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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 19:33:35
I am 5'7 and fairly solidly built. Something that I have realised about myself is that I don't tend to feel physically attracted to guys who are smaller in body type than me.
Even transference doesn't seem to happen too well when the Dr is smaller than me, as is typically the case with Indian, or Eastern p-docs.
I am reminded a little of Margaret Atwood's novel "Lady Oracle" where the protagonist was fairly hefty and she says something about the Count being like an otter scuttering across her vast continent of a body. Well, maybe it is not an otter exactly, but there is something faintly amusing at the thought.
Is transference supposed to be a good thing, a bad thing, or a sometimes good sometimes bad thing? Just wondering because I have done a lot of CBT focus on the here and now type treatment in which it was a bad thing. But some other styles of therapy view it differently.
Has anyone here satisfactorily worked through transference issues???
Bewildered...
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 1:56:16
In reply to Physical attraction and body type, posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 19:33:35
> I am 5'7 and fairly solidly built. Something that I have realised about myself is that I don't tend to feel physically attracted to guys who are smaller in body type than me.
>
> Even transference doesn't seem to happen too well when the Dr is smaller than me, as is typically the case with Indian, or Eastern p-docs.
>
> I am reminded a little of Margaret Atwood's novel "Lady Oracle" where the protagonist was fairly hefty and she says something about the Count being like an otter scuttering across her vast continent of a body. Well, maybe it is not an otter exactly, but there is something faintly amusing at the thought.
>
> Is transference supposed to be a good thing, a bad thing, or a sometimes good sometimes bad thing? Just wondering because I have done a lot of CBT focus on the here and now type treatment in which it was a bad thing. But some other styles of therapy view it differently.
>
> Has anyone here satisfactorily worked through transference issues???
>
> Bewildered...Hi Alexandra,
I have a similar issue myself. I'm 5'9" (and nearly 6' in heels), and have a very difficult time feeling attracted to men shorter than I am. In therapy, however, although I *think* my T may have been shorter than I am, due to the transference I think I may have imagined him as taller regardless :-).
Transference is usually regarded as a good or even essential thing in most types of therapies, particularily psychoanalytic, psychodynamic and humanistic, and there are a large number of specifically transference-focused therapies as well for clients likely to transfer strongly, such as victims of trauma or abuse.
In CBT transference is not usually seen as a "bad" thing, per se, but more of an obstacle that it will be helpful to overcome, as opposed to being a focus for the therapy itself. It is seen generally as a problem on the part of the therapist to create an interactive and, in some ways, "equal" therapeutic relationship with the client, or a failure on the part of the therapist to fully understand the client's perceptions of the world and others.
In psychoanalytically-based or humanistic therapies the emotions of transference are regarded more often as manifestations of past relationships, often dealing with important figures in the client's past, particularily parents or early caregivers. If you feel this may be the case for you and would like to explore those feelings, one of these types of therapies may be best for you.
Transference issues can be very important to work through, and it is essential to find a therapist committed to the longer-term work necessary to examine these basic ways of relating to others. I personally have just had a major failure on the part of my T to address accurately transference and countertransference issues, which lead to his abrupt termination of the therapy. Unfortunately, it seems that if a therapist is unwilling to address their own countertransference emotions they will be no more willing to examine yours. It's essential to find a mature and well-trained therapist if you do want to explore these feelings, in my own experience at least I've found that attempting it with the wrong T can be pretty damaging.
