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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sunny10 on September 1, 2005, at 13:31:15
In reply to Re: I wondered about foreign aid also » Dominique, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 13:18:27
right now. Please let us all be civil. Opinions are opinions, after all, and everyone has one.
Dominique, I know you are frustrated and in a lot of emotional pain. Just know that my thoughts are with you. Take care of yourself, okay?
Posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 16:48:04
In reply to Re: I wondered about foreign aid also » Dominique, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 13:18:27
I Have some friends who went with their boats to try to rescue some people in New Orleans.
Someone stabbed one of my friends and took his boat. I am disgusted.
An Acadian Ambulance driver was robbed when he went to help.
Who is gonna want to help these people? I am disgusted. - Did I say that already?
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 16:51:47
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by sunny10 on September 1, 2005, at 13:31:15
> right now. Please let us all be civil. Opinions are opinions, after all, and everyone has one.
Yes they do, but that was not stated as an opinion, it was stated as fact. Even if it had been stated as opinion, it's no less hurtful than saying " I think it's all the black people who are causing problems" and the facts are, that it's not true, opportunists come from all walks of life
I didn't respond to that post out of self righteous indignation, or a desire to add to any tension, but out of hurt. I'm on welfare and statements like that cut me to the quick. It's a terrible terrible thing that Dominique and others are going through right now, and I'm sure that people say things that they wouldn't normally, laying blame is a common reaction.I try to understand that, and perhaps I could have been more gentle in my post. However I made no ad-hominem remarks, I stated what is true, and statistics will back me up.
I too have a right to respond to something that affects me deeply and personally. There is nothing uncivil about correcting a remark that negatively and falsely catagorizes any group of people.
>
> Dominique, I know you are frustrated and in a lot of emotional pain. Just know that my thoughts are with you. Take care of yourself, okay?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 17:19:38
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress » sunny10, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 16:51:47
((((Gabbi)))))
I'm on welfare too.
But it is better than resorting to a life of crime, I would have thought ;-)
Though if I had done so I dare say I would have been better off
(The possibility of prison aside)
I suppose the two aren't mutually exclusive...
But I really don't think I'd bother with fighting to get appropriate welfare payments...
Putting up with the 'welfare bum' attitude which fortunately isn't so very prevalent in my society
If I had an alternative way to make ends meetSome people are opportunists...
And unfortunately
Circumstances that have the potential to bring out the best in people...
Also have the potential to bring out the worst...Different people react differently.
And some people freak out when faced with such loss...
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 17:20:52
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 17:19:38
like how sometimes when someone goes into the water to rescue another from drowning and the person drowning is so frightened that they cling...
And if they can't be made to stop the person has to leave them...
Or they will both drown.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 17:24:12
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 17:19:38
> ((((Gabbi)))))
>
> I'm on welfare too.
> But it is better than resorting to a life of crime, I would have thought ;-)Thanks Alex.
Thank you..((((Squish)))
> But I really don't think I'd bother with fighting to get appropriate welfare payments...
> Putting up with the 'welfare bum' attitude which fortunately isn't so very prevalent in my society
> If I had an alternative way to make ends meet
>
>
>
> Some people are opportunists...
> And unfortunately
> Circumstances that have the potential to bring out the best in people...
> Also have the potential to bring out the worst...
>
> Different people react differently.
>
> And some people freak out when faced with such loss...
Posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 17:34:52
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress » sunny10, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 16:51:47
I appologize to anyone who took offense to the welfare issue. Yes, I am under a great deal of stress right now (as are many others) and was ranting. I see how someone could take offense to my words. But please know that I was upset with the looters and DO NOT claim that all welfare recipients are bad people. I have family members and friends that are aided by the welfare system themselves.
In my opinion, I just feel that the "looters" whom are stealing unnecessary goods, should not be excused on the basis that they feel it as being "owed" to them.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 17:42:28
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 17:34:52
> I appologize to anyone who took offense to the welfare issue.
Thank you for the apology, I appreciate it, that's one of the only times I've been hurt by something said on Babble> In my opinion, I just feel that the "looters" whom are stealing unnecessary goods, should not be excused on the basis that they feel it as being "owed" to them.
