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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 21:35:01
And not an atypical one these days.
I asked "how are you?".
And heard something like.
"Not bad. We only took on about a foot of water, but I'm really lucky because I've got a second floor we can live in. I'm doing pretty well."
Ya gotta admire people. There's a fair amount of pioneer spirit still down here.
Posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:02:21
In reply to A short conversation from today, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 21:35:01
It's great that people can be so optimistic after such adversity. :-)
A positive spin on things can go a long way in helping one cope with difficulties.
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2005, at 22:19:45
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:02:21
Dinah not to be negative but there must be a lot of health problems going round and bugs. fondly, Philipa
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:28:19
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2005, at 22:19:45
Well, there's the Katrina cough. Mold, sheetrock dust. But people are healthier than they seem. The hepatitis outbreaks and everything that they were expecting didn't come to pass.
On the other hand, I hear there are a fair number of accidents, probably to do with the high stress levels. And short term memory problems are becoming expected. And our old people are really paying the price of all this stress and change. My father in law died, my grandmother in law's in intensive care, and unfortunately that's not particularly unusual. You hear people talk about similar things with the elderly everywhere you go.
I think stress will be the biggest health problem in the area.
Oh, and bugs. Definitely. We've had gnats in our house since we moved back. They're just starting to die down. I think they've started spraying again so mosquitos aren't as bad as they might be. But flies are just about everywhere. As far as I can tell it's more annoying than a health threat though.
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:35:39
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:02:21
I'm afraid I'm not a pioneer at heart, and wish I felt free to whine. But you never know if the person you're whining to just lost their entire home and all their possessions. So I think I, at least, am rather defensively cheerful.
But I like to think that other people really mean it. It gives one hope.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 15, 2005, at 22:36:48
In reply to A short conversation from today, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 21:35:01
> Ya gotta admire people. There's a fair amount of pioneer spirit still down here.
:-)
Yeah.
People can be so amazing sometimes.
So very resilient. And optimism...
:-)Uh... Whats a gnat?
Posted by alexandra_k on November 15, 2005, at 22:38:20
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Deneb, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:35:39
> I'm afraid I'm not a pioneer at heart
But...
I reckon you have done / are doing really well.
I mean... If it would have been possible to imagine something like this... How well would you have thought you would have been able to cope??? But you just have. I mean... Things have been hard. But... You seem to me to be doing really very well...:-)
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:44:35
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on November 15, 2005, at 22:38:20
Gnats are minuscule annoying but not dangerous flying bugs that seem to live to fly into one's mouth. These might actually be small flies rather than gnats, but they're about the same size, and just as annoying.
Appearances are decieving, I think, if I appear to be doing ok. But I'm not suicidal and that's something. I was having a lot of ideation earlier, but after my father in law died I realized I really have to live another nine years, because aside from my husband and I my son has no one. That sort of took death off the table and has been surprisingly effective as an ideation deterrant.
But I'm not ok. I'm not sure I'll ever be ok again.
Posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:49:44
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:44:35
((((((((((((((Dinah))))))))))))))))))
You'll be OK again one of these days. Things have been tough for you, but things can get better. Have faith in yourself.
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2005, at 23:06:47
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:49:44
Dinah, PTSD. It does not leave. Just when you think it's gone something happens to trigger it. A support group would be very helpful now to help each other cope. Are things like doctors and therapists functioning again? Have a lot of them left the area? That may be a way to help yourself. Start one yourself. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 10derHeart on November 16, 2005, at 0:27:48
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:44:35
Let's see now, if memory serves....it seems I recall your son is around 10? So you're saying perhaps it might be conceivable to go ahead and die when he's around 19? Presumably because after what we call "the childhood years" are done, it'll be better timed, as he won't "really" need you as much...? Well, this may be radical, but I say that's at least debatable.
Let me give you my take. (And I'm NOT, repeat NOT upset, triggered or hurt by your post) My Mom died when I was 19 and that fact was/is very much NOT okay. In fact, two good and caring T's have separately come to believe that the trauma of that loss, lack of proper grieving over it, etc., has clearly led to nearly every problem I have 27 years later. I think my T. now expresses it as the "defining psychological event" or something like that, of my life.