Best, Alexis
Posted by lucy stone on September 11, 2004, at 7:34:37
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and body type, posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 1:56:16
Alexandra, Alexis has said some great things about transference. I think you expect your tranference to be sexual since you say that you are not attracted to men smaller than yourself. Sexual transference is one kind, but as Alexis said parental transference is more common. Since the term is most often used in psychoanalytic orientations the two things of course get intertwined. In other words, you do not need to see you T as sexually attractive to experience transference, and as you work with your T you may experience sexual transference with someone to whom you may not normally be attracted, like to a woman even if you are not a lesbian. I am very tall, 6'2", and my analyst is just one inch taller, but I once had a great deal of transference both paternal and sexual to man much shorter (5'7") and older that I am, even though in real life I am not attracted to men so much shorter that I. He figured in many graphic sexual fantasies. He terminated me abruptly when he decided to sell his practice and retire and I was completely devasted. When I looked for a new T I deliberately sought out a male T older than me and I know I was trying to recreated that experience. In retroscept I know that I was looking for a paternal figure. Over the years we have explored why I did that, what I wanted from him, what it would me if I got it, what I didn't get from my father, ect., ect. It has been enormously helpful to me because throughout my life I have experienced transference with the males around me in ways that were very harmful to me especially to my professional life. I no longer experience the same intense transference to my analyst and I doubt that I will ever again have the problems with male authority figures that have plauged me all my life.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 11, 2004, at 10:47:56
In reply to Physical attraction and body type, posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 19:33:35
I am 5'9 and pretty curvy (size 14) and have always been attracted to very thin men. All of my boyfriends and current husband weigh less than I do. They have all been either my height or taller, but I am also attracted to shorter men. Makes no difference to me. My T is a little taller than I and thin. And there has been some paternal transference as well as sexual transference on my part.
I certainly wouldn't say that we have ever gone in depth about this. He is pretty eclectic in his approach. We talk about dreams and my childhood, etc., but he is pretty focused on CBT. He is uncomfortable talking about transference. By out third month of therapy, I brought in Deborah Lott's book "In Session" for him to read. Which he did. It was only AFTER he told me he read the book that I brought up my feelings of transference.
Anyway, he told me that he read the part in Lott's book about transference so I "didn't have anything to worry about." I assured him I wasn't out to seduce him or anything. HE said "OK, no problem." and we left it at that. That was 9 months ago.
I still genuinely love him and wish he could have been my father. I still fantasize about holding his hand or hugging him or even having sex with him. But I know it's all fantasy and if the opportunity presented itself to take action on these fantasies, I would not do it. We all like the forbidden fruit. He has very strict boundaries (no gifts, no hugging) and these rules of his makes me feel very cared for
So I can genuinely say that we have not "worked through" transference. I don't know how one does that. My T is funny, very smart, loves movies, the Rolling Stones, and Van Morrisson. What more could you want? I love him not only because he has helped me but because he is a warm, intelligent, and funny person who is thinner than I and has brown eyes the size of saucers. I don't think that can be "worked through." But I would love to talk to him more about it. It's sort of like the elephant sitting in the room. Many times I feel there is chemistry between us but I'm sure it's just wishful thinking.
Posted by Susan47 on September 11, 2004, at 18:00:57
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and body type, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 11, 2004, at 10:47:56
While driving today my eye caught this man, from behind. His body build and the way he carried himself made me feel instantly attracted to him. I realize his type has attracted me all my life, and then I realized my last therapist was the same type. And of course being in the same *room* with him made my knees weak. Yikes, how awful for me.
Posted by alexis6 on September 11, 2004, at 18:15:42
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and body type, posted by lucy stone on September 11, 2004, at 7:34:37
Hi Lucy,It is so good to hear others have similar issues relating to male authority figures (and I'm pleased you were able to overcome them!)-I had a terrible relationship with my father, and have had constant problems since teenagehood with attractions to male teachers, bosses, etc...I even chose a boyfriend who is 15 years older than I am (although he is nothing like my father, thankfully). Thank you for your kind words about my post as well, I'm very new to this and it means very much to me :-).
Best, Alexis
Posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 11:24:37
In reply to Physical attraction and body type, posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 19:33:35
I'm not sure if this relates at all to any of you but here's a short blip on height as it relates to relationships and attraction. I'm fairly tall at 5'11" and I love to wear heels so I found this interesting. Perhaps if I were short and petite, I wouldn't still be single.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992667&lpos=related_article2
Posted by Susan47 on September 13, 2004, at 11:42:03
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 11:24:37
Read the page and that really sucks. I was 5'8", now hovering at one-half inch shorter than that and still too tall. It sucks to be discriminated against. I don't have boobs either. I'm the long and lean type. Frig frig frig. I wish ... when life is over, there's memory of it, I just have to do the best I can with what I have dammit.
Posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 12:09:30
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Wildflower, posted by Susan47 on September 13, 2004, at 11:42:03
Yeah, people always talk about the petite men and women being discriminated against but nothing for tall ones. We just cannot enter a room quielty. I've noticed that I'm beginning to slouch due to being more and more uncomfortable in my skin.
I'm attracted to men 6'2" and above but it seems that they are only interested in the ones that are 5'. It's the short men that find me interesting... My *favorite* pickup line/insult was from a guy much shorter than me who said "wow, you're really tall but I'm not afraid of climbing heights." I hate it when people say, "oh, you're tall." I've never gone up to someone and said "wow, you're really short".
Don't even get me started on pant and sleeve lenghts. Others can shorten them. We cannot add fabric to them to make them fit.
Posted by Susan47 on September 13, 2004, at 14:04:18
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Susan47, posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 12:09:30
You're right. I struggled with short pants for years and was so peed off at it. Are you slim? Because that's another bugaboo of mine. I shouldn't be a size four, but those short little numbers are the only ones they make that are slim enough for me to fit into; and the GD things are all too short because some idiot has it in his mind that slim = short. Slim + tall also equals normal. I don't have hips out to { } here but every clothing manufacturer seems to think I should. It's so so frustrating.
Pfffft. Thanks for hearing out my rant! BUT DON'T stoop try and catch yourself doing that and be proud and tall. Stooping could lead to some bad back and neck problems, don't do that to yourself. Can you start a tall girl support group? :)
My son's over six feet and he stoops; he's also skinny and when I look at him I feel very sad for his stoop. It makes him look unsure of himself, although I don't think he necessarily feels that.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2004, at 20:03:37
In reply to Physical attraction and body type, posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 19:33:35
Well silly me I'm 5'9, not 5'7...
I am a fan of Levi's as they make em extra long, and I like pants that are long and flared so ya (actually or nearly) walk on the heels. That style seems to be popular (in NZ) at the mo, so there is no problem getting long pants. Though, I am not really all that tall in the grand scheme of things I realise... My pet peeve is pants that are half way between long and short. 3/4 pants. Long shorts. Short longs. They seem fairly popular too (regretably). Luckily I'm not much into heels, I'm quite gender neutral in my dress style. Fond of Jeans and Doc Martins (10 ups steel caps) and long sleeve tee shirts.
I know that transference is not (in particular) supposed to be a sexual thing, but I guess that for me it kind of is. Not that my father abused me in that way, but then most of the father figure types I had (while he was absent) did. I just find that transference is facilitated by height (which sounds really strange, so I was kind of wondering whether others could relate). I do take the point though, that transference can add inches, especially as they are sitting down most of the time!
Maybe it is because I always felt big and oversized and clumsy as a kid. It is nice to meet people taller and more solid than me.
I guess I just wondered because I have always been told in my case that transference is not a good thing. Probably because nobody wants to help me work through it. I am sick of the slack service here. I am sick of not getting treatment. I think I am going to start a rave thread now... Thanks for all your responses :-) I am human after all. Indeed.
Posted by Wildflower on September 14, 2004, at 10:01:12
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Wildflower, posted by Susan47 on September 13, 2004, at 14:04:18
> Are you slim?
I'm fairly slim but not stick-like. My problem is with the waist of pants. The butt and thighs are a little tight but the waist is too big.
> Slim + tall also equals normal.
Not fot many clothing manufacturers. We should start a tall clothing company. There are stores around me called *Tall Girl* and the clothes are long but they're made for plus sized women. <sigh>
> Can you start a tall girl support group? :)
That would be a great idea!
Posted by karaS on September 14, 2004, at 23:46:56
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 11:24:37
I wonder about those studies. I'm 5'2 +1/2 " and I prefer short men and I am still single past age 42. (But then I've never really fit in anywhere anyway.)
It's interesting to hear about what it's like being a tall woman from all of you. If it's any consolation, you have all the advantages in the job market!
