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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 22:21:14
All day long I tried to get the nerve to ask my boss/ friend/ counselor to lunch tomorrow. Granted the boundaries of our relationship are fuzzy. We've known each other over 10 years, I've seen her for counseling and gone to her meditation classes. I just started doing some work for her last year, and sometimes we see each other at social events where there are lots of other people. She will say things sometimes like, "We'll have to go (fill in the activity)", or "I'll have to take you to (fill in the destination)", like friends would, but we never end up doing it--for the most part. She did come to my new place and loan me an air purifier. She's taken me out on my birthday and graduation. Once we went out to dinner from work casually, but that was long ago.
It seemed like every time I got near doing it today she would run away. I know that sounds paranoid, but it's true. I am not entirely insensitive to energy, and it seemed like she was avoiding me. She is pretty sensitive to things too, which makes me think all the more that she was avoiding me. I'm wondering if my insecurity makes it really hard to be around me. The problem with depression is that it perpetuates all these self-abnegating patterns until nothing is clear anymore.
There was no flow and then it became too big a deal to ask her. Then to add insult to injury, as I was sitting at the typewriter she and the other employee left for dinner (they go every Thursday night, so it's not like it was something new) telling me to leave the back door open for the people that would be coming in for class. The other person has been working there a lot longer, but still I've been there almost a year and I feel hurt that we don't ever go out. I also see other clients of hers ask her to lunch from time to time, but I just haven't felt comfortable.
I sat there feeling so weird. I don't know whether to say something or not; I mean if she is feeling llike avoiding me I doubt she's going to tell me. Maybe she's not even conscious of it, but still wants to avoid me. Or maybe she's not even conscious of it and I am making the whole thing up. But I have been really needy lately and maybe she needs a break. Can I look at that as other than rejection?
I could call her tonight before she leaves to go home (she teaches a class until 10:00). I could do nothing and try to come to terms with it myself. I could wait until tomorrow and see how I feel.
But I'm ruminating over it and feeling really bad. I woke up this morning and said, "Today I'm going to ask her to lunch." Because I've been wanting to do it for awhile.
I don't want to put her on the spot, but on the other hand she has said that she likes me and considers me a friend.
Any thoughts?
Posted by stjames on August 14, 2003, at 22:58:21
In reply to Rejection: Real, imagined, or does it matter?, posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 22:21:14
Or maybe she's not even conscious of it and I am making the whole thing up. But I have been really needy lately and maybe she needs a break. Can I look at that as other than rejection?
>I would not call it rejection till you asked to do something and she said no. Otherwise it is just conjecture. People do have the right to not have others needs bumped on them & it is no way to start a friendship based on meeting your needs. Next time she mentions doing something, counter with a specific time and date.
Posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 23:18:24
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined, or does it matter?, posted by stjames on August 14, 2003, at 22:58:21
Well, I certainly try not to bump my needs onto anyone, that's why I'm considering it. I wouldn't ask her to dinner to suck her into the vortex of my bottomless need..
Posted by gabbix2 on August 14, 2003, at 23:38:59
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined, or does it matter?, posted by kara lynne on August 14, 2003, at 23:18:24
At least thats what I've always thought.
We need friends. Isn't that what the basis of any friendship is, meeting anothers need? We're social creatures.
No shame or selfishness in that as far as I can see when, as in this case the enjoyment of each others company has been clearly stated, and is genuine.
Posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 0:20:00
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined, or does it matter?, posted by stjames on August 14, 2003, at 22:58:21
Sorry Kara Lynne after re-reading your post I realized your friendship with this woman has already clearly been established over a 10 year period. All you wanted to know was how to ask her to Lunch!
I think you should trust your insticts but it in no way reflects a permanent situation. Sometimes people are just preoccupied. I know I must have appeared aloof at times, when It was absolutely nothing personal.
Just wait a week, (post *ms and see how it goes)
I always feel I'm being rejected at that time,
I see it EVERYWHERE.
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 0:53:12
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined, or does it matter? » stjames, posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 0:20:00
It *is* all over the place, isn't it?
((((gabbi))))
Posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 8:35:54
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined/ Gabbi, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 0:53:12
Another possibility would be to arrange a group thing (4 people?). That might be less intimidating for both of you. Or if there is a cafeteria where you work maybe the two of you could eat lunch there (this is less formal than going out).
How long ago was the counseling? Would you ever want to see her as a counselor again? This is the only area that seems complicated to me. Finding the line between friends and counselor/client could be tricky. You are correct to think that you shouldn't "suck her into the vortex of my bottomless need" - what a great sentance! I can truly relate!
I'm happy to hear you talk about doing something with someone else.
You Go Girl!
P.S. I think your "rejection" is imagined
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 13:34:33
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 8:35:54
Well I still see her for counseling sometimes but again, she does not now nor has she ever claimed to be a psychotherapist.
