 17:06:00
Here's the fun part: if I tell someone about the God I met, they'd probably decide I didn't believe in God because "He" was nothing like what they considered God.
that really made me chuckle.
people are so funny aren't they?
You mean you don't believe in a god who will condemn you to eternal torture though you led the best life you could
Why? Because you called "him" by the wrong name that's why!
What happens I wonder, if you can't hear properly and your pronounciation is a bit off?I guess maybe just half an eternity of torture.
Posted by pseudoname on April 8, 2006, at 15:23:29
In reply to early random thoughts, posted by Declan on April 7, 2006, at 15:36:16
I guess I didn't answer why I don't believe in God.
I had thorough Christian exposure growing up:
• Protestant church, Sunday school & choir every week
• reactionary Protestant day school to 8th grade
• Catholic high school
• taken to speaking-in-tongues services sometimes
• people in family who were Seventh-Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, etc
• lots of dinnertime talk about Calvinism, evolution, etcBy my mid-teens, I felt a lot of pressure from all these conflicting Christian dogmas. I felt that I saw too many internal contradictions and hand-waving, and it was getting to be too much for me, since I could find no logical reason to favor one Christian sect over another and each was presented to me with absolute certainty by its adherents.
Plus, prayer never did anything for my emotional problems.
The tipping point was at about 16 when I considered the unequivocally anti-gay passages in the Bible. I was gay and I *liked* that identity. (It was “different”, I guess.) I decided that a real God would have to know that being gay was okay. I remember exactly where I was sitting at the moment I thought, “If He doesn't want me, I don't want Him.”
My atheism has developed since then. :-) But I still like religious issues & discussions, and I still play hymns on my piano.
Posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
In reply to why not, posted by pseudoname on April 8, 2006, at 15:23:29
> I guess I didn't answer why I don't believe in God.
>
> I had thorough Christian exposure growing up:
> • Protestant church, Sunday school & choir every week
> • reactionary Protestant day school to 8th grade
> • Catholic high school
> • taken to speaking-in-tongues services sometimes
> • people in family who were Seventh-Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, etc
> • lots of dinnertime talk about Calvinism, evolution, etc
>
> By my mid-teens, I felt a lot of pressure from all these conflicting Christian dogmas. I felt that I saw too many internal contradictions and hand-waving, and it was getting to be too much for me, since I could find no logical reason to favor one Christian sect over another and each was presented to me with absolute certainty by its adherents.
>
> Plus, prayer never did anything for my emotional problems.
>
> The tipping point was at about 16 when I considered the unequivocally anti-gay passages in the Bible. I was gay and I *liked* that identity. (It was “different”, I guess.) I decided that a real God would have to know that being gay was okay. I remember exactly where I was sitting at the moment I thought, “If He doesn't want me, I don't want Him.”
>
> My atheism has developed since then. :-) But I still like religious issues & discussions, and I still play hymns on my piano.
I believe He does want you. I understand some of your confusion/frustration, etc. I was raised Catholic and felt forced to attend Church as an adolescent and teenager. As I got older I really started to question Catholism...praying to Mary, having to confess sins to a Priest, purgatory..just didn't buy it. Anyway, long story short I left the Catholic Church and because I still believed in God I started reading the Bible..which most Catholics didn't do. I accepted Christ at age 24 and I consider it to this day (I'm 47 now) the best thing I have ever done. I'm a basic Bible believing Christian. I'm definately not a Charasmatic holy roller-just not for me. As far as you being Gay, I hate it when "Christians" say he/she's gay so they must be lost. Christians aren't supposed to judge...I know God loves Gay people just as much as staight people. Gay people in my opinion tend to be some of the most intellegent, thoughtful, caring people on the planet. Thanks for your post pseudoname-take care.Tyler
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2006, at 17:41:55
In reply to Re: why not » pseudoname, posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
Does anyone remember the Wipple theory of how the Universe was created I learned in the eighth grade and at the time it made perfect sense. But for the life of me I don't remember it. Love Phillipa ps once I posted on Faith about how Jesus was in my bedroom two nights when there was a crisis with one of my kids and he spoke to me and said be strong. I was almost trembling when I wrote that post but it was snatched from me by a blocked poster and if you've been here for about six months to a year you all know who I'm taking about. I felt so brave to write that post but it was taken away from me when this person kept asking for clarifications. So of course the thread died. Love Phillipa
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 17:53:02
In reply to Re: why not » pseudoname, posted by TylerJ on April 8, 2006, at 17:18:30
Christians aren't supposed to judge...I know God loves Gay people just as much as staight people. Gay people in my opinion tend to be some of the most intellegent, thoughtful, caring people on the planet. Thanks for your post pseudoname-take care.
