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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 48 to 72 of 115. Go back in thread:
Posted by holymama on October 14, 2005, at 19:07:59
In reply to Please help me see a future, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 18:45:17
Sweetie,
Go to a hospital. You need to get some help and get back on your feet.
I'll tell you something. You remind me of myself early in my twenties. This is when I didn't understand myself yet and my incomprehensible tortured mind. As I've gotten older I have come to understand myself better and get control of my mind -- WITH the help of medication and therapy. Lots of both. But it took me a few years to figure this stuff out.You are just at the beginning of this journey. There is a risk of suicide with your disorder and you need to get help SO THAT YOU CAN SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO HELP YOURSELF.
If you are smart, you will start getting help when or before you need it. Only over time will you learn how to manage this yourself. You WILL learn, but now is the time to get help from others so they can teach you how to do it. THIS WILL GET EASIER. I PROMISE.
I think you've said you've been in a hospital before -- (or did I make that up???) From my experience, a 'private' hospital was a far better experience than a plain old ER public hospital. (I'm sure people have had different experiences). Can you call your insurance and find out what hospitals they will cover for inpatient psychiatric hospitalizations?
I hate the idea that I'm pushing a hospital stay on you, but I think you need more help than you are getting.
take care of your precious self.
~Autumn~
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2005, at 19:12:59
In reply to Need to understand triggers and suicide, posted by Deneb on October 13, 2005, at 20:42:10
> What I don't understand it why you insist on threatening suicide every other week.
> …This is something a young child would say because she didn't get her way. I don't think you want to die, you're throwing a temper tantraum!
I can see that people are finding this frustrating but I have to say that ‘threatening suicide’ and ‘throwing a temper tantraum’ probably aren’t terribly helpful ways of looking at it…
(How would you feel if you expressed suicidal ideation and was told you were ‘threatening suicide’ or ‘throwing a temper tantraum’? Would that help you or hurt you? If you come to see your own behaviour in that way… Would you feel able to live with yourself?
> Im sorry if I sound insensitive but I feel like you have had so many explanations given to you. I give up, Im tired and I feel I already gave you an explanation as well.
(((Rainbow))) I’m sorry, I know this is a hard issue for you. It might help to think that sometimes when one is in a really bad space certain information can get forgotten. As a different example… Imagine that you are worried that someone doesn’t like you. They tell you (a couple times) that they do. But then you get depressed… And so… What they said before… Well… It kind of needs to be said again because it has been forgotten. I know that for me, my memory of events / things people have said / alternative ways of looking at the situation is very mood dependent. When my emotions get very intense… I can forget all kinds of stuff.> It was just a favor, just a friendly request for a trigger without making a big deal of it.
I know this is hard for you… Maybe you had best avoid posts from Deneb that have a trigger warning on them and / or mention suicide in the subject header?
> I recall one post where you thought it was funny listening to the way some people tried to kill themselves. thats all.
Yeah. And joking about death isn’t allowed here. Deneb was warned for that – and she hasn’t done it again. I think… Maybe when she mentiones the topic now people tend to think of that other thread? And it calls some of those issues back for people.> This behaviour will usually be the result of a deeply held belief - often to do with the way that they view the world. Their belief in this world view is so strong that any evidence to the contrary is discounted’ (quote)
Yuk yuk yuk… I don’t think it is a matter of logic. More a matter of having the ablility to retain ones faith… That one is okay, that other people do care, that one does have a future etc. It seems to me that it is when those things (which just are a matter of faith and are inferences beyond all available evidence) which constitute something of a world view. And it is that… That can radically alter when one feels under extreme emotional stress. Things start seeming black… Very black indeed.
> And the issue about talking about suicide and how it affects others is an issue of courtesy. We have rules here at Babble to help us extend courtesy to one another. When there isn't a rule, we try to be sensitive to others' feelings, even if they do not match ours. Sometimes that means we can't talk about certain subjects in the manner we would like to here.
???
Do you really think this is so? I don’t hold back… And I have had some people express that they have problems with some of my posts. They don’t like some of them. They set off certain feelings in some other posters etc. And the situation seems to me… To be a little like Lou. Posters want a certain poster to refrain from making certain kinds of posts. They start out expressing their feelings on the issue… And then (it seems to me) they don’t really hold back with respect to whatever it takes to get that poster to fall into line. But that certain poster whose posts are being called into question… Well… So long as their posts are in line with the civility guidelines then I guess they have themselves something of a dilemma… How much to shut up because that is what other people need from you? How much to continue writing because that is what you need for you? Decisions… And yes, there are consequences… And posters here can be quite harsh with their consequences… Mostly (it seems to me because they don’t understand why it is that the person needs to vent / express themselves). I continued doing what I needed to do… So did Lou… I wonder what Deneb would do. What would you do if you were Deneb?
