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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 17:49:44
In reply to Re: I'll try » Racer, posted by gabbix2 on March 6, 2004, at 16:23:13
> You felt she might have ulterior motives because of her previous attack on you
> You did not say you felt attacked you said that she attacked you. That's why I'm speaking up.Actually, I think that I said I felt as if I were being ambushed. I don't think I said that Elle ambushed me, just that I felt that way. If I'm wrong about that, if what you read was that she ambushed me rather than that I felt ambushed, I guess I didn't do a very good job of it, did I? Aren't you glad you can express yourself more effectively than that?
> Critical reasoning doesn't begin and end with politics.
No, it doesn't. That doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to politics. It only means that it it is not limited to the social or political realm.
Posted by gabbix2 on March 6, 2004, at 18:12:16
In reply to Re: I'll try » gabbix2, posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 17:49:44
> Actually, I think that I said I felt as if I were being ambushed. I don't think I said that Elle ambushed me, just that I felt that way.>
>> My dear, whether you posted because you truly believe in the man or simply wanted a chance to attack me again,
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 18:39:34
In reply to Re: I'll try » Racer, posted by gabbix2 on March 6, 2004, at 18:12:16
My mind and heart have always been with the people, the land, water, air and the animals. I love nature and hope to perserve it while I am alive.
I am a radical....left wing all the way. It's hard to find others now who really have the same bent. I love the freedoms that we celebrate in this country but....you don't have the same freedoms if you are: a person of color, a woman, poor, gay, from the Middle East......there are so many ways we can be disqualified from all these wonderful freedoms.
I am sad that a womans right to choose is being threatened.
I am sad that my environment is being threatened by a nuclear power plant five miles away.
I am sad that Judges that are right wing are being choosen for our courts.
I am sad that we choose to kill people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I am sad that the President uses the 9/11 disaster to promote his run for the next election.
I want to be happy. I want to be uplifted by my life and the political environment.
I hope and pray that we see a new day.
I would dearly love to have Ralph Nader as president but I know that will never happen. So I will vote for the next best thing Kerry in 2004.
Posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 19:01:51
In reply to I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 18:39:34
You wanna know what's funny? I am not at all radical. In fact, I think of myself as being pretty conservative on most issues, and generally as a Pragmatist in the election booth. What I see happening with this administration looks like right wing radicalism.
Thanks for a very poetic post.
Posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 19:02:42
In reply to Re: I'll try » Racer, posted by gabbix2 on March 6, 2004, at 18:12:16
Posted by fayeroe on March 6, 2004, at 19:46:01
In reply to I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 18:39:34
****I feel that we are placed here as stewards......the earth is on loan to us. I have to be as good as I can to it while I am living here. Every living creature is dear to me because we all have a purpose here. It pains me deeply to see clear cuts, mountain-top coal mining, mining on the reservations, old-growth lumber harvesting, wasting of natural resources, pollution of the oceans and national treasures "give aways" to the rich. Until I draw my last breath, I hope to be worthy of living here and taking care of Mother Earth. And I'll fight for that right! If all I can do is hope to enlighten someone, then that is what I will try to do.
Posted by jay on March 6, 2004, at 21:18:56
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Racer, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 2:45:14
Bob, can we not say we support the people on here, but not George W. Bush?
Jay
Posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 22:06:58
In reply to Re: I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by fayeroe on March 6, 2004, at 19:46:01
Posted by Stryker88 on March 6, 2004, at 23:45:58
In reply to Re: I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by fayeroe on March 6, 2004, at 19:46:01
Well I agree with everyone's environmental views and opinions. President Bush past a few laws and took pressure of corporations and companies who are a hazard to the air, ground, and water. If you tell companies that it is up to them to be responsible to the environment and the government is not going to get involved, like W did, then my doubts are that any company is going to be any more responsible. If a corporation or air polluting factory or outlet is taking all measures to abide by envirmental laws then we should give them a tax break. We cannot give the ones who break the laws credit for being destructive.
