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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by syringachalet on February 11, 2004, at 11:24:23
In reply to Re: skin picking, posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 11, 2004, at 1:42:46
I have at times in my life skin ticked. Large sores were left and took a long time to heal.
I have read and thought about this alot over the years and I think people who skin pick are either frustrated with guilt or angry and maybe a whole lot of denile. I have learned that like cutters, the physical release of chemicals in the brain from the physical pain is both psychologically calming and validates that they have been punished and no longer guilty. It also validates they are still alive when their mental illness often leaves them existing in a numbed mental state..feeling nothing. I learned early in life you will be punished if you hurt others so turning the anger inward on yourself seems to be a better way of cpoing..at least on the surface. Freud said anger turned inward is depression...
As for the denile issue, nature has its own way of 'pulling a veil' over those things that we are not yet ready or willing to face at the present. To have to face them when the body and/or mind is seriously compromised could be devistating and sometimes fatal. JMHO
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on February 11, 2004, at 11:55:38
In reply to skin picking, posted by aussie on February 10, 2004, at 1:34:41
> Any one do this?
> I've got bald patches that I cover up.
> I don't want to go to bed and I don'tknow why.
-----------I never used to, but about a year ago I started tearing off little strips of dead skin from my thumb cuticles, which has progressed to me reshaping the entire right side of my right thumbnail and underlying nail bed. I want to leave it alone, but it's so mindless. I just find myself automatically doing it when I'm bored. I don't really enjoy any pain it brings, nor do I feel compulsive about anything else in my life. There's just something oddly relaxing about wedging a fingernail corner under a small fold of skin. It's a pattern my brain has fallen into for some reason, and the process just seems to amplify itself. The only relief is to cut my nails really short, so there are no protrusions to pick with, but I'm lax about even doing that (self-maintainance is such a job). Fortunately, few people seem to study my thumbnails closely in public.
Posted by noa on February 11, 2004, at 13:48:04
In reply to Re: skin picking » aussie, posted by Kath on February 10, 2004, at 9:54:58
My scalp scratching predates being on meds, but since being on meds, my skin picking/scalp picking has been pretty bad. I believe there is a relationship but can't find much informatio on it.
BTW, there is a yahoo group called Pickaderms on this subject. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pickaderms/
Posted by Aussie on February 12, 2004, at 0:28:20
In reply to Re: skin picking, posted by noa on February 11, 2004, at 13:48:04
Hey! Me too,on both accounts.
I used to scratch a bit before meds, but this is WAY different.I just wantto go off all my drugs. I won't,don't worry, I'm too bloody scared to because of all the 'withdrawal' affects I've been reading that my pdoctor never mentioned.
Thanks for the info and the support everyone.
> My scalp scratching predates being on meds, but since being on meds, my skin picking/scalp picking has been pretty bad. I believe there is a relationship but can't find much informatio on it.
>
> BTW, there is a yahoo group called Pickaderms on this subject. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pickaderms/
Posted by Camille Dumont on February 13, 2004, at 9:48:30
In reply to skin picking, posted by aussie on February 10, 2004, at 1:34:41
I've been skin picking for years.
It started by picking at the dead skin on the soles of my feet and then it became worse and worse ... to the point that walking to go to work was nearly impossible.
I'm still doing it but, in my opinion, to a lesser extent. I've been struggling to at least keep it to one foot and leave the other clear. I don't go as deep either ... so blood is rarely involved.
I find that I'm most likely to do it while watching tv ... so I try to do something else at the same time like surfing the net and such. I also revert to it if I'm super stressed.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 13, 2004, at 21:31:16
In reply to Re: skin picking, posted by Camille Dumont on February 13, 2004, at 9:48:30
*****Trigger*****
I thought I posted here a few days ago, but it seems I didn't. That's much the way my life is going... I don't know what I've done or not.
I do lots of SI. Picking skin is a big one though. I will do it just about any time I don't have shoes on, and on other parts of my body whenever they're accessible.
I have problems with cutting, I dig at my arms with tweezers.
For me, it started when I was about 8. I was walking home from school, and I slid down a hill beside a building made of concrete blocks. the back of my hand slid against the building and abraded the skin off my nuckles. After that, whenever I was angry, I would punch things over and over until I was bleeding.
At home, I wasn't allowed to get angry at anyone, and was punished when I did. Punishment in my family was quite often severe. It never mattered who did the initial thing that caused the anger, and in most cases, the ones who were visibly angry where the ones who were punished.
