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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Toph on May 3, 2005, at 17:36:16
This issue has undoubtedly been discussed here before, but it is always a decision that I struggle with. Being so open here is easy when I am among people who share my experience, and because anonymity always helps. But knowing who to trust with my illness is a tough call because the consequences of confiding in the wrong person are often severe. Here's my list:
-My family knows about my mental illness because they used to put me in the psych ward. We don't ever talk about it anymore, unless I bring it up.
-My first wife knew about it because she would visit me in the hopital. She divorced me, in part, because of it.
-My kids were small when they visited me in the hopital, but I'm sure my wife told them I was insane to justify to them thowing me out of the house. I have discussed my illness with them when they turned about 12 years old. They hadn't seen me decompensate since I started taking lithium.
-I told my second wife after a few dates because I was insanely in love with her and temporarily deranged. Thank God she didn't dump me.
Here's where the dilemma starts, who do you tell that you have a mental illness outside your family? Since I no longer (knock on wood) have psychotic manic or depressive episodes it is totally up to me if I want to share this significant aspect of my life with someone.
-I have told (excepting you guys, of course) only three people about my bipolar disease. All were women that I worked with closely for many years before confiding in them. They are excellent social workers whose work I admire and who care very much about me as a friend and colleague. After my disclosure neither of them seemed to change their opinion of me. And, as far I know, they have held this information in confidence. I suppose I was fortunate that I chose carefully.
Sometimes I wish that I could come out of the closet completely. I fear though that I would be discriminated against somehow, that people would formulate an opinion about me based on their preconceived notion of a mentally ill person. I feel frustrated in some ways that I have to hold a secret about myself that has in many ways shaped my personality. But I know how cruel people can be, so I am overly cautious about who I tell. I think when I retire or change jobs I will dramatically inform the 60 or so people with whom I work that I am bipolar. I would hope that in some way it would instruct them that competent mentally ill people can unknowingly be in their midst. Then again, some may say, "I always knew that guy was nuts."
Toph
Posted by anastasia56 on May 3, 2005, at 18:44:56
In reply to *Coming Out*, posted by Toph on May 3, 2005, at 17:36:16
interesting topic. My take would be similar to weddings. I never wanted a huge wedding because i had been to too many weddings where people only came for the free booze. My wedding was small with only those people who really loved me in attendance.
I would only tell those people who didn't come for the free booze. Only the people that love and care about you...and then only if there is a reason. Placing the 'only if there is a reason' codicil on this is probably more a personal thing as i tend to play my personal life very close to the vest.
ana
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 21:08:05
In reply to *Coming Out*, posted by Toph on May 3, 2005, at 17:36:16
This is a huge issue for me. It seems that if I purposely keep it a secret, then it must mean that I find it shameful. And I don't think it should be something I feel ashamed of. Not that I'd talk about it for the sake of talking. But sometimes something comes up on the news and people talk, and I feel like I should be able to casually mention my own experience.
But when it comes right down to it, I find I am ashamed, and usually say nothing.
Posted by Damos on May 3, 2005, at 21:31:56
In reply to *Coming Out*, posted by Toph on May 3, 2005, at 17:36:16
Mate this is a hard one. About 2.5 years ago when I knew I had really lost it in a big way I took a deep breath and told my immediate boss and the Vice President of group in which I work. Like Ana and Dinah I'm naturally pretty tight with personal info so this was a big, no make that huge thing and only possible because of the trust I had in the two of them and they've been great. Apart from that 5 people total outside of family and housemate, all of whom I thought it was important to share it with for various reasons and who I trust completely. Family have been completely useless about it and housemate thinks it's all BS but has at least kept it to themself. My rule of thumb is that if the relationship with that person is important to me and I trust them enough to honour my privacy then I'll tell them.
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 3, 2005, at 22:32:14
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Damos on May 3, 2005, at 21:31:56
i only venture to IGA..(look i used caps!)
or the drug store...i really have only my so to worry about..even so ...i can only email important issues..mental issues..
so many others hold ..nasty..hurtful..painful..ideas about me..but i live in my own world...is that okay?
look how well it has helped me...
where the hell am i ?
Posted by alexandra_k on May 3, 2005, at 22:51:14
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 21:08:05
Hmm.
I guess I see it as fairly personal information.
Like sex
Like how much you earn
Like who you vote for
And I only share that info with people I trust.
Same goes for my mental health stuff.
I don't want most people to know.
Not because I am ashamed of it
But because it is personal information that simply isn't most peoples business.
Also: there still is stigma out there and I don't want it to affect peoples perception of me. People who know me well tend not to care. The people who are most likely to judge me are people who don't know me very well - and my mental health issues are none of their business anyway.I told my supervisor at uni.
Because I need time off sometimes.
Both from work and from tutoring.
He actually came to visit me when I was in hospital (on the psych ward)
EEP!
I did not like that.
I think I muttered something about how I had been working on my thesis...