>
People who loot are looters.. that's it, they aren't connected to any class of people other than those who steal
Posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:04:24
In reply to Re: Redirect: foreign aid + please be civil, posted by lynn970 on August 31, 2005, at 22:32:11
looks like it, huh.....
Posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:09:26
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress » Dominique, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 17:42:28
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 18:09:46
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 17:34:52
> But please know that I was upset with the looters and DO NOT claim that all welfare recipients are bad people.
Right.
Just like 'I DO NOT claim that all black people are bad people' or 'I DO NOT claim that all homosexuals are bad people'.Because it still sounds like there is an assumption that more are than are standard in a typical population otherwise why draw attention to the classification (people on welfare, black people, homosexuals)?
>I have family members and friends that are aided by the welfare system themselves.
Yeah and some of my best friends are black etc...
> In my opinion, I just feel that the "looters" whom are stealing unnecessary goods, should not be excused on the basis that they feel it as being "owed" to them.
I don't think anybody suggested this.
I don't think anybody suggested excusing their behaviour.
I don't think anybody suggested that they felt it was owed to them either.
I'm sorry you are under a lot of stress...
But please be careful about making assumptions about groups of people...
There are people here from those groups...
And they might think you are talking about them...And then they feel under stress...
And round and round we go...
Posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:22:53
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 18:09:46
Can we be civil adults here???? I apologized for accidentally hurting someone's feelings. But I believe that we have now come to the point where assumptions are running wild....
And by the way, yes my best friend is black. He's my husband!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 18:35:00
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:22:53
if you look at the time on my posts i was composing mine as you were apologising
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 18:40:00
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress » Dominique, posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2005, at 18:35:00
> if you look at the time on my posts i was composing mine as you were apologising
sorry that might not be so clear...sometimes posts cross. if you start composing a post then you don't see what other people have contributed to the thread in the time it takes you to compose your post.
if you check out the time of posting (at the top of the post) then this can give you an indication.
if you beat someone by 30 seconds then its probably safe to assume they didn't read yours before they responded.
and sometimes... i go for a cigarette break while composing...
so i missed your last two posts before my response
make sense?
Posted by TexasChic on September 1, 2005, at 18:46:24
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:22:53
I'm so sorry. I have an interest in all things psychological, and when I made that statement I was thinking about what could possibly explain the mentality of looters. I didn't mean it as an excuse for them. I just like to try to figure out why people act the way they do. I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was defending people who are selfishly taking advantage of a terrible situation just to benefit themselves.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 19:06:01
In reply to (((sorry for hurting your feelings))) (nm), posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:09:26
I'm sorry that was our first interaction on the board, I'm glad we worked it out.
Now, onward and upward : )
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 19:12:06
In reply to Whoa! Did I cause all this???, posted by TexasChic on September 1, 2005, at 18:46:24
No, of course not! Threads end up being like that old game of telephone sometimes. And to me it didn't sound like you were trying to defend looters. There's a big difference between trying to find an explanation, or understand and defending or excusing.
People try to get into the heads of all kinds of criminals, without intending to excuse their actions. And besides, people can "feel" a sense of entitlement, or a justification for looting, or even murder, but stating that as a possiblity for how they might think, doesn't mean that you agree that it's correct.
Posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 19:27:05
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this??? » TexasChic, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 19:12:06
Dominique, just as the "looters" say that they are acting out of frustration, I think that people should realize that your venting the other day was out of frustration as well
keep the smiling.
I love all of you postors.
Posted by TexasChic on September 1, 2005, at 19:57:52
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this??? » TexasChic, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 19:12:06
Thanks Gabbix2. I just thought I may have come off as sounding insensitive toward the people this is actually happening to, which of course was not my intention.
I'm thinking about trying to do some volunteer work this weekend since I can't really help financially. Alot of the New Orleans refugees are being relocated here. One thing I wish I could do is to find a way to get some toys and games to the kids. I know that's not a necessity, but I just feel so bad for the kids. They must be so bored and miserable. I can't stand to see kids in pain.