Being a multiple (MPD) it was easier to get through physical pain than emotional pain. I would get my anger out by hurting myself. Thinking back, the punishment that I gave myself, scars and bleeding, etc. werent't much less than the punishment I would have gotten from my parents.
I still hurt myself alot. It's a bad problem. I don't know how to make it go away. People tell me to quit because it's addictive. I've been doing it for over 30 years, and I don't have the option of quitting before I get addicted. I'm there already.
I would like to say that if you're picking, don't go further. Promise yourself that you won't do anything more. Promise yourself that you won't cut. Don't use a foreign object to injure yourself.
Sooner or later, if you are picking at your feet, the pain might not be as bad when you are trying to walk. Resist the urge to pick more.
I am fighting to try to see myself as valuable as other people see me. I am trying to convince myself that when I hurt my body, I am hurting all of the children, teens and adults who share my mind.
Yesterday, I hurt my hand. Today, for an hour or two, I actually felt the injury. It hurt like hell, and then the pain went away again. I can only guess that one of my alters was sharing it just to let me know how much damage I really did. In the center of my hand, I have a small hole, maybe 1/8 of an inch in diameter, and the beginning of a bruise is showing that is 1 1/2 - 2 inches in diameter. Right now, I don't feel it except for tightness in my fingers. When I can feel it, I feel it even on the back of my hand.
The reason that I mention this is because often people who self-injure can dissociate. They don't feel 'all' of the pain that they are actually causing. Eventually, they might do things like I do, and cause more damage than they expect or realize. Sooner or later, wounds become infected, scars show up where you don't really want them to. You might find that you can't do some things that were once important, such as donating blood. The nurses at the donation centers get kind of curious when they see scars and wounds on your arms.
I guess I'm saying that I'm here, and really don't want people following. I'm trying to get out of it, and it's REALLY REALLY hard.
In the words of Mr. Sauvage, in Johny English, "Take my advice, Don't go there". It's so hard to get back.
Dee.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 13, 2004, at 22:23:06
In reply to Re: skin picking ***** Trigger, SI *****, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 13, 2004, at 21:31:16
I know exactly what you are going through. I do those same things and more. A question if you don't mind, You don't have to answer, When you SI, what do you feel?
For me, there are 3 different phases:
skin-picking-it gets started and I get obsessive and can't stop.
cutting- the scary one for me. When I do it, I just feel numb. Like filing papers or something. I look at the injury and just don't feel anything about it one way or the other.
knuckle bashing- this one comes only out of rage or extreme anxiety.I would still contend that there is a genetic predisposition to this. It would be nice to have a med that works for it someday..
I wish you the best-
SDJ
Posted by noa on February 14, 2004, at 16:20:49
In reply to Re: skin picking ***** Trigger, SI ***** » deirdrehbrt, posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 13, 2004, at 22:23:06
I think there is a genetic predisposition too. Two of my siblings scratch scalps like me.
My skin picking is far worse on meds than it was before, I think.
But I don't seem to have the SI aspect of it. It feels more tic-like, like an action that has to happen and I can only suppress it for a certain amount of time. Or like OCD. Someone mentioned the thing about anything that doesn't feel smooth--that seems apt in my experience, too.
I fight with myself all the time to keep my hands off my face and head. Especially my face.
I have to covery it up with makeup all the time. I know I make the acne worse by picking at it.
The acne is worsened by meds, too, btw.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 14, 2004, at 20:38:50
In reply to Re: skin picking » socialdeviantjeff, posted by noa on February 14, 2004, at 16:20:49
I think that one of the best uses of makeup is to help keep ones' hands off of ones' face. There seems to be a mechanism that can be interrupted that lets you think "If I touch my face, I'll have to fix my makeup". You don't have the same chance to stop it when you don't have to worry about makeup. Then, you just scratch, pick, or anything else. I vote for makeup.
Dee.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 15, 2004, at 1:37:01
In reply to Re: skin picking ***** Trigger, SI *****, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 13, 2004, at 21:31:16
Hi deirdrehbrt,
I would like to point out a few of the similarities between our SI stories. If you aren't feeling well or are feeling easily triggered, don't read this.
The similarties I notice between our stories:1. Punishments given by parents
2. SI beginning at young age
3. Similar objects usedThe first time I remember SI-ing was around third grade. My parents tell me it started long before that, about age four or five. I remember being upset over being punished (I feel that my parents viewed nearly everything as cause for punishment). When I was little it started with running my fingernails down my cheeks. When my parents discovered me doing this, I would get punished even more. That seems illogical to me.