>
There are some Christian churches that are questioning the passages in the bible that seem to be anti-gay. I'm so very thankful for thatI'm not gay
But I have to hug you for what you've said. It's beyond my control.. : )
I was bracing myself as you approached the subject(((TYLER J)))
Thank you
for making your Christianity about love, and not about judgement.
It's like a fresh breeze just blew through my soul
Posted by deirdrehbrt on April 8, 2006, at 18:55:37
In reply to Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 19:00:57
Yes, but probably not in the sense that most people here do.
I believe that Deity revealed itself to many cultures in many ways. I think that some cultures have placed a box around their own definition and called it the only right way. I reject that.
I'm a Pagan, and to me, Deity can represent him / her / itself in many different ways, depending on the needs of the moment. If I need help with crafts or creativity, or working with metal, I call on Brigid. If I need help with water issues, I call on Coventina. Etc.
So I relate to deity in a manner that will fit my present situation. I suppose that it's not much different than Jews calling on Elohim, or El Shaddai, or whatever representation they could relate to at the time.
I specifically left the Christian faith because of their unbending stance on GLBT issues. I had been told by priests that I was going to hell, and I believe they are wrong.
I also had a strange experience in 1982, which led me to believe in Paganism / Wicca as a sensible alternative. That's where I am today.
Short answer, God, no.... Gods and Goddesses, yes.
--Dee
Posted by 10derHeart on April 8, 2006, at 20:43:35
In reply to Re: why not » TylerJ, posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 17:53:02
Not to for one second steal any of Tyler's thunder, but just to let you know gabbi, and anyone else reading, I totally, completely agree with what he posted. And I am *not* the only one, I absolutely assure you.
We aren't vocal enough perhaps. We aren't comfortable or articulate enough, perhaps, to make this known. But we are here, and I am coming from a middle-of-the-road to conservative, Protestant, Christian perspective. No friend of mine that I'm aware of, in my circle of church friends feels they are justified, or required to, pass judgement on another's behavior in that way.
IMO, it is distinctly unChristian (and lost) to *label* gay people as lost! (Did that make sense?) For me, the way I understand Jesus' words and the overriding message of the Bible in total, is that God loves each and every one of his children exactly the same, wants us all, cares for us all, weeps for us all, wants us *all* to prosper.
I thank everyone for these posts. It's important stuff, and not so easy to think about or talk about.
Posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 21:01:13
In reply to Re: Do you believe in God-why or why not?, posted by deirdrehbrt on April 8, 2006, at 18:55:37
One time when I told this guy I was agnostic he said, "You mean you don't believe in morals?!?" That really floored me. I was like, how do I even respond to such a statement?
I feel I have a very strict moral code and feel I'm quite spiritual. I try my best not to hurt or inflict anything negative on another person. I very rarely lie because I feel it will usually come back to me in some unpleasent way. But of course sometimes I do just like everyone else. I feel the same about taking something that's not mine. I also try to give people the benefit of the doubt and second chances, usually multiple second chances. Some people mistakingly believe that because I try to be forgiving and seek out the good in people that I won't stand up for myself. But just like everyone else I have my limits. I just try to handle things with as little negativity as possible, while trying to keep in mind that I deserve to be treated well too. Its not an easy balance.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 21:27:57
In reply to Re: why not » gabbi~1, posted by 10derHeart on April 8, 2006, at 20:43:35
There are many Christians who don't feel the need to judge and force their beliefs on everybody. They will quietly show by example what they believe, which although less obvious, is way more effective. But in any situation, the loud demanding people always get the most attention. It doesn't necessarily mean they are the majority.
-T
Posted by alohashirt on April 8, 2006, at 22:59:00
In reply to Re: why not » gabbi~1, posted by 10derHeart on April 8, 2006, at 20:43:35
Yes I believe in God, I am Christian - but I can get pretty steamed up pretty fast by the widespread use of Christianity to spread messages of hate, or smugness especially here in the US. In addition, the Catholic Churches consistently apalling behavior with the issue of sexual abuse by clergy is beyond the pale.