>Is it really important to understand *why* people are triggered? Or is it only important to know that they are? There are many, many things in life that upset others. From small to large. Chewing and talking at the same time. Cursing. and so on. I don't need to understand *why* they upset people, only that they do. And I need to respect that.
Okay. But those examples… May be a little different to what is going on here. Most people don’t get so very attached to chewing and talking at the same time that they really feel they must continue despite how other people feel about it. But sometimes… Well… What if I needed to sing (because I got something from being able to express myself in that manner) but you guys all wanted me to stop singing because you thought I sounded terrible? Am I obliged to stop because of your needs? Isn’t it possible that I could understand what your needs are and see how important they are to you and yet still act on my needs? Don’t we all do this at times? Or perhaps we should live our lives trying to make other people happy by doing what they want and never doing anything that they may find offensive or distasteful or triggering or whatever. I don’t know that I could live my life like that even if I tried…
>Think for a minute. Have you ever had someone you care about hurt you? And then had that person apologize for hurting you?You accept the apology and things return to normal, but then in a couple of days that person repeats the hurtful behavior, following it with an apology after finding out you are hurt (again.) This goes on several more times. Each time the apology sounds less sincere to you, doesn't it? And each time you are warier that the behavior will repeat, aren't you? That is how I feel when I keep reading these posts.
I don’t see… That Deneb did anything wrong. The topic was indicated in the subject header. I would have thought that by now people would have learned whether or not to avoid her posts where she is going to be talking about suicide.
> If you want the truth, I personally feel that your posts often sound manipulative and deliberate in your use of triggering words and phrases. Sometimes it SEEMS to me that a post written in the style you write MIGHT have been written to "test" or "push buttons."
That might not be a very helpful way of looking at it… If you think of it as expressive then yes, the intention is to evoke an emotional response (but this isn’t considered manipulative in expressive writing – or if it is ‘manipulative’ loses its judgemental connotations and we understand why it is used). When people respond by saying you are ‘joking’ or aren’t serious because you ‘threaten every other week’ then one attempts to convey the feelings all the more strongly and an unhelpful (and possibly dangerous) cycle is starting…
> part of me thinks you already know it, too, and consequently the fact that you're asking once again makes me think you're TRYING to trigger people here!
Why would someone do this? Why would you do this? (I find it easier to think about things by imagining why I might be led to do similar things). Maybe… Deneb is looking for a little understanding and sympathy for being in such a horrible emotional state.
> Deneb, you've asked so many times why suicide is triggering. If you don't get it, just accept it. If you continue to post things that people have told you hurts/frustrates/saddens them, don't be surprised when you get angry responses, or if people just sort of drift away from you and stop responding to your posts at all.
Yes, some Babblers get ostracised… Lou… I wonder what is going to happen here… She posts helpful posts. She posts happy posts. Are we all going to forget about those when times get tough?
> I need some concrete rules about triggers then...
Tell me which subjects need a trigger warning. It just confuses me.
I’d suggest self injury, suicide, anyone else have any thoughts?
>In a thread above a poster writes about suicide and yet that didn't need a trigger. Why are so many of my posts a trigger to people?
I think… Because you talk about things that are socially taboo in an irreverant way. And that makes people feel nervous… You ask questions that aren’t supposed to be asked… They are just supposed to me magically understood (or I suppose the thought is that you are just supposed to shut up about them). But I used to ask… And I still do… And I’ve worked out some kinds of answers on some of that. So I like your questions. Also… Because you do write to express your emotion. And so the point of expressive writing like that is for other people to understand how you feel. And when other people read that what it does is evoke intense emotions in them. And so people read your posts and catch something of your feeling… Which, as you have noticed, isnt’ terribly pleasant. That’s why trigger warnings are important (or subject headers that indicate). Because I know that when I am in a good place I can feel some of that feeling – but not become lost in it myself. When I am in a bad place I need to leave your posts till I’m feeling a little better because otherwise I am in danger of being lost in the bad feelings myself.
And I think… That that is where the ‘manipulative’ thing comes in. People feel like you are manipulating their emotional responses. Like you are trying to make them feel bad. But its not about that people… Its about obtaining empathy and understanding. And when we are in a bad place… Isn’t that what all of us want???