The SI-ing went away for a while and returned when I entered highschool, although not in the form of cutting. More like hitting myself, and things of that nature. Then after I entered college, it got worse, and went to cutting with objects. You mentioned tweezers. The very first object I used to cut with was a sharp tweezer. I only used one once, and haven't used it again since. Now, I have other "objects."Perhaps you don't view the similarities as strikingly as I do. That could be because I am not elaborating much due to the fact that I am not sure how much I am allowed to divulge on these boards in regard to this subject. I'd really like to know what you think about this if you are up to talking about it.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on February 15, 2004, at 1:40:23
In reply to Similarities *Trigger, SI * don't read if not well » deirdrehbrt, posted by Elle2021 on February 15, 2004, at 1:37:01
I once read some info. on self-injuring and it said that a possible reason people SI is because they are taking the place of a person that used to abuse them in an effort to continue "punishing" themselves. What do you guys think about this?
Elle
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2004, at 3:04:56
In reply to Theory on SI, posted by Elle2021 on February 15, 2004, at 1:40:23
I think there are so many reasons for SI. Even for me there are so many reasons. I wish I understood it. For me, it just seems soothing when I'm so agitated my skin feels like it's on fire, or I'm so angry my head feels like it's going to explode. It releases tension. At least, that's the main reason. Other times there are other reasons.
And my father swatted me lightly on my rear maybe three times in my life, startling more than hurting me. And my mother would get scary out of control sometimes, but I can probably count them on one hand - at most two hands. And the results were never severe. So my parents didn't model this for me.
And while I always have been obsessed with being a good girl, I can't say my parents discouraged me from discharging my anger either. They both emoted all over anything in their way, and didn't mind if I emoted too, except maybe at the dinner table. They generally regarded it with amusement.
I wonder if there isn't some instinctive drive to do it. It certainly isn't unusual with very little kids when they get frustrated. Maybe they get angry but know they're not supposed to hit their friends or parents, but they want to hit, so they hit themselves? Hopefully we teach them better ways to manage their anger.
In other words, I have no idea.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 15, 2004, at 3:23:46
In reply to Theory on SI, posted by Elle2021 on February 15, 2004, at 1:40:23
IMHO, there are a lot of diseases, especially endocrine, psychiatric and autoimmune diseases that have no clear pathology whatsoever.
I think that there has to be some sort of physical cause for SI, whether it's genetic or something else and it's hard to dispute that the enviroment is a large factor.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 15, 2004, at 13:25:10
In reply to Re: Theory on SI, posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 15, 2004, at 3:23:46
I don't know either, what might cause it. Perhaps it has something to do with discovering that an injury can dull the emotional pain that we feel.
If I am cutting, or whatever, then no-one in the world has to know what I'm really feeling. I can deal with the pain all by myself. I can let out as much or as little as I want. I can bleed or not. I can bruise myself, break valuable objects, give myself frost-bite, whatever I want. Then when I'm done, I can go to bed, and not worry about what other people might think. (I usually do SI at night).
I guess that's the big part for me. I have a hard time letting people know how bad I feel. Even when I'm sobbing and crying, there is always the part that I don't say. Maybe it's the unsaid parts that are the fuel for the SI furnace. Who knows?
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2004, at 14:04:41
In reply to Re: Theory on SI *triggering*, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 15, 2004, at 13:25:10
I suspect that might be an element of it for me too. When I know that my therapist is available (and I feel I can tell him anything), or maybe a friend who I don't mind talking to is available, I don't self injure.
But when I think that speaking my pain will bring repercussions on me, or not be helpful, I cut it instead. And you're right. Then I've dealt with the pain myself and it's no one else's concern.
Except that, being married, unless I find a reason to hide for a while, it does cause me negative repercussions. And I feel guilty around my therapist unless I tell him.
But at the *moment* those things aren't as important to me as easing the pain.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 15, 2004, at 15:58:06
In reply to Re: Theory on SI *triggering* » deirdrehbrt, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2004, at 14:04:41
One other thing that I've noticed of late is this: Whenever I find myself injured, or find that I might be, I always take a note of it, try to see if there is a way to use it on my own. I don't say "OMG! I just cut my finger!" Instead, I examine the wound, maybe wash it so I can see it better, etc. I don't, right away anyway, head off for stitches at the hospital. I may find myself impressed at how sharp something was. At least that's how things go when I'm in a mood that is prone toward SI.