But he is okay with it.
But sometimes he seems a little too 'careful' around me.
Sometimes he seems to pity me.
But I don't take it too personally.
Because he is socially awkward and fairly inept.
And he gets over it at times.
Posted by sunny10 on May 4, 2005, at 8:19:18
In reply to Re: *Coming Out*, posted by alexandra_k on May 3, 2005, at 22:51:14
I think of it as the same as diabetes or cancer or any other type of disease....
Most people just don't go around telling everyone they come in contact with that they have poor health, no matter the name of the underlying condition.
But they do tell those who can be a help, or who need an explanation for times when you may need a little extra help. Like a boss.
I believe that in the States, we even have employment laws that protect you by demanding that the work environment provide a safe place in which people with special needs can work.
Your special needs may be a simple as needing a "mental health day" from time to time; not a ergonomically correct keyboard, et cetera...
Your health should never be a subject of shame; sh*t happens to the nicest people...
Knowing who you can trust to actually be a help (even if it's just the security of their knowledge) is the only important thing. Because, yes, there are always gossipers in life. And, frankly, it doesn't matter what you tell them- they take a fragment and blow it all out of proportion and that's how the stigma comes into play...
Be you, be wise, be well,
sunny10
Posted by Lydia on May 4, 2005, at 10:12:14
In reply to Re: *Coming Out*, posted by sunny10 on May 4, 2005, at 8:19:18
Yup this is tough for me too.
Alexandra_K I like your response.
When you keep something secret for long enough, something intensly personal- vulnerabilities that you have, be prepared to feel dissapointment with people's reaction when you decide to *come out*. Because there are certain expectations born from bottled-up emotions.
It is kind of like a cruel joke, because people with mental illness are the ones who need the most emotional support; but we're also the one's made to feel marginalized and ashamed, so it's hard to reach out for that support.
Posted by Toph on May 4, 2005, at 21:44:22
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 21:08:05
>
> But when it comes right down to it, I find I am ashamed, and usually say nothing.
>Shame is such a nasty word. I feel angry, embarrassed, and sad to have my illness. But I am ashamed about all the stupid stuff I have done that requires no DSM IV diagnosis to do. Frankly Dinah, if you recall over the last year I have commented on several ocassions about my discovering a new facet to the gem that you are - but ashamed? - well, you seem too damn sure of yourself to be ashamed of this part of yourself, a part that has contributed in making you one of the most tolerant, kind and thoughtful people I know. So why ashamed already?
Toph
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Dinah, posted by Toph on May 4, 2005, at 21:44:22
Hmmm... Two things, I suppose. I'm not really as self assured as I sometimes seem here. Socially, I'm quite shy... No, not shy. Something else. Absolutely convinced of my inadequacy.
And the second thing is old pain. Emotional instability was considered behaving badly in my family of origin (a rather incredibly emotionally unstable family BTW). You were supposed to just behave better and not be upset.
My brain knows the truth. After all, I think Babblers are great, and see no reason for them to be ashamed of anything. But it's hard for it to seep down.
Posted by sunny10 on May 5, 2005, at 8:18:38
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 21:52:38
always easier to fogive others than forgive ourselves, right Dinah?!?
Me, too... LOGICALLY, I know better, but to FEEL good about myself is somehow much harder.
I'm going back to therapy. And I'm going to start anger management therapy, too. I think I am just very angry at everyone at this point, including myself, (excluding my fellow-babblers- you guys are the bright light in my day).
The buried anger what makes me feel shame.
Dinah, I wish you could see yourself the way we see you.
Posted by Susan47 on May 5, 2005, at 9:50:36
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Dinah, posted by Toph on May 4, 2005, at 21:44:22
I went to a support group for adults with invisible disabilities recently. And it was wonderful, because all these women have the same problems I do, and no one is ashamed to say they have ADD or they're bipolar, whatever it is it's part of who they are and they've learned to manage it, their families live with it, their friends and coworkers are educated about it and the overwhelming feeling was one of "My friends all love and care about me, they accept me because I accept myself, I don't choose people who can't accept me". Which is nice, you know it was lovely to get that support and understanding from strangers, but it isn't common is it? I think most "normal" people are still ignorant about mental disabilities and really are judgemental. My ex- used it against me, until it came to the point where I accepted these things about myself and could talk about the changes I wanted to make. He doesn't use it against me quite so much, now, he's more understanding. The thing is, we do have to constantly advocate for ourselves. We do. And I'm here cheering you on, but I don't know about making the big announcement, that sounds a bit manic, y'know?
Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 14:30:00
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Dinah, posted by sunny10 on May 5, 2005, at 8:18:38
Thank you, Sunny.
Strangely enough, I see "Dinah" in a far more positive light than I see myself. I worry that if I went to the Babble party, for instance, that the body in front of people would keep them from seeing the Dinah underneath. :)
I'm glad you're going back to therapy and going to anger management if you think that will do you good. I've always sensed a real core of solidness in you, Sunny. And I'm glad you're doing what you need to do to strengthen that core.