Now, she didn't die by her own hand - it was breast cancer. But I still suffered a huge blow and I was, I believe now, irrevocably changed. The stuff about being an adult at some magical age (18?) and it being "easier" or "better" or something to lose a mother is...well, a crock in my world. I would absolutely love to know a me, the other me that might have been if I could have grown truly into adulthood WITH my Mom. I'll bet it would've really been something, 'cause everyone who knew her thought she would've improved with age and been an especially glorius grandma...but, she died 3 years before my daughter was born <sigh>
Clearly all people end up dealing with grief and loss differently, so I'm not implying anything specific about your son's future mental health, should the unthinkable happen to you. But, your post gave me pause, as I am also an only child, who still has my Dad to this day (but it's just never-been-close to the same as Mom) and I didn't really have anybody else either, much like your son. Those factors STILL mattered in a huge way at 19. I've wondered, if maybe in some ways, younger kids have it a bit better. I mean, at 19, it's assumed you'll deal with it. Little ones are assumed to be devastated, and often rallied around by loving family. Well, I was devastated, too, and I needed that rallying that never happened. Sorry, you're old enough - handle it. Yeah, right.
One thing is, I find it's been confusing to know how to have a right adult relationship with my adult daughter (although it's turned out well - somehow) because I had no model in my own life. How would I know how mothers and daughters act when they're both grown? Mine (death=abandonment; still angry) left me to figure out how to be a young adult, wife, mother, and eveything in between, by myself.
So dear Dinah, how about you just keep finding newer and stronger reasons to keep the ideation at bay, oh, let's say....FOREVER...'cause you are a wonderful, loving Mom now and your son needs that Dinah in his life as long as possible. Believe me, I know. (Gosh, so do you - I haven't forgotten your posts about the sadness of your Dad's death, and you were a just bit older than nineteen...)
Yup, I'm saying no matter how painful or tough, ya' gotta hang in there, for that boy. Kids don't always bounce back when these things happen whatever the age. It's just so hard - too hard.
Sorry for the tangent, but I felt compelled to speak up. I know you really aren't planning your demise anyway...but you struck a chord in me somewhere. I shall climb down off my motherless-adult-child soapbox now. Hope you take this the way it's intended. I think you know my heart well enough by now... (((Dinah+hubby+son)))
Posted by alexandra_k on November 16, 2005, at 1:46:02
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2005, at 22:44:35
> Gnats are minuscule annoying but not dangerous flying bugs that seem to live to fly into one's mouth. These might actually be small flies rather than gnats, but they're about the same size, and just as annoying.
Oh. I've never heard of Gnats before :-)
> Appearances are decieving, I think, if I appear to be doing ok.Well... Maybe 'ok' wasn't the right word...
> But I'm not suicidal and that's something.
:-)
Well... I think thats something very good indeed.>I was having a lot of ideation earlier, but after my father in law died I realized I really have to live another nine years, because aside from my husband and I my son has no one. That sort of took death off the table and has been surprisingly effective as an ideation deterrant.
I'm glad you feel like you have something to live for :-)
And I hope...
That other things will come along in the next nine years too...> But I'm not ok. I'm not sure I'll ever be ok again.
Yeah.
I'm sorry... I didn't mean to say that things were just fine or anything like that. I just mean... That you do have a lot of internal strength.Or something...
I'm sorry.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 9:49:37
In reply to Re: sticking around - poss. *trigger* (long) » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on November 16, 2005, at 0:27:48
I'm sorry, 10der. I didn't mean to bring up any bad memories. I don't really mean I think it's ok to die in nine years. It's more that I think of the fact that if anything happens to my husband and I, unless we can find a suitable guardian (a very big unless), my son would be given to my mother (aaaaaagggggghhhhh!!!!!) or my brother (aaaggghhhh. His fiance believes in corporal punishment) to raise. Both outcomes are so truly horrible that I literally say to my husband before we part every day "Don't forget. You can't die." I'm even developing hypochondria over it. Every blemish becomes a potential killer of myself and cause of handing my son over to my mother.
And that just can't be. I grew up with her when she wasn't as raging as she is now, but she was raging enough. Now she flies off the handle to perfectly innocent people who have done nothing whatsoever wrong. It's an incredible embarassment to me to watch. To turn over my son to her? Unthinkable. I grew up in a house so full of her hoarding and so filthy that German cockroaches infested each room. They were so bold that they'd promenade across the kitchen table during meals and it wasn't unusual to have them crawl up the underside of your plate and wave their tiny antennae as a howdy as you were eating. I tried to stem the tide when I was there, but I know after I left they developed a mouse problem that I'm not sure is fixed.
I've even tried to make sure visiting insurance adjusters, etc. have seen what's going on, hoping they'll turn her in to the authorities. But no luck thus far inside, tho she's had a few citations outside.
I just can't let my son go to that.