I also need to say that I am very glad that I'm not alone. I thought I was just being stupid and out of control. Until a couple of years ago, I didn't know that there were lots of people who do this, and for the most part, they don't want to. So, other than the wonderful collection of diagnoses, I'm not nuts! :-)
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 11:07:30
In reply to Re: Theory on SI *triggering*, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 15, 2004, at 15:58:06
My own theory is that many self injurers are the good kids who don't like to cause a stir, and hold their pain and anger inside.
So my question is this. If you self injure, were you the sort who teachers and authority figures would say never caused a bit of trouble? A good boy or girl?
My answer would be yes.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 16, 2004, at 12:17:18
In reply to Re: A SI question, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 11:07:30
Weeellll... there goes your theory hun :) I was when I was young. I was a straight A student, who sat in the front row, never caused toruble, ect, ect.... But, in high school I caused quite a stir, underground newspapers, blowing kisses to a girl I disliked on our closed circuit TV program, causing trouble in class. I still got very good grades and was in college prep classes and the teachers loved me. But, I had a Mean Streak too.... :)
I think I SIed (haven't in maybe almost 1 year???? Since I started seeing Bubba and don't even have the urge to anymore !!! YAHOO for me!) because I had a very controlling mother. I couldn't talk back, for fear of her wrath. So, I beat myself up instead. When I left her house, I used it to express anger, as I still wasn't able to "talk back" or say, "Hey, you really hurt my feelings!" Now, I can. I've learned how. At first, I wa a bit out of control, uplifting tables and such :) but, now I can say I'm angry and be OK with just talking aobut it or going to my bedroom until things settle down.
But, I must say, when I caused trouble in high school, they never suspected it was me.... I didn't seem to be the type to do it. So, maybe your theory is still true? I was a good girl in school with good grades, ect. But, I did yhave a mean streak that finally came out. In my home environment, I had to get it out somewhere. School was the perfect place to do so, I'd say. They wouldn't beat me or kill me!
Posted by pegasus on February 16, 2004, at 14:24:58
In reply to Re: A SI question, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 11:07:30
Oh, yes, I was the quintessential good girl. Good grades, well behaved, polite. Never caused any trouble. Cleaned the house, cooked dinner, strove for peace among the family. Dated good boys, came home on time. Studied something my parents would approve of. Etc.
Yikes! And now that I'm breaking out of that a bit (slacking at work, studying a new field that mystifies my parents, turning down promotions, making friends with odd people, being a bit of an activist, talking back to my family (I told my sister to fuck off!), etc.), I haven't had as much urge to SI. Really, it's been a few weeks w/o injuries for me. Hooray for me too!
Dinah, I buy your theory, at least in my own case.
- p
Posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 16:52:56
In reply to Re: A SI question » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 16, 2004, at 12:17:18
Nawww, it doesn't blow my theory. In your case it was your mother who kept you from expressing your anger. So you still had to stuff it, it's just that you had more than one outlet.
Funny thing is that in my house, it was the culture that you could scream and yell all you wanted. Including me. I was good of course, but I was allowed to express anger. At school, of course, it was different and I was the quintessential good girl.
So it wasn't until I left my screaming yelling house and decided to create a different atmosphere in my own home that I started self injuring. I may have thought of it before, just as I had suicidal urges. But while I could yell and scream with the rest of the family I didn't act on the urges. Hmmmm.... But still, I don't want to solve my self injury problem by recreating my family of origin. Horrors!!!
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 16, 2004, at 20:25:45
In reply to Re: A SI question » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 16:52:56
Well, I guess I was on the good side. I loved talking to the teachers, and was the one always picked on or beat up for being too smart. My parents wouldn't send me to my room when I was bad, because I would just stay there reading, which is where I would have been if I hadn't gotten into trouble.
If I did something bad, it was usually because something that wasn't meant to be bad went awry.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 16, 2004, at 21:55:54
In reply to Re: A SI question, posted by Dinah on February 16, 2004, at 11:07:30
I don't think that is the reason I cut, but I definitely fit the "good girl" example you describe. However, I have to admit, that if I didn't like a teacher in school, I would ask to be transferred immediately. So, in that case, I caused a stir on several occasions.
Elle
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2004, at 22:48:10
In reply to Re: A SI question, posted by pegasus on February 16, 2004, at 14:24:58
> (I told my sister to f[*]ck off!)
Assertiveness can be good, and sorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others.
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by pegasus on February 17, 2004, at 0:10:32
In reply to Re: please be civil » pegasus, posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2004, at 22:48:10
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2004, at 23:57:06
In reply to Twice in one day! My bad! (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by pegasus on February 17, 2004, at 0:10:32
This is the end of the thread.
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