Posted by Stryker88 on March 6, 2004, at 23:49:58
In reply to Re: I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by fayeroe on March 6, 2004, at 19:46:01
Is anyone aware that Bush if trying to make sure that if Condelezza Rice, the defense secretary, is summoned to appear in court he wants her to not be underoath at all. If she gives testimony regarding the lies told about WMD's in Iraq or about the CIA leak off the operative in the Middle East, Bush says she does not have to be underoath and basically she can lie as much as she wants to according to Bush. THIS IS AN OUTRAGEOUS POSITION BY W, EVERY OTHER AMERICAN CITIZEN HAS TO BE UNDEROATH, WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS
Posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 23:54:33
In reply to Re: good posts, environmental opinions agreed, posted by Stryker88 on March 6, 2004, at 23:45:58
Isn't that "anarchy?" OK, maybe not, but it's about responsibility. It has to start somewhere, otherwise no one wants it. So, for me, I try to be responsible in my own life. I don't shop at big chains, I preferencially buy things like yarn from local retailers even if they have to order it for me, or if I have to buy something a little different than I wanted. I drive a fuel efficient little car, and keep it in the best repair I can afford to so that it stays as clean as it can. I contribute in the ways I can, like donating blood or doing volunteer work when I can. I always show up for jury duty, and I vote in every election. It's not much, but it's about my limit right now.
And there are a couple of new books out there right now about corporate social responsibility. Two of them are about how much MORE profitable some companies have become since beginning socially conscious programs. Wow, what a thought, huh?
Thank you for starting this thread, despite a little heat.
Posted by Stryker88 on March 7, 2004, at 1:34:59
In reply to What's it called when you ask corps to be good? » Stryker88, posted by Racer on March 6, 2004, at 23:54:33
BUSH'S PLAN IS TO TAKE AWAY OVERTIME PAY FOR 2 MILLION AMERICANS, NOW WHAT KIND OF A PRESIDENT IS THAT, DOES HE CARE ABOUT THE KIDS OF THESE EMPLOYEES WHO MAY NOT GET ENOUGH FOOD, AND HOW DOES HE THINK THIS IS GOING TO HELP THE ECONOMY
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 17:46:24
In reply to Re: Bush regarding Condelezza Rice, posted by Stryker88 on March 6, 2004, at 23:49:58
> he's screwed up our health care system.
>
> Susan J> I do think he is dishonest, I do think he is greedy to the point of rapaciousness, I do think he is a cruel person, and I do think he insults the American People by his words and deeds.
>
> I'll try to learn from this, but please remember: it's really hard for an old dog to learn new tricks!
>
> Racer> basically she can lie as much as she wants to according to Bush.
>
> Stryker88I realize this is kind of new, but the goal of this site is support and education. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
I think that if political figures are put down, then posters who support them may also feel put down. So to keep posters from feeling put down, it may be necessary not to put down political figures. To post as if they were posters themselves.
As usual, it tends to be more civil to use I-statements. I thought Fayeroe and Jai demonstrated that well:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040305/msgs/321245.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040305/msgs/321277.html> if you're going to pontificate about your politics...
>
> gabbix2So, keeping that, plus the usual civility guidelines, in mind, could you all please rephrase what I quoted above?
> my original post ... was intended to be supportive of the poster who started this thread. "Hey, you! We share some viewpoints! We're not alone! We can all hang together, or we shall certainly hang separately.
>
> Racer> can we not say we support the people on here, but not George W. Bush?
>
> JayIt's great to support someone else, but as with non-political topics, please try to find ways to do that that don't involve accusing or putting down a third party.
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged. Saying you disagree with or don't support someone isn't accusing or putting them down.
I hate to limit freedom of speech, but I think sometimes it's for the better. Thanks for your patience,
Bob
Posted by gabbix2 on March 7, 2004, at 18:14:47
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Susan J » Racer » gabbi » Stryker88, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 17:46:24
Instead of saying "if you are going to pontificate about your politics"
I should have said "If you are going to speak openly and boldly about your political opinions"
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 8:09:26
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Susan J » Racer » gabbi » Stryker88, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 17:46:24
Thanks Dr. Bob, I worked long and hard on that post. I used the rules that Dinah gave us and labored over it till it was really my heart and head speaking and not my anger and the desire to get mad. Anger is such a seductive force...I can get just as angry as anyone else maybe even more.