So that's what I meant.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 9:52:52
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2005, at 23:06:47
I know there are signs up all over for counseling, especially for the little ones. And FEMA has some crisis counselors set up. I'm not sure about support groups. I think I prefer my one on one therapy. My therapist got several inches himself, and his house was looted as well. He's not a pioneer either, and he's not afraid of whining at all. So I don't feel so bad feeling bad around him. If that makes sense. :)
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 9:53:53
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by Deneb on November 15, 2005, at 22:49:44
I'm sure that's true, however little I see it today. Thanks, Deneb.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 10:02:20
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on November 16, 2005, at 1:46:02
I don't know. I think there may come a point when you become starkly aware of the shaky foundation your stable life is built on. That nothing can be relied upon. And the way that makes you feel doesn't look like any way you've felt before.
Add in a good dollop of self hatred for not letting my inlaws stay with me.
And then add in reading daily in the newspaper how really little you mean to the government of these United States. Legislators suggesting that the city shouldn't be rebuilt, or should only be given limited protection, when you know the protection they gave you before didn't even live up to the standards it was designed to. That the situation you're living in wasn't caused by the hurricane at all, but by failure of governmental protections. And you feel like less than nothing. I really should stop reading the news entirely.
At any rate, you might have helped me get to the reasons behind my hygiene problems. Sigh.
Posted by 10derHeart on November 16, 2005, at 15:30:17
In reply to Re: sticking around - poss. *trigger* (long) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 9:49:37
I know. That's why I tried to say you didn't even trigger me or anything. Just that I get the only child stuff and the ages you just happened to mention made me think back a lot on my situation and my daughter's, an "only" too....
I totally understand what you posted about your mother and suitable guardians, etc. When mine was little, I at least, thank God, did have 2 friends I trusted enough, and whose parenting styles I agreed with, that I always knew they would be "the ones,"...sounds like you don't have that. It's scary, for sure.
My post over on psychology should go a long way to explaining why this particular tangent came so easily to me yesterday. Loss, and leaving and clinging onto connections and people you love FOREVER (if that were possible) seems to be the theme of the moment. Didn't mean to take it so far, but Babble does that to me sometimes...thanks for your patience.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 16, 2005, at 17:47:04
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 10:02:20
> I don't know. I think there may come a point when you become starkly aware of the shaky foundation your stable life is built on.
((((Dinah))))
Yeah.
It is hard.
I think... At base...
Everybodys life is like that.
Things are... Fragile indeed.
But... Most people aren't really aware of that in their daily lives...
It is hard to be aware...
Frightening.>That nothing can be relied upon. And the way that makes you feel doesn't look like any way you've felt before.
>
((((Dinah))))> Add in a good dollop of self hatred for not letting my inlaws stay with me.
((((Dinah))))
It is hard.I remember attending a social and moral philosophy lecture... The lecturer was talking about how her in laws needed to stay with her and her family. And she had to think about and weigh up... The benefit to the in laws... And the cost to her family. And some decisions are really very hard. And guilt is a horrible horrible thing. Sometimes... It is a really hard decision to make... I guess its about having faith that you made the best decision that you could after thinking on it. And... The fact that you do feel bad about it... Shows you to be a caring person.
> And then add in reading daily in the newspaper how really little you mean to the government of these United States. Legislators suggesting that the city shouldn't be rebuilt, or should only be given limited protection, when you know the protection they gave you before didn't even live up to the standards it was designed to. That the situation you're living in wasn't caused by the hurricane at all, but by failure of governmental protections. And you feel like less than nothing. I really should stop reading the news entirely.
(((Dinah)))
I'm starting...
To want to get involved in politics.
Yeah, thesis avoidance...
But also the point that...
What I'm doing isn't particularly worthwhile.
Its not going to make a difference.
Its not really about making a difference.
But politics...
Political theory...
I think...
I'd like to do some of that...The stuff you talked about on the psychology board before... About individualism versus inter-dependence. About how individualism and self-sufficiency is promoted as the ideal... But about how inter-dependence is actually what is good for us.
I think...
That applies to politics too...Just know that we care about you and your family
A great deal
And my heart goes out to the people of New Orleans...
> At any rate, you might have helped me get to the reasons behind my hygiene problems. Sigh.(((Dinah)))
Posted by AuntieMel on November 17, 2005, at 14:03:38
In reply to Re: sticking around - poss. *trigger* (long) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 9:49:37
I'll take him. I don't believe in spankings, I understand the problems of the smart kid. And I'm *bound* to be better than the alternatives.
We've got pretty good schools here, too. I got an indication today of why you've got him in private school. Our school district is looking for volunteer tutors, largely for Katrina victims. The article says they are about 2-3 years behind educationally from our schools. I'm thinking of volunteering as a math tutor.