Bottom line - I think thatg much of Christianity the institution has been taken over by neoconservatives.
Posted by lynn971 on April 8, 2006, at 23:19:41
In reply to Yes (but more than a little shamefaced ..., posted by alohashirt on April 8, 2006, at 22:59:00
Not only do I believe in God, but I depend on Him daily. Jesus has made Himself so real to me. If one has a personal relationship with Him, there would be no doubt that He exists and is seated at the right Hand of God.
He has done so much for me. There are many miracles in my life because of the answered prayers. Answers that were so wonderful and direct that I know that I know that I know He is real.
Peace,
Lynn
Posted by verne on April 9, 2006, at 1:01:18
In reply to Re: Yes (but more than a little shamefaced ..., posted by lynn971 on April 8, 2006, at 23:19:41
I really dread this time of year. Easter bonnets, easter baskets, easter clothes, the perfumed crowds at church, the colors, the smell of cracked eggs, and that green "straw".
Easter Bunny give me strength to dye another egg.
Vvgee Egmont Vribblesworth
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 9:24:18
In reply to Re: why not » TylerJ, posted by gabbi~1 on April 8, 2006, at 17:53:02
> Christians aren't supposed to judge...I know God loves Gay people just as much as staight people. Gay people in my opinion tend to be some of the most intellegent, thoughtful, caring people on the planet. Thanks for your post pseudoname-take care.
> >
> There are some Christian churches that are questioning the passages in the bible that seem to be anti-gay. I'm so very thankful for that
>
> I'm not gay
> But I have to hug you for what you've said. It's beyond my control.. : )
> I was bracing myself as you approached the subject
>
> (((TYLER J)))
>
> Thank you
> for making your Christianity about love, and not about judgement.
> It's like a fresh breeze just blew through my soul
>
>
>Thank you for the hug and nice comment, you made me smile. :)
Tyler
Posted by gabbi~1 on April 9, 2006, at 10:27:07
In reply to Re: why not » 10derHeart, posted by TexasChic on April 8, 2006, at 21:27:57
I didn't mean to insinuate that all Christians are judgemental or homophobic. I realize there are many people who believe in Christ who aren't.
In my experience though, people who initiate conversation about God and Christ and religion, tend to adhere to a more structured idea of what Christianity is.
That's why I found what Tyler said such a refreshing change
Posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 12:10:45
In reply to Re: why not, posted by gabbi~1 on April 9, 2006, at 10:27:07
I like how Pcychopharmacon expressed it, "why not"!! i'm sure most have heard of "Pascals Wager", if you live a decent life, and beleive in God, and God does exist, you've gained everything, if he doesn't, you still have lived a good life. [i belive that is the premise].
I choose now to beleive in God, after many years of flirting with atheism, and shunning religous practice, I thought the constrictions of an early catholic upbringing were the cause of all my woes, most certainly my ocd.but i just personally now need a beleif in a "higher power, for me random chaos and a Godless universe are much more difficult to comprehend, than a creator who brought forth beauty such as my niece, Emily, who i love unconditionally with my whole heart. even if i beleive just for her sake, i feel good. i know that sounds naive, but it is from my heart.
I think alot of mistrust, and preduice has come from organized religion, no doubt, but i choose to beleive, and i think it helps put my ego in proper perspective, and it gives me much needed stability...john [also i always loved the story of Jesus, even at my most non-religous times]
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 13:59:16
In reply to Re: why not, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 12:10:45
>
> I like how Pcychopharmacon expressed it, "why not"!! i'm sure most have heard of "Pascals Wager", if you live a decent life, and beleive in God, and God does exist, you've gained everything, if he doesn't, you still have lived a good life. [i belive that is the premise].
> I choose now to beleive in God, after many years of flirting with atheism, and shunning religous practice, I thought the constrictions of an early catholic upbringing were the cause of all my woes, most certainly my ocd.
>
> but i just personally now need a beleif in a "higher power, for me random chaos and a Godless universe are much more difficult to comprehend, than a creator who brought forth beauty such as my niece, Emily, who i love unconditionally with my whole heart. even if i beleive just for her sake, i feel good. i know that sounds naive, but it is from my heart.