I am an old radical...I cut my teeth on discussions around the dinner table with my sisters and dad. Dad was the conservative and we were the radicals. He and I would lock horns. Some times I would end up in tears....he would always support me and badger me. I began to see holes in his logic and would pick away at these. He was very encouraging. We debated everything.
But really I didn't change till I did the EMDR and I got to see myself as something other than a victim. I got a glimps of my personal liberation emotionally. So I am not totally free but my inner sight is definately expanded. I can now learn how to talk a new way that will include people. I still get real upset and have my moments of unbeliveable outrage but I back away now.
I take another look.
ponder.
I just don't see the other person as the evil person I once would have thought. Not that there isn't evil in the world I do believe that. But I am not so stuck in my vision, my ideas, my thoughts...I can now listen to others. We can disagree but I am not going to convice the other person to agree with me.
Maybe there is a new place we can come to, we can create together. I feel more like a co-creator in my life.
thanks for listening, I'd love some response.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 10:30:14
In reply to I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 18:39:34
> My mind and heart have always been with the people, the land, water, air and the animals. I love nature and hope to perserve it while I am alive.
Mine too. I consider that a very conservative position. What can be more conservative than to admit our duty to our descendents.
> I am a radical....left wing all the way. It's hard to find others now who really have the same bent. I love the freedoms that we celebrate in this country but....you don't have the same freedoms if you are: a person of color, a woman, poor, gay, from the Middle East......there are so many ways we can be disqualified from all these wonderful freedoms.
It's a shame that a person of color, the poor, gays, and those from the Middle East are sometimes treated without the respect that our constitution guarantees them. I'm not sure that's a problem of our country so much as a problem of hearts and minds of people. (I just refuse to include women in there. I've always been treated with respect, and no has attempted to repress me because of my gender.) But I think if you look around the world, you might find that people from the Middle East and people of color and people of differing religions, and women, and gays enjoy a lot more freedoms here than they would elsewhere.
> I am sad that my environment is being threatened by a nuclear power plant five miles away.
Although nuclear plants are generally cleaner alternatives than coal based ones. And those of on computers are probably not averse to electricity.
> I am sad that Judges that are right wing are being choosen for our courts.
I am happy that the constitutional protection between the branches of government is being shored up, and that legislation is being left to the... legislature.
> I am sad that we choose to kill people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I am sad that a group of people decided to come to our country and kill thousands of innocent people on their way to work. I'm sad that the regime of Afghanistan provided refuge for those people, while not allowing their women to get an education or receive adequate healthcare. I am sad that the people of Afghanistan have lived through decades of war that started way before we got there. I'm glad my brother is on his way to Afghanistan to help with the rebuilding of a long insufficient infrastructure. I'm happy that he met someone who reassured him that the Afghan people had a generally positive attitude towards the military working on rebuilding that infrastructure. I hope for a peaceful and prosperous future for the people of that country.
I'm sad that the leadership of Iraq chose to place their people in harms way by not living up to the conditions of the peace agreement put in place at the end of the war in which they invaded their neighbor. I feel very sorry for the people of Iraq who had to live under years and years of an oppressive regime. I hope that women and men of that country learn to live without fear, and I hope that they complain about their government or even the U.S. every day, if only because they *can* without fear of reprisal.
> I am sad that the President uses the 9/11 disaster to promote his run for the next election.
I'm sad that there was a 9/11 mass murder. (I always tend to think of disasters as being earthquakes, mudslides, fires, etc.)
> I want to be happy. I want to be uplifted by my life and the political environment.
Yeah, me too.
> I hope and pray that we see a new day.Definitely.
> I would dearly love to have Ralph Nader as president but I know that will never happen. So I will vote for the next best thing Kerry in 2004.I'm guessing I'll abstain. I could change my mind.
Posted by bookgurl99 on March 8, 2004, at 20:41:55
In reply to ABB Anybody But Bush, posted by Stryker88 on March 4, 2004, at 15:45:58
I totally agree -- John Kerry. :D
. . . and I have been ticked off to see the way George Bush has tried to manipulate people using images of 9-11. He's run that method into the ground. I hate the ad that states that he's 'brave' and a 'leader,' in 'times of change.' Times are always changing, George. I'm not buying it.
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 23:01:16
In reply to Re: I am impressed, what articulate posts, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 10:30:14
> Mine too. I consider that a very conservative position. What can be more conservative than to admit our duty to our descendents.
