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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
hi all,
I wanted to get an opinion from you on this hypothetical thought question.My husband was reading an email from a buddy who was asking hypothetical questions. One question was: "There are 100 people. Some have an incurable illness and may die. You can choose to sacrifice 5 people to save the 50. Do you do it?"
My answer was, MAYBE, but it depended on who the 50 were and who the 5 were. If they were all strangers, it might make sense to go with the numbers. But if the 5 were my friends or family, no way would I sacrifice them!
My hubby went with the straight numbers. THEN he said: "If there was a bus about to crash, full of people, and I could save them all by sacrificing myself, I would do it."
I thought about it and said, "I might not, I don't know."
The I said to him, "If I had the chance to save either you or the bus, I'd save you."
He was quiet. He said, "That's a bit dicier. You or the bus?" He didn't immediately say he'd save ME.
I went on. "If I had to personally shoot each person on the bus to save your life, I'd do it," I told him. He winced. "I would!" I said vehemently. "That's how much I love you."
He didn't answer. "F*** all the people on the bus," I said. "I love you so much that I would rather have you than them all. To me, it's not about straight numbers. It's about the people involved and who I love more."
I was irritated that he didn't say he'd save me over the bus. And I'm not saying I would be HAPPY to send a bus full of people to their doom, but I'd do it to save HIM.
So the question is, if you feel like answering it, would you save the bus or the man/woman you love best in the world? ASsume the bus is full of strangers. And would you sacrifice yourself to save the bus?
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on June 14, 2005, at 1:03:47
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
> So the question is, if you feel like answering it, would you save the bus or the man/woman you love best in the world?
I think I would ask the person I loved whether he/she wanted to sacrifice him or herself. I would respect his/her decision.
If he/she wanted to be saved, I think I would have to apologize and save the bus. Then I would probably kill myself to get over the guilt.
I'm only speculating on what I would do though, I've never met the love of my life before, so I can't say for sure. I just don't know what true love is about.
>ASsume the bus is full of strangers. And would you sacrifice yourself to save the bus?
I would sacrifice myself to save the strangers, just like how I would sacrifice myself to save you guys here. :-)
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2005, at 7:23:56
In reply to Re: weird thought question ***possible trigger*** » JenStar, posted by Deneb on June 14, 2005, at 1:03:47
I would...
Sacrifice my loved one for the bus
(they are other peoples loved ones).
I would...
Sacrifice myself for the bus
(they are other peoples loved ones).
But if it was a toss up between my dependent child and the bus, I'd go with the child.
Even if other peoples dependent children were on the bus.If it was me or one person on a bus I'm not sure what I would do.
I think I'd save them but I'm not sure.
My officemate is an egoist
He thinks it is morally acceptable to save yourself over someone else.
But I'm not so sure.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 14, 2005, at 11:27:13
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
Well, human instinct always fights for survival, noble intentions aside. Put to the test, I believe we would *all* follow that instinct and save ourselves.
I would take it a step further and say I'd always shaft the strangers to save someone I know (friend, enemy, whatever.) Strangers are an abstract thought, people I know are not.
But then afterwards I would probably throw myself over a cliff with guilt.
Of course, if you are considering ethics hypothetically and leave all feelings out of it, I'd answer differently.
Posted by just plain jane on June 14, 2005, at 12:39:57
In reply to Re: strangers be hanged » JenStar, posted by AuntieMel on June 14, 2005, at 11:27:13
Who would I send off, them or me?
Them. My answer. Them.
Quite simply.
In my universe, it would be their bus ticket Home. Sending myself off would be selfish, turning my back on what further responsibilities God has yet for me here.
In my universe there is no doubt of God, or of Salvation.
So, much as I've wanted to leave at times, I'd have to stay and face their loved ones.
My plug will be Pulled someday, but not by me.
Posted by Shortelise on June 14, 2005, at 13:23:34
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
There is no doubt in my mind that my knee jerk reaction would be to save my husband, and I know for certain that his would be to save me. However, if I were to have to think about it, if I had time in the moment to make a concious choice, it would be a difficult decision.