> I often write that I don't want to kill myself, but sometimes I change my mind. I don't understand why people think I'm making light of suicide.
I think people are still a little hung up on the other post where you were warned about joking about death.
>I really suffer. I suffer so much at times that I do think suicide is the way out. Maybe I just don't know how to express my suffering.
Yeah. In combination with others not knowing how to take your writing about your suffering. Not knowing how to take the intention of your writing.It can lead to unhelpful cicles at times.
I’m sorry :-(
Posted by ClearSkies on October 14, 2005, at 19:19:30
In reply to I'm really struggling here, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 17:01:00
And get the help you need IRL, Deneb. An internet site can only be of limited help. You sound like you are in distress.
ClearSkies
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2005, at 19:20:18
In reply to Please help me see a future, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 18:45:17
mid terms... i was thinking of them as exams. but they aren't so much, are they? middle of the term assessment? that was crunch time for me too.
i think... that you are despairing about your future because your studies are really very important to you and are a huge part of what you see yourself as and where you see yourself in the future.
and so missing a couple mid terms is what is so hard...
and performance anxiety (that you must do really well) probably resulted in you missing them.
so...
i think the best thing you could do to help you find yourself some hope is to get the mid term situation sorted.
phone your p-doc
go and see your p-doc
maybe spend a little time in hospital if that is what he wants (it really isn't that bad and the whole point of it is to get you established on your meds, stabilised, seeing a future for yourself, and getting some time out).he will be able to give you something
you will be able to have a short respiteyou will come back feeling HEAPS better
and you can still complete your courses most probably.
please please sort this out.
i had compassionate withdrawals 3 semesters in a row. would spin out half way through the semester because of performance anxiety and wouldn't think there was any hope for me at all :-(
but with each withdrawal... it just serves to undermine your sense of competence and self respect etc.
i know it probably doesn't seem all that manageable to continue...
but a brief respite (may be) all you need to get yourself back on track
then it will seem more manageable.i know you have had compassionate withdrawals before...
the hardest thing in the world is breaking that cycle and getting through one semester.
next one will be easier i promise you that.
Posted by ClearSkies on October 14, 2005, at 19:31:04
In reply to Re: Need to understand triggers and suicide, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2005, at 19:12:59
>Think for a minute. Have you ever had someone you care about hurt you? And then had that person apologize for hurting you?You accept the apology and things return to normal, but then in a couple of days that person repeats the hurtful behavior, following it with an apology after finding out you are hurt (again.) This goes on several more times. Each time the apology sounds less sincere to you, doesn't it? And each time you are warier that the behavior will repeat, aren't you? That is how I feel when I keep reading these posts.
I don’t see… That Deneb did anything wrong. The topic was indicated in the subject header. I would have thought that by now people would have learned whether or not to avoid her posts where she is going to be talking about suicide.
I think you missed the point here, Alexandra - that there is an apology, then a repeat of action requiring an apology, then an apology... if she hadn't done anything to upset people, then why the cycle of apology and posting repeatedly about the same subject? That's the problem with crying wolf - it does not get listened to if it happens often enough, and when someone is really upset to the point of seriously injuring themselves, it might happen that the cry goes unnoticed, unheard, and not responded to.Try googling this site for
Deneb
apology
sorry
forgiveClearSkies
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 19:42:18
In reply to Re: Need to understand triggers and suicide » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on October 14, 2005, at 19:31:04
I'm sorry people,
I've really messed this time.
This place is better off without me.
All I do is consume resources and support. I'm a parasite. I need to be exterminated. If I really care about people here I would kill myself.
I'm doing everyone a favor.
I'm sorry people.
I can't yet because my Mom is around.
I'm truly sorry I was born.
I'm sorry for living and writing here.
I hurt people.
I need to die for what I do.
Remember what I believe in. No interventions.
No memorial. Just erase me.
Please erase me from existence.
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 14, 2005, at 20:11:11
In reply to Re: Need to understand triggers and suicide, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2005, at 19:12:59
>(((Rainbow))) I’m sorry, I know this is a hard issue for you. It might help to think that sometimes when one is in a really bad space certain information can get forgotten. As a different example… Imagine that you are worried that someone doesn’t like you. They tell you (a couple times) that they do. But then you get depressed… And so… What they said before… Well… It kind of needs to be said again because it has been forgotten. I know that for me, my memory of events / things people have said / alternative ways of looking at the situation is very mood dependent. When my emotions get very intense… I can forget all kinds of stuff.
If I had to ask someone if they were my firned they wouldnt be my firend. Im not following, sorry
> It was just a favor, just a friendly request for a trigger without making a big deal of it.