*In conservative do mean to conserve?
>(I just refuse to include women in there. I've always been treated with respect, and no has attempted to repress me because of my gender.)
**what about Martha Stewart?But I think if you look around the world, you might find that people from the Middle East and people of color and people of differing religions, and women, and gays enjoy a lot more freedoms here than they would elsewhere.
*What about the jails in Cuba?
> Although nuclear plants are generally cleaner alternatives than coal based ones.
*Why does the frisky atom have a half life of 100,000 years if it's so safe?
* I am still sad that the President uses the 9/11 disaster to promote his run for the next election.
Let's agree to disagree, Peace?
You have enough on your plate right now.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 23:33:11
In reply to Re:Please rephrase that. Sorry, posted by gabbix2 on March 7, 2004, at 18:14:47
Posted by Dinah on March 9, 2004, at 1:00:32
In reply to Let's agree to disagree, Peace?, posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 23:01:16
Is my very favorite hobby. I can't do it often enough. :)
Posted by EscherDementian on March 10, 2004, at 5:48:24
In reply to Re: ABB Anybody But Bush » Jai Narayan, posted by Racer on March 4, 2004, at 20:45:16
h'Ray, Racer.... me too, & *deep bow to you*
Just an idea here~
check out TrueMajority.org (i think that's it)It's Ben from Ben&Jerry's 'soul-push'.
What do you think?
(& i LOVED your take/analogy on 'body memories', even though it was 'on a different track')
Mobius,
Escher
Posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2004, at 6:00:29
In reply to Re: ABB Anybody But Bush » Racer, posted by EscherDementian on March 10, 2004, at 5:48:24
> h'Ray, Racer.... me too, & *deep bow to you*
>
> Just an idea here~
> check out TrueMajority.org (i think that's it)
>
> It's Ben from Ben&Jerry's 'soul-push'.
>
> What do you think?
>
> (& i LOVED your take/analogy on 'body memories', even though it was 'on a different track')
>
> Mobius,
> Eschersoulmates, check out and join Moveon.org as well as TrueMajority........CommonCause is excellent also....The internet has put a completely new spin on politics. We've effected some changes that were truly mind-blowing. Sent over 300,000
e.mails to Congress concerning the FCC letting the media conglomerates own huge chunks of the airwaves. It works!!
Posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2004, at 6:09:07
In reply to Re: ABB Anybody But Bush » Racer, posted by EscherDementian on March 10, 2004, at 5:48:24
I forgot to mention that if you want to support environmental issues and keep up with what this administration is trying to slip by on Friday afternoons.......join Care2. They send out alerts on all issues environmental.........you can send e.mails, faxes, letters, make phone calls, etc. It is very effective. They also address regional issues such as animal abuse that you can respond to. The majority of the time, we make a difference. The governor of New Jersey has decided to end the bear hunts because he got more correspondence concerning that than any other issue he's dealt with since he took office. The Maryland governor has proposed a bear hunt (bear population 300-400) with crossbows, bows and arrows, muskets, etc. A more cruel way to die, I can't imagine at the hands of a hunter....Enough! I'll stop.....Pat
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 10, 2004, at 9:56:15
In reply to Environmental issues with Bush and others~~~ » EscherDementian, posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2004, at 6:09:07
A very big thank you for doing the work to help the bears and other animals.
politically have you seen
Democracynow!
It's the only place I get my political news....
my best to you all I must run to work.
Posted by PoohBear on March 12, 2004, at 11:50:27
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Racer, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 2:45:14
> > George W. Bush is a greedy sack of excrement, a shameless liar, and a cruel man.
>
> > I recommend that you ... maybe take a critical reasoning class for fun.
>
> I'd like to ask that people not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down -- either directly or because they support George W. Bush. Keeping that in mind, could you please rephrase the above? Elle, I've seen your request, but I'd like to make this one exception.
>
> If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Posting something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
I have found this thread to be extremely offensive. It really is too bad that 'board threads can be derailed into politics.I'm a conservative and feel that my reasons for being so are just as valid as those who have vocally denounced our President. I also feel that anything I might say to support GWB or my views would be belittled or put down based on what I've read here.
Tony
This is the end of the thread.
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