Hugs,
Dinah
Posted by Toph on May 5, 2005, at 22:21:30
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Susan47 on May 5, 2005, at 9:50:36
I don't know, I just think that it would be very liberating to do something like getting on the public address system at work and annoucing, "Good morning everyone. Oh, did I ever mention that I have bipolar disease? It must have slipped my mind. Have a nice day." It's sad that telling people who supposedly care about me something that is an important part of me would be the stupidest thing I could possibly do. What really worries me is that I do stupid things all the time.
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:14:37
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Susan47, posted by Toph on May 5, 2005, at 22:21:30
but does everyone who would hear that PA system announcement truly care for and understand you?
I have often thought that would help me, too, but my reality is that some people who repect me at work may no longer respect me if they have absolutely no knowledge of mental health issues- it would color the way they react to me, professionally...
Posted by Susan47 on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:01
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Susan47, posted by Toph on May 5, 2005, at 22:21:30
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. That "stupid thing" issue is a big one for me, being hypomanic. My pdoc confirmed it, I finally have something solid to work on, solid ground I can set my feet onto and say, Yes, this was my problem, and now I can work to change it. Therps should know that for some of us it's a huge relief to know what our issues are, I don't know that I should've been seeing a T without a solid diagnosis of some sort beforehand. What makes me upset is that it takes so long, so much time, to come to a conclusion about a patient, I suppose being the hypo- not the hyper- type it's harder to see. I'm convinced that my therapist thought he could "fix" me up with behavioural therapy. That doesn't work, it wasn't working and I'm not sure he knew what to do with that. Sigh. Anyway, the whole thing was derailed for other reasons.
You know, Toph, the thing I have been finding out is that many of my friends and the people I'm attracted to have the same issues I do. Isn't that weird? So when I say something about myself, more often than not I get a lot of empathy, understanding, and hope, because the people I like are really nice people, even though they also are manic/depressive, have attention disorders, hypersensitivity ... yes. It's great.
If I could change my life at this point, you know what I'd ask for? I wouldn't ask to be different. I'd ask to know myself, really know who and how I am, from a very early age.
That's the real Gift in my life.
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 13:53:26
In reply to Re: *Coming Out* » Toph, posted by Susan47 on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:01
Posted by AuntieMel on May 6, 2005, at 15:26:26
In reply to *Coming Out*, posted by Toph on May 3, 2005, at 17:36:16
I find that since I started doing that *I* feel better. I don't make announcements, I don't have 'talks' with people. I just say it like I'd say anything else. Like - 'geez I'm late for an appt. with my shrink.' or whatever.
It's gotten so natural I don't even think of it anymore. And nobody at work has said anything rude or snide either.
Posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 8:53:30
In reply to Re: I tell everyone, posted by AuntieMel on May 6, 2005, at 15:26:26
yeah- I'm not really "hiding it"...
But then again, my T's have always told me that I "share too much, too soon with others", so now I try to hide it....
It's all so confusing...
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 19:02:17
In reply to Re: I tell everyone, posted by AuntieMel on May 6, 2005, at 15:26:26
Not making a big deal of it, but not being ashamed either. I think I tend to swing between the two extremes, but aspire to a happy sensible middle.
Posted by AuntieMel on May 10, 2005, at 9:05:47
In reply to I aspire to that. » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 19:02:17
At first it went no further than close family and my boss. I wasn't ashamed, but I tend to keep my personal business to myself.
But I leave work early every Thursday for therapy. At first it was just 'doctor's appointment' but it worked into 'gotta go see my shrink' and got much easier from there.
Posted by Nettie on May 10, 2005, at 15:24:58
In reply to Re: It wasn't easy at first » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on May 10, 2005, at 9:05:47
Why haven't I discovered this site before? It is a revelation to me that I am not the only one! Thanks.
Some of my colleagues at work know about my illness but most don't. Had to tell my manager because I needed quite a lot of support when things got really bad. Only told others who I am close to, but I imagine they would have worked it out anyway - it would have been fairly obvious. Although saying that, my family still do not know there is anything wrong.
On a positive note I'd been having a bad time and then finding this site was SO good - I can't believe there are all these people out there (or hiding in my computer?) who have these same issues as me :-)
Posted by sunny10 on May 11, 2005, at 9:33:51
In reply to Re: It wasn't easy at first, posted by Nettie on May 10, 2005, at 15:24:58
Posted by AuntieMel on May 11, 2005, at 16:13:37
In reply to Re: It wasn't easy at first, posted by Nettie on May 10, 2005, at 15:24:58
I stumbled on it when I started effexor and wanted information. I found negative posts and thought it was just a bunch of effexor bashers. But it kept popping up on google. I finally stunbled on the main meds page where effexor was in the title of some posts.
I started by reading through the archives. The education I got here can't compare to anywhere else.
This is the end of the thread.
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