-T
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 20:43:21
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this???, posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 19:27:05
> Dominique, just as the "looters" say that they are acting out of frustration,
Yes, but if in fact the looters said that, would you be willing to accept their behaviour? I don't think so.
Spousal abusers often say they are frustrated, or had a bad day, do we allow that as an excuse?Of course Dominique was venting out of frustration, and I think we do understand that. I totally accept Dominque's apology and this is the last I'll say on the subject. (Sorry dominique, I know this is a moot point between us now)
But when other people are *hearing* your frustration, and hearing themselves being unjustifiably catagorized, or associated with those who commit such cowardly heinous acts, it's also fine to say "Hey! that's not okay, promoting those myths about people on welfare hurts!"
Be angry at the hurricane, be angry at the looters, be angry at God, but don't blame those who are perpetually being scapegoated only because they are at the bottom of the food chain. We have feelings too, and get frustrated and hurt at continually hearing those myths about people on welfare.Welfare is difficult enough to deal with. Getting something for nothing? ha. You only have to sell your soul.
Having a mental illness and being on welfare can destroy your spirit, and the stigma and comments associated with is what pounds the final nail into the coffin.
The truth is the truth, even when inconvenient. It wasn't being used as a tool to make someone feel bad, but a refusal to roll over an play dead when being targeted again, by what amounts to an almost daily assault on our humanity and seems to be one of the few socially acceptable prejudices remaining.
Had that comment been made about Jews, or Blacks, no one would have thought it was okay no matter how frustrated the person venting was. It may have been forgiven, but no one would have been considered insensitive for speaking out about it.My silence will not protect me, and the day I become silent is the is the day I give up all hope, of bettering myself, and of feeling I deserve the most basic considerations afforded others. I will not let that happen.
As Dr. Bob has pointed out, it is when you are stressed and frustrated that you have to be most careful about what you post. And that's why it took me four hours until I could post about this topic.
Posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 20:56:40
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this??? » lynn970, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 20:43:21
I was just trying to keep the peace.
When my dad had TB we were on welfare...Dont like to see babblers argue
Posted by TexasChic on September 1, 2005, at 21:01:31
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this??? » lynn970, posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 20:43:21
I don't think you did anything wrong by trying to correct what you felt was an inaccurate portayal. We're all entitled to our opinions. And discussing them is what makes this the 'Social' board!
-T
Posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 21:06:50
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by Dominique on September 1, 2005, at 18:22:53
>But I believe that we have now come to the >point where assumptions are running wild....
>And by the way, yes my best friend is black. >He's my husband!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does the society you live in make it tough to be in a bi-racial relationship? (assuming that you are in one)
Posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 21:28:53
In reply to Re: Dominique is under a great deal of stress, posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 21:06:50
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 1, 2005, at 21:29:01
In reply to Re: Whoa! Did I cause all this???, posted by lynn970 on September 1, 2005, at 20:56:40
> I was just trying to keep the peace.
> When my dad had TB we were on welfare...
>
> Dont like to see babblers argue
>I appreciate that, and your concern and It's not my favorite thing either, but then neither is a forced, tepid congiality.
I did understand that she was speaking in frustration and I'd mentioned in my previous post that people are far more likely to say things they wouldn't normally, when in a frightening position such as Dominiques.We cleared it up. It was not an argument. I said how I felt, and she apologized. But I'm not going to let a hurtful generalization, slip by for the sake of keeping peace.
After all it's during times of frustration that we are quite likely (not always) able to find out where people really stand. It's more simple to be fair and kind when everything is going well.
I find it more peaceful after the people involved have talked it through, and worked through things, as we did. You get to know someone that way, I mean it's not ideal
And I don't do it as a matter of course :)As it is, the fact that Dominique apologized, said more to me about her than her original post. I really respect that, and if I'd not said anything, I would only have the hurt I felt at her remark to associate with her.
Now I feel really bad for Dominique, don't worry, I won't mention your name, at least not about this subject, again, I promise : )
It's gone on long enough
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