I know this is hard for you… Maybe you had best avoid posts from Deneb that have a trigger warning on them and / or mention suicide in the subject header?I have been! there was no trigger to the post in question.
> I recall one post where you thought it was funny listening to the way some people tried to kill themselves. thats all.
Yeah. And joking about death isn’t allowed here. Deneb was warned for that – and she hasn’t done it again. I think… Maybe when she mentiones the topic now people tend to think of that other thread? And it calls some of those issues back for people.To me it feels like this is all a repeat over adn over agian but done with slightly differnet words.
This whole thread is about a bablmail that I sent Deneb. I was caught off gueard by something she posted. I ended up in tears WHILE on the phone sick to my stomach ----THERE WAS NO *** TRIGGER***. I thought my email was explaining to her WHY I had a hard time with certain things and I was under the impression that I was gently asking if she would mind putting triggers if certain things were mentioned (which I do not want to say) I cant believe I even read any more of this thread. I can't take it here right now. its too much. Things like this NEVER come up IRL. I dont have to worry about certain topics bringing up things I dont want to think about becasue of the intensity. And no amount of thereoay could make it any less painful. I can't expose myself to this. and tehn feeling ALL ALONE with it which I cant even explain. Its me, its just me, I never fully recovered from the last few threads like this, I should go talk to someonme about this. I take full resonsibilyt for my reactions BUT I was referring to a non triggered post. too sensitive...maybe? But this is a 'social board' ?
If Im an awful person, so be it. I felt I was qutie clear in my babblemail. I really want this to be put to rest now.
Im sorry everyoneDeneb forget I wrote you the babble mail, please, post whatever you want.
see y'all around
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 14, 2005, at 20:14:55
In reply to I don't think I'm going to make it this time, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 19:42:18
there are places that treat your disorder. Why dont you consider going inpatient/outpaitent somewhere. If you really are miserable the way you are...consider it anyway. It could change you life. please get some help, there isnt enough support for you to use this as your sole resource. You need professionals.
Be safe, please
Posted by JenStar on October 14, 2005, at 20:26:21
In reply to Re: You DON'T Need to understand triggers » JenStar, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 16:48:42
Deneb,
I can only interpret words on this site, and I was telling you honestly what I think.Manipulative and suicidal are NOT mutually exclusive...it's possible for someone to be both at the same time. I recognize that very well.
I don't think anyone here wants you to die, even if we get mad at some of your posts. People can disagree and fight, and still not want each other dead! I think you're being very overly dramatic about it...just like in the past when you've questioned over and over whether Dr. Bob wants you to die. (He does not; neither does anyone else.)
This site is not a magic cure-all, and this is not the right place to ask for "real life" help or to set guilt.
I don't think the questions you ask are "bad" questions, per se. I too wonder about suicide, about death, about taboos, about fears. I don't think it's wrong to think or ask about it. I think about these things myself. But the WAY you ask about it is clearly troubling to more than one poster.
Alexandra asks if that matters as long as you're staying within civility guidelines. If it matters to YOU, than it might be a sign that you need to change your behavior. If you LIKE the negative attention, then DON'T change your behavior. It depends on what you want and what you get.
But if you keep posting in the same old ways, you'll get the same old responses. If you want new responses, or to change people's opinions of you on the site, you'll need to change the way you interact. It's that simple.
I hope you're ok and healthy. You should definitely go get help ASAP if you are feeling suicidal for real, and not just thinking about it in a detached kind of way.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 14, 2005, at 20:37:56
In reply to CLARIFICATION » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 14, 2005, at 20:11:11
sorry for my obnoxious remark, I am way too upset to be posting. I just had to come back and say that.
Also forgetting happens to everyone. But how can you forget something like this? What I was trying to say is I just cant understand that.
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 20:43:31
In reply to Re: You DON'T Need to understand triggers » Deneb, posted by JenStar on October 14, 2005, at 20:26:21
>If you want new responses, or to change people's opinions of you on the site, you'll need to change the way you interact. It's that simple.
Do you not think i want to change my behaviour? If I knew how to change my behaviour I wouldn't have to kill myself.
If I knew how to change my behaviour I wouldn't be failing school.
> I hope you're ok and healthy.No, I'm not OK. I've been crying for hours. I'm thinking of ODing tomorrow. I'm thinking of hanging myself outside.
Can I ask for some hugs before I die? I feel really lonely.