Kara
Posted by karaS on September 14, 2004, at 23:50:04
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by Wildflower on September 13, 2004, at 11:24:37
Also, I wonder how those involved with that study would explain why supermodels are considered the paradigm of beauty in our culture and why the biggest status symbol for a male is to have a tall supermodel on his arm!!
Posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2004, at 17:26:25
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by karaS on September 14, 2004, at 23:50:04
> Also, I wonder how those involved with that study would explain why supermodels are considered the paradigm of beauty in our culture and why the biggest status symbol for a male is to have a tall supermodel on his arm!!
I remember someone saying in psych that women are supposed to like status and power etc in men (good security), and men are supposed to like youth with many child bearing years ahead of them. I am sure that there are exceptions but you do indeed see crusty old ugly rich guys with stunning young leggy supermodels etc a fair bit. (Apologies for the stereotyping)
I also heard (no idea where) that when they tried to sell Barbie in China it wouldn't sell until they made it with a flatter chest, shorter legs, black hair and yellowish.
Supermodels (to me) look like oversized people before puberty. I find that a bit scairey. Maybe (stereotyes again) it is because there is a tendancy for guys in the fashion industry to be gay??? - I mean in the sense that they don't much go in for the curvy look...
Posted by karaS on September 15, 2004, at 23:05:39
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2004, at 17:26:25
> > Also, I wonder how those involved with that study would explain why supermodels are considered the paradigm of beauty in our culture and why the biggest status symbol for a male is to have a tall supermodel on his arm!!
>
> I remember someone saying in psych that women are supposed to like status and power etc in men (good security), and men are supposed to like youth with many child bearing years ahead of them. I am sure that there are exceptions but you do indeed see crusty old ugly rich guys with stunning young leggy supermodels etc a fair bit. (Apologies for the stereotyping)I think that's dead on for so many people. Also, I would just add money in with the power and status in terms of what a lot of women want in men.
> I also heard (no idea where) that when they tried to sell Barbie in China it wouldn't sell until they made it with a flatter chest, shorter legs, black hair and yellowish.Good for them!
> Supermodels (to me) look like oversized people before puberty. I find that a bit scairey. Maybe (stereotyes again) it is because there is a tendancy for guys in the fashion industry to be gay??? - I mean in the sense that they don't much go in for the curvy look...Yes but the rest of the society is buying it and the straight men are seeking out those supermodels so I don't think that can fully explain it.
Posted by octopusprime on September 16, 2004, at 1:12:39
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Susan47, posted by Wildflower on September 14, 2004, at 10:01:12
wildflower:
like you i am 5'11". finding clothes to wear sucks!
i am all muscle in the arms and legs. i don't have big hips or butt. i can't find pants that fit, ever!!!! everything that fits in the thighs doesn't fit in the hips, butt, and waist ...
the only solution i have found is to wear skirts. this is pretty good, except when i have to pull cable or build furniture at work. (since i'm a writer, you'd think it wouldn't happen often, but think again ...)
so i'm tall, with a loud voice, in a male-dominated industry, and i'm built like a football player. hell yeah i like tall men. but so many men are intimidated by me. :(
most of the men that i have dated are/were about 6' ... which is nice. i can go down to about 5'9" but not any shorter. i had a male roommate once that was 5'5" or so and i just couldn't ever take him seriously. i also had at least sixty pounds on him, and a lot of that was muscle. :)
anyway i don't know if this is gender imprinting but i would like a man to be my size or bigger. but i also want somebody creative and smart with a big heart (no meathead jocks need apply!). they should also have cool friends, be able to cook, give excellent massages, go away when told, and come back when told. oh yeah and buy me beer.
ps while i'm dreaming i'd like that pony. :)
Posted by Wildflower on September 16, 2004, at 11:53:09
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » alexandra_k, posted by karaS on September 15, 2004, at 23:05:39
> see crusty old ugly rich guys with stunning young leggy supermodels
Easy explanation. The women seek security, money and power and the men need to stroke their ego a bit by having arm candy. In the world that these men play in, it's all about who has the hottest, best car, girl (you name it). Another explaination is the woman tends to makeup for something he's lacking... He may feel better about his own looks if he has a good looking women by his side.