Posted by Deneb on June 14, 2005, at 13:42:18
In reply to Re: weird thought question ***possible trigger*** » JenStar, posted by Deneb on June 14, 2005, at 1:03:47
Hmmmmm...perhaps I should change my mind.
I underestimate the survival instinct sometimes. Maybe I would save myself if it were a spur of the moment thing.
Posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 13:55:11
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
so, as an update, my husband finally DID confirm that he would save me over the bus. Yaaahh! I'm loved! :) (Although I know it's a horrible way to make someone express love.)
I have a hard time too. It's hard to differentiate rational thoughts from knee-jerk reactions. But I really do think I'd always move to save my loved ones, even if they were smaller in number. I know I'm selfish that way, but it's the way I am. I admire altruistic people, but I'm not sure I'm wired that way.
I do lots of nice things, though -- I hold doors for people, I give up my seat on the bus or subway to pregnant women or elderly people. I smile. I give money or buy sandwiches for homeless people. If someone behind me in the checkout line has only a few items, I always let them go in front of me. I know those are small things, but I try to be "nice" in daily life. I suppose you could say that the benefit to me (feeling good) outweighs the "pain" (waiting longer, standing, etc.)
But in a bigger situation, I just don't think I'd be all that altruistic to save a bus of people. Hopefully I'll never really be in that situation!
JenStar
Posted by Jazzed on June 14, 2005, at 13:59:58
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
Must've been very hurtful for your husband not to respond (without a 2nd thought) that he would save you! Once my husband and I were biking and a dog went after me, did he save me? NO! Have I ever let him forget it? NO! Do I tell my kids and other people about it in front of him? Absolutely! LOL I will have to put this hypothetical situation to him, and see how he does!
But anyway, I hope I NEVER ever have to make a decision like this, but my gut reaction is that I would save myself, I would save my loved ones, esp. my kids. I think if it ever came up, which I hope it never does, that I would sacrifice myself to save my children, they are my world.
Jazzed
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 14, 2005, at 14:20:18
In reply to weird thought question ***possible trigger***, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 0:36:16
and the large screen T.V?
A sad -funny true story. About 4 years ago we had a small earthquake in the middle of the night.
I went to work that morning, and my co-worker told me that she'd grabbed onto her husband, and he left her to grab onto the T.V ...
Posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 14:39:07
In reply to Re: weird thought question ***possible trigger*** » JenStar, posted by Jazzed on June 14, 2005, at 13:59:58
hi Jazzy,
I don't have kids yet (hopefully will, someday!) but I've heard from a lot of people that they would sacrifice themselves for their kids. It must be so great to love someone that much!JenStar
Posted by caraher on June 14, 2005, at 14:44:38
In reply to Re: weird thought question ***possible trigger*** » JenStar, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 13:55:11
> so, as an update, my husband finally DID confirm that he would save me over the bus. Yaaahh! I'm loved! :) (Although I know it's a horrible way to make someone express love.)
Don't read too much into his hesitation. Posed as an abstract moral dilemma it's hard to justify saving the loved one over a large number of strangers, no matter how beloved that one is.
I think it's pretty much impossible to predict what one would actually do. I think you'd find people making different decisions faced with a real-life decision, and I wouldn't fault them whatever they did.
Posted by Jazzed on June 14, 2005, at 14:49:25
In reply to Re: weird thought question ***possible trigger*** » Jazzed, posted by JenStar on June 14, 2005, at 14:39:07
> hi Jazzy,
> I don't have kids yet (hopefully will, someday!) but I've heard from a lot of people that they would sacrifice themselves for their kids. It must be so great to love someone that much!
>
> JenStarIt really is Jen. The love can be so intense your heart sometimes feels like it's just going to burst out of your chest.
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 14, 2005, at 14:51:00
In reply to What if he had to choose between you.., posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 14, 2005, at 14:20:18
THAT is absolutely the worst! LOL Good luck making love to the TV, or better yet, good luck getting it to love you back!
Jazzed
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