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 21:42:49
In reply to Re: You DON'T Need to understand triggers, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 20:43:31
Believe me. you are too young to even think about such things. You have your whole life to get better. If any of us could only be 23 again! You have some good advice here when they tell you to get professional help---take it. What do you have to lose. you're young, intelligent and pretty. Go for it!!! Suicide is never the answer--nor is talking well of it. Good luck
bobby
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 21:53:50
In reply to Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 21:42:49
Hammie...
I love hammieOh boy, here come the tears again...
hammie is so cute...I love hammie
he's so fuzzy and warm
I don't know what to do anymore.
I don't think I will hang myself tomorrow.
I think I will OD
I might go to the hospital
I can't let my parents find out
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 21:53:50
What will it do to your parents and who will take care of hammie? What's so wrong about seeking help--it sure beats the alternative
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 14, 2005, at 22:22:41
In reply to Re: Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
In reply to Re: Hamster girl » Deneb, posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:13:52
> What will it do to your parents and who will take care of hammie? What's so wrong about seeking help--it sure beats the alternative
What am I supposed to do? Go to the hospital and say that I seriously thought about ODing and hanging myself? Then what? What the hell are they supposed to do?
I've told this to people before, they tell me there isn't anything they can do for me. They tell me to go exercise.
I have to at least OD again before showing up for help. They won't take me seriously if I don't OD. I don't care if I accidentally die anymore. I hate my life. I have no life. I have no friends. I have no goals. I have NO life.
When I die, it doesn't matter what others think anymore. I will be free. I won't bother and upset people anymore. I'll be a ghost. I will travel through space and time and visit other worlds. It will be like a dreamworld. Or if there is nothing I'm fine with that too.
Posted by Bobby on October 14, 2005, at 22:27:12
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
How can you be sure of these things?
Posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
In reply to Re: Hamster girl, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 22:23:45
Deneb,
You do not have to OD to be admitted to the hospital. If you tell them you are intending to hurt yourself, they are OBLIGATED to help you and to keep you safe.But you have to be absolutely HONEST with them about your feelings and thoughts.
You do NOT have to kill yourself. Please think hard about even ONE other alternative, even if you don't believe it will help. And then whenever you find yourself saying you have no choice, remind yourself about the other one. Choices equal freedom. Depression and mental illness impairs our ability to see choices.
I don't know your parents. But I am certain that I would want my daughter to reach out and to tell me if she were suffering like you are. Please give your parents a chance. And if they do not understand, reach out to professionals, who are much more likely to understand and to know how to help.I really want to see you get well. Your supportive and happy posts are a joy.
gg
Posted by Angela2 on October 14, 2005, at 23:08:08
In reply to hospital ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
Deneb, I am sorry you are in so much pain. Please don't kill yourself. There is so much to live for.
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
In reply to hospital ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on October 14, 2005, at 22:53:17
but I don't know what to do now
I just don't know what to do.
I think I'm going to live
but things are not changing
my problems are still there
I just don't know what to do now
should I OD tomorrow?
i don't have much time to decide
i think i will live, unless i get unlucky or am too afraid to seek help
either way, please please please don't contact my parents
i can't let them know
if I get locked up I will escape, I can't let my parents know
Posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:49:46
In reply to I've stopped crying, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
I don't want to think anymore
I'm just going to go to sleep now
Posted by caraher on October 15, 2005, at 0:25:53
In reply to I've stopped crying, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:42:12
Deneb, you really are a delightful presence. Don't hurt youself. Get help. Your problems are not as insurmountable as they seem. We care about you a lot and would hate to see you OD or worse. Take some time to just sit with Hammy or something calming when your soul is in such turmoil.
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
In reply to I'm tired, posted by Deneb on October 14, 2005, at 23:49:46
Don't know what is going to happen tomorrow
don't know how to make my problems go away
don't know how to get my life back together
don't know how I can *not* attempt to kill myself after all the threats i made
don't think people here believe how much i suffer
I think I have to prove this by ODing tomorrow.
I think this place is bad for me.
i think some people don't understand me and don't believe me
I think I will OD to prove myself. If I die, that is the ultimate proof
I probably won't die, it's pretty difficult to kill oneself, I've done research on this
some people don't believe me here...i have to prove myself
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 1:39:19
In reply to Can't sleep, can't stop crying, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 1:44:29
In reply to Can't sleep, can't stop crying, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 1:36:01
the hospital than dead. You don't have to worry about them being angry because you ask for help.
I am a parent. My daughter ended up in the hospital and they helped her so much! It was sad to see her need to go there, but it was a huge relief that she got the help she needed.
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