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2005, at 8:27:27
In reply to Re: sticking around - poss. *trigger* (long) » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on November 17, 2005, at 14:03:38
You would be far preferable to my mother or brother! :)
You're right about the public schools down here. Some of them are quite dreadful. There's any number of reasons for that. The state is planning to take over the failing schools locally. It will be interesting to see if they can make any sort of difference.
It's been a big problem in attracting businesses, I can tell you. It's hard to convince companies that it's worthwhile to move here, when budgeting for private schools is a necessity for their employees unless they want to send their kids to failing public schools.
I think it's *possible* to get a good education in public schools here, but it isn't easy. You have to be able to be in the honors classes.
It really is unacceptable.
I think it's terrific the way the Houstonians are really rallying around and volunteering their time. I tried once to volunteer at a local school, but didn't really get the feeling that they wanted volunteers. It was probably for the best, because I am absolutely dreadful at trying to explain things to others. My son would far prefer going to my husband. (And to think I wanted to quit my job and go back to school to be a teacher!)
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2005, at 8:46:35
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today, posted by alexandra_k on November 16, 2005, at 17:47:04
Yeah. It may also be the source of the cockroach dreams. I was talking to one of my doctors, who used the imagery of being crushed like bugs when discussing the matter. She's leaving too, which makes three doctors who are leaving. Although I'm not sure it's definite yet with my psychiatrist. I'm supposed to check back in a month.
That's not a very encouraging sign for the wellbeing of the area, if doctors and others who financially can leave are leaving. But how can anyone stay once they discover the true condition of the levees?
Posted by alexandra_k on November 18, 2005, at 19:09:15
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 18, 2005, at 8:46:35
> Yeah. It may also be the source of the cockroach dreams. I was talking to one of my doctors, who used the imagery of being crushed like bugs when discussing the matter.
Yeah, that would make a lot of sense to me.
>She's leaving too, which makes three doctors who are leaving.
(((Dinah)))
I *HATE* it when people move one.
I guess about now... I'd be feeling pretty numb and kinda resigned to it... But yeah, thats gotta make your foundations feel a bit shakey...> That's not a very encouraging sign for the wellbeing of the area, if doctors and others who financially can leave are leaving. But how can anyone stay once they discover the true condition of the levees?
Yeah... And it must be really very hard to go back and face your loss. And be faced with some really very hard work to get your houses back in order. And the community services. Sewerage, rubbish, shops, churches, libraries, museums, etc etc. I can most certainly understand people wanting to leave. I think... I'd probably want to under the circumstances too.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by alexandra_k on November 18, 2005, at 19:18:51
In reply to Re: sticking around - poss. *trigger* (long) » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on November 18, 2005, at 8:27:27
Yeah... Schools are hard. And when the majority of the public is poor... The majority of the kids probably aren't getting much taught to them by their parents and probably aren't getting much support with respect to their education.
And when kids go to school hungry...
And are used to people using violence instead of communication...Its gotta be hard for the teachers too.
Most teachers... Don't want to work in schools with a low socio-economic base because of the problems motivating the kids and because so much time has to be spent on discipline (breaking up fights, disruptive classroom behaviour, drug using / dealing) and then truancy...And I think... I understand why the *best* teachers don't tend to want to teach there (you aren't a teacher so much as a community worker). And I can understand why you don't want your kid going there if at all possible. Bad role models (in terms of taking pride in ones educational accomplishments; in terms of appropriate behaviour towards other people). In schools like that... The sensitive kids get bullied and picked on. Yup.
I think in those kinds of schools...
Thats where they need programs. Giving kids (a nutritious) breakfast before school, lunch while at school. Trying to do that in a way that is not demeaning. Just kind of natural.
And... More teachers to fewer kids. So you have more 'good role modelling' per group. Otherwise it can be too hard to keep the class under control. And because... You have to try and figure out how to get the kids *wanting* to learn to read in the first place. And so on...
I'd imagine... It would take a fair amount of money to turn things around.
And of course... No matter what you do if the parents are telling them they are stupid and reading is stupid and like you can read anyway and books are stupid anyway and of course you are going to be in a gang when you are old enough just like your big brother or whatever...
well...
hard to see how there is hope sometimes...
Posted by wildcard on November 18, 2005, at 21:04:14
In reply to Re: A short conversation from today » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 18, 2005, at 8:46:35
So many things I feel in my heart but cannot find the words, if there are any at all. Just know that you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope that time will help ease the pain.
This is the end of the thread.
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