> The rest of the society is buying it and the straight men are seeking out those supermodels so I don't think that can fully explain it.
Let me try... Most men do indeed seek out supermodel-type women due to the posters they had posted in their wall growing up but eventually they mature and find that insides matter most. The stereotypical tall dream girl probably has only been known for her looks so once the men start going for the insides, that supermodel is now out of the running. Not that she cannot be smart too but these girls are not used to going the extra mile to impress men. It always came easy to them without ever having to lift a finger. The rest of us may leave a cute little note for him or cook an amazing dinner...
You'd be surprised to find out that many (jealous) men dream about supermodels but could never date them. Men worry that the girl will stray or will be an easy target for getting hit on. Their own insecurities keep them away.
We can't forget the prom queen scenario either. It's always those women who are tall and beautiful that cannot get a date because men think she's just HAS to be taken. They don't waste their time so they don't get shot down.
If you can't tell, I'm very passionate about this topic. And no, I'm not a supermodel. I apologize to the men here if I offended anyone. Not all men are bad...just the ones I seem to meet. ;-)
One more thing...I think I'm going to be Barbi for Halloween...LOL
Posted by Susan47 on September 16, 2004, at 19:36:49
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by Wildflower on September 16, 2004, at 11:53:09
The rest of us might just have a brain. Or not ... ew, I'm just talking about me, nobody else. Just me 'cause that's all I know :)
Posted by Susan47 on September 16, 2004, at 19:37:25
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Wildflower, posted by Susan47 on September 16, 2004, at 19:36:49
Posted by Wildflower on September 17, 2004, at 8:34:15
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height » Wildflower, posted by Susan47 on September 16, 2004, at 19:36:49
> The rest of us might just have a brain.
I'm sure that there are plenty of us that do have brains but the stereotype is often hard to shake. It's funny to see people's reaction when I tell them that I went back for my MBA and have a professional job. They naturally assume that I'm either a secretary, bartender, or work in the mall. Probably doesn't help my cause being blonde either.
Posted by Camille Dumont on September 19, 2004, at 11:07:50
In reply to Re: Physical attraction and height, posted by Wildflower on September 17, 2004, at 8:34:15
Short and small is also a pain in the butt. I'm a hair under 5 feet one inch and around 110 pounds.
When I was young people would always assume that I was about 4 or 5 years younger than I was which was immensely frustrating because I would always end up being treated like a younger kid.
Now people still assume that I'm much younger and even at 26 I STILL get carded in bars. The only advantage I guess in the workplace is that you "stand out" more ... plus I keep my hair very bright red so people remember me more ... which is good because I work for the government and networking is really important.
On the one side you get the "little genius" type stereotype whereas people tend to expect me to be some sort of genius ... but at the same time, its hard to be taken seriously when you're shorter. Yes people may think highly of your brain but its hard to have any kind of authority over them unless you take the time to cripple them intellectually.
But when it come sto clothes its HORRIBLE. As time goes by (even more true in more expensive stores) the sizes are changing ... that is a size 3 is larger than it was 10 years ago and in expensive stores a size 3 is like a size 5 or 6 in a normal store. I mean sure I can shorten pant legs and what not but the waists are just too darn big. I can't buy skirts ... they're always too wide for me and theyre isn't much you can do when its too wide. Also, not all lines will have sizes 1/2 or even 3. For many clothes it starts at 5 and that just too huge for me.
Oh to be 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier ... it would be heaven I think.
The only good side I guess is when it comes go men .. I think its easy for them to become protective of shorter women and maybe it makes them more comfortable or something. Despite being totally different from teh "supermodel" type, I,ve never had much problem in that area.
And for the whole "flat-skinny-no-curves" models, I just think its because designers are plain lazy. Its easier to make clothes that will fit well on someone flat like a board than on someone that actually has curves and shapes.
This is the end of the thread.
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