I may even talk about it in a session--then it can be in the context of talking about my neurosis anyway. But it is kind of weird, I get the feeling we can be social but only when she calls it. I know she doesn't *do* a whole lot of one on one social things though, more like what you describe with more people there. But the one thing she has done over the years is have meals with her employees, and I just started wondering why we didn't do that.
She's also said that she considers me a friend, and I don't know why she'd bother if she didn't. But maybe it's too much to expect someone to let you know when you've become too annoying to hang out with. That may be one of those things you don't actually want to hear anyway.
I guess I'll have to sit with my real or imagined rejection over the weekend.
Posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 13:51:50
In reply to Re: Rejection: Real, imagined, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 13:34:33
And here I thought you'd planned to suck me into the vortex of your bottomless need this weekend ;)
Posted by ROO on August 15, 2003, at 13:55:19
In reply to Darn., posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 13:51:50
sounds like the boundaries a little fuzzy in this
relationship....that would be confusing...
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 14:08:44
In reply to Darn., posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 13:51:50
And here I thought you'd planned to suck me into the vortex of your bottomless need this weekend ;)
Well now that you're offering...
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 14:11:37
In reply to Re: Kara lynne, posted by ROO on August 15, 2003, at 13:55:19
It is confusing. And she does encourage me to be honest and forthcoming, and to call her if I want to. I don't think she would be that soliticous (not sure if that's the word I want) with someone she truly didn't want to bother with.
Oh well, I'll see her next week so she can LIE to me some more... ; )
(ok, just about ready for this pms to be over...)
Posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 17:33:00
In reply to Re: Kara lynne, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 14:11:37
So if she isn't a therapist, but she is a counselor, what does that mean? What's the difference?
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 19:51:40
In reply to Re: Kara lynne » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 17:33:00
No formal degree, or license to practice psychotherapy.
Posted by stjames on August 15, 2003, at 20:16:02
In reply to Isn't Friendship about Meeting a need. St. James., posted by gabbix2 on August 14, 2003, at 23:38:59
> At least thats what I've always thought.
> We need friends. Isn't that what the basis of any friendship is, meeting anothers need? We're social creatures.yes, of course. Both need to bring something of value to the relationship.
Now that I reread the original post, I have a different take on it. I don't know where I got "dumping" out of this !
Posted by Tabitha on August 15, 2003, at 20:30:16
In reply to Re: Kara lynne, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 14:11:37
Remind me again, why do you want to be friends with this woman?
Posted by gabbix2 on August 15, 2003, at 21:45:07
In reply to Re: Isn't Friendship about Meeting a need. St. Jam, posted by stjames on August 15, 2003, at 20:16:02
I'm always doing that, I think I mentioned it already, on the board this month. I'll get a completely different take on something when I read it again, and sometimes feel like a prize A** for my first response.
I'm glad I don't have a problem with apologizing.
Posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 22:03:56
In reply to Re: Kara lynne » kara lynne, posted by Tabitha on August 15, 2003, at 20:30:16
I don't know if I can answer that exactly. I'm trying not to isolate, and I was hoping to plan out my time so I wouldn't start my weekend plummet. I wish I had more options, the energy to seek them and the clarity to know what they are.
I need friends, we're sort of friends, I thought I'd give it a try.
Meanwhile, I'm home isolating. I could take a walk into town but I'm feeling so shleppy. I can't wash my hair because of my ear infection and this is a record long PMS--in a record heat wave.
Going to the market was an accomplishment. It's so weird, I'll be in there and suddenly get overwhelmed and want to leave in the middle of shopping. I'll be cruising along the aisles and have to choose between a couple of brands of something and suddenly have to go home immediately.
Then I hear a guy on his cell phone talking to his honey while he picks things out for them for dinner.
But I digress.
God, I hate depression
Posted by Tabitha on August 15, 2003, at 22:28:25
In reply to Tabitha, posted by kara lynne on August 15, 2003, at 22:03:56
so it's the best of not so great options huh? I can relate to that. I apologize if my post seemed critical. It's just my own issues coming up-- I'm struggling with loneliness versus spending time with not-so-satisfying friendships right now. I enjoy the friends I have, but they have their limits, and I know that increasing intimacy or time spent with them will not be good. So sadly, being alone seems like the best choice much of the time-- of course I resist calling it 'isolating'.
Here's wishing you'll find more appealing options soon.
Posted by kara lynne on August 16, 2003, at 1:16:00
In reply to Re: Tabitha » kara lynne, posted by Tabitha on August 15, 2003, at 22:28:25
Thanks Tabby. I do feel like I've been spanked lately in some of these posts-- and not the good kind ; ).
Being alone doesn't always have to be isolating, not at all. I'm just in that primal state where it feels like it is for me. I can remember actually enjoying being alone...back in the old days.
This is the end of the thread.
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