>
> I think alot of mistrust, and preduice has come from organized religion, no doubt, but i choose to beleive, and i think it helps put my ego in proper perspective, and it gives me much needed stability...john [also i always loved the story of Jesus, even at my most non-religous times]
>John,
I also think my upbringing in the Catholic Church and stern mother is a huge reason i developed ocd, everything was a sin-even if you just thought about it. And my mom would always say, "God's going to punish you for that young man." So untrue...I developed a mental picture of a mean god, much like my mother, who was watching my every move and thought just ready to punish me. Now, I know that's not true of course, I believe God is Love, always accepting and loving us with the ultimate unconditional love!Tyler
Posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 14:20:16
In reply to Re: why not » john berk, posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 13:59:16
your so right Tyler,
I belong to ocdsuppportgroups.com, and i was trying to give some guidance the other day to someone who actually feared going to confession,
because they may have the wrong thought, or think something blasphemous during confession.I now beleive God is loving, and i have made peace with my fears of the all knowing, punishing God of my youth. I attended evening mass yesterday, and look forward to Easter mass.
i have heard ocd is more prevelant in us catholics, do you agree? i think i really need God in my life at this point, i feel too alienated without faith. thank you for your post ..john
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 14:43:56
In reply to Re: why not » TylerJ, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 14:20:16
> your so right Tyler,
> I belong to ocdsuppportgroups.com, and i was trying to give some guidance the other day to someone who actually feared going to confession,
> because they may have the wrong thought, or think something blasphemous during confession.
>
> I now beleive God is loving, and i have made peace with my fears of the all knowing, punishing God of my youth. I attended evening mass yesterday, and look forward to Easter mass.
> i have heard ocd is more prevelant in us catholics, do you agree? i think i really need God in my life at this point, i feel too alienated without faith. thank you for your post ..johnYes, I believe it's more prevelant in Catholics. I still wrestle with "blasphemous thoughts" but instead of letting them get the best of me, I remind myself that God knows my Heart, He knows I really Love Him, and he doesn't care about these thoughts that I can't control. I don't go to the Catholic Church anymore, haven't for 23 yrs. My wife and I go to a little Babtist Church that we love.
I don't only blame the C.Church, I aso blame my Mom. Man, some of the crap she use to tell me...no wonder I ended up with this horrible illness. I could write a book. Was your Mom or Dad always telling you how bad you were? Thank God I had a wonderful Dad, or I probably would have taken my life before I reached 20.Tyler
Posted by TexasChic on April 9, 2006, at 15:53:04
In reply to Re: why not, posted by gabbi~1 on April 9, 2006, at 10:27:07
> I didn't mean to insinuate that all Christians are judgemental or homophobic.
I didn't mean to insinuate anyone was insinuating. I was agreeing with the fact that not all people of any group are the same. Sorry if it came out wrong.
-T
Posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 17:07:49
In reply to Re: why not » john berk, posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 14:43:56
Hi Tyler,
in my case it was my dad, he was very religious and took every statement in the Bible literally, and even as an adult i still can feel his influence on my thinking and behavior.I had one therapist tell me she actually thought my father was directly responsible for my ocd, she thought i also showed signs of PTSD, just living in my home enviornment, although i was never physically touched or abused.
my dad was constantly telling me what to think and feel.
luckily i have moved beyond that, but that is why i think ocd is just as much psychological as it is disordered brain chemistry, although the latter gets more emphasis these days...john
Posted by spriggy on April 13, 2006, at 23:01:00
In reply to Re: Objection to Faith re-direct, posted by special_k on April 7, 2006, at 23:23:19
And without the hope of Christ Jesus in my life, I would've definitely not survived.
He is my sustainer and comforter.
I am thankful that my life is in His hands', the good days and the bad.
Posted by Reggie BoStar on April 13, 2006, at 23:02:09
In reply to God and psychiatric illness..., posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 12:07:38
From the Tao Te Ching, chapter 6:
The Tao is like a well
used but inexhaustible
It is like the eternal void
and there are infinite possibilitesIt is hidden but always present
Who or what gave birth to it is unknown
It is older than God.****************************
(My notes) I believe that the universe is more profound than our current concepts of "God" and existence; I also believe that the being we call "God" may simply be another product of the universe - invented by us - and is superceded by a more profound reality - one not invented by us.Psychiatric illnesses and the the science which addresses them are human issues, nothing more or less. If there is some connection to a being called "God", it is because we created both the being and the connection - and benefit by it just as we would any other placebo which gives us comfort.
But the eternal void, the tao which cannot be named, supercedes all - us, our "God", all things in the universe.
This is the end of the thread.
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