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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JonW on September 1, 2002, at 23:11:03
Hello,
I'm sure this has been asked before but I thought I'd run it by everyone again. I've been here for a year or more and the impression you get is that no one really gets "well". People get "well" temporarily or improve their condition to the point that you would call them "better", but not "well". I'm speaking of us treatment resistent folks who have a mixture of depression (usually atypical) and anxiety (maybe GAD or SP) and possibly ADD. Also, not everyone would call these people bipolar, but you wouldn't *not* call them bipolar either. I'm sure you know the profile I'm talking about. Anyway, is there anyone around that actually did it? Or do you know of anyone who used to post here who beat this horrid beast? My sense is that I need to get to the point where things are consistantly "better" and then get more involved in therapy and in life in order to get truly "well". This post is aimed at anyone out there who got "well". First of all, you're my hero :) Secondly, how did you do it? If there is anything anyone (newbie or old-timer) can offer please share. I'm making important decisions about future treatments and this type of info could be very helpful.
Thank You,
Jonp.s. I wasn't sure what board to post to, sorry... :(
Posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 1:47:23
In reply to Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by JonW on September 1, 2002, at 23:11:03
It has been over a year since I had any serious depression, and I feel the best I ever have in my life. I feel a mental & emotional strength and a complete belief in myself.
So how did I do it?
Firstly, some background info. I think I have it easier than most because I am only 21. I caught onto my depression at an early age (18) and therefore started treatment at an early age. I've never been given any classification, but I believe that I have a general depression mixed in with a general form of anxiety. In no particular order...
* I found a med that worked (zoloft), and stuck with it. I gave up some things (like orgasms) in order to take a med that worked on my depression. (NB: I've been on & off zoloft twice. Only the first time I had side effects).
* I found a counsellor I liked and saw her as often as needed (generally once a week for 4 months, then I had a break, then I returned because other issues arose). I no longer see a counsellor, but if something difficult came up I would return.
* Originally I had to give up everything (university, job, independence, friends) and returned to live with my parents. All I did for 6 months was work on getting better. That time is kind of a blur for me.
* I have a strong network of family & friends who know my history and will be at my side the second I ask.
* I have developed a routine of positive thought patterns that I can shift to if I find myself thinking down.
* I remind myself that everyone has down days, and the important thing is to recognise it, then move on (instead of thinking 'I feel really down today, I must be getting depressed again, what a failure').
* I have a network of internet friends who have been through similar things so that if I feel nobody understands, I have people I can talk to who do understand.
* Along the same line, I have those same people that I can help out, therefore helping myself by helping others (? does that make sense?).
* I have found what I love to do in life, and am doing it.
* I am living in surroundings that I love. A bright, sunny, happy apartment by myself.
* Sunlight. The real key to me knowing that I am well is that I had a fantastic winter (I'm Australian). Usually I can't get out of bed for months because of the weather. This year, winter has flown past.
* Exercise, hard work, and decent sleep. A sleep routine for me is an absolute must. If I'm not in bed by 11pm and up by 8.30am at the latest then my whole week is a write off. So therefore I guess it is knowing myself, knowing what my body needs. It definately needs lots of sleep, lots of exercise, and lots of food!
I could probably keep going if I thought longer, but I think I've babbled on enough. I just reread your post & I'm not sure that I answered your q'n. Sorry! Bit tired today. :)
Rachael
Posted by beardedlady on September 2, 2002, at 6:19:22
In reply to I consider myself well..., posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 1:47:23
At 2:10, after having a nightmare that I was being stalked and then shot at by a serial mutilator/killer, I awoke and checked the house to make sure all the doors were locked. I took a Sonata when I got back in bed, and I tried to hold completely still for the next two hours while I wasn't falling asleep.
Eventually, I fell asleep (around 4:30), but it's the first time I've had a night like that in ages, and I woke up feeling sorry for myself.
Your list is a godsend.
> * I have a strong network of family & friends who know my history and will be at my side the second I ask.
>
> * I have developed a routine of positive thought patterns that I can shift to if I find myself thinking down.Especially this point:
>
> * I remind myself that everyone has down days, and the important thing is to recognise it, then move on (instead of thinking 'I feel really down today, I must be getting depressed again, what a failure').
>
> * I have a network of internet friends who have been through similar things so that if I feel nobody understands, I have people I can talk to who do understand.
>
> * Along the same line, I have those same people that I can help out, therefore helping myself by helping others (? does that make sense?).Of course! It makes perfect sense! It makes others feel good, and it helps take your mind off your own troubles.
>
> * I have found what I love to do in life, and am doing it.
>
> * I am living in surroundings that I love. A bright, sunny, happy apartment by myself.
>
> * Sunlight. The real key to me knowing that I am well is that I had a fantastic winter (I'm Australian). Usually I can't get out of bed for months because of the weather. This year, winter has flown past.
>
> * Exercise, hard work, and decent sleep. A sleep routine for me is an absolute must. If I'm not in bed by 11pm and up by 8.30am at the latest then my whole week is a write off.Ahhh--that's a bit of a contradiction there. Don't write off your whole week because you overslept or overdid it one night!
Anyway, Rachel, thanks again. It's the wake up call I needed this morning. And now, time for my 7:30 a.m. 4-mile cruise.
beardy
Posted by JonW on September 2, 2002, at 11:15:55
In reply to I consider myself well..., posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 1:47:23
Thanks... your story is very encouraging! :)
Jon
Posted by coral on September 2, 2002, at 11:18:32
In reply to Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by JonW on September 1, 2002, at 23:11:03
Rach's post was EXCELLENT!!!! The only thing I would add for me is a HIGH awareness of where I am -- IMO, depression is like malaria. For me, relapses are possible (had one singificant one and one baby one), and the difference is that I caught on a helluva lot quicker the second time which I believe resulted in just a baby relapse. Depression is insidious - sneaking up like early fall fog and before I know it, I'm engulfed - hence, the high vigilance in "how" I'm feeling, functioning. It also helps that my husband is now well-tuned in the vigilance game.
Posted by shar on September 2, 2002, at 20:54:40
In reply to Re: Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by coral on September 2, 2002, at 11:18:32
So glad you posted! You were the only one who came to mind as a recovered person, and I was concerned about posting "oh, yeah, Coral got well, let's hear from her." Privacy and all that.
xoxo
Shar
Posted by shar on September 2, 2002, at 20:59:55
In reply to I consider myself well..., posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 1:47:23
Posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 21:15:43
In reply to Re: Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by coral on September 2, 2002, at 11:18:32
> Rach's post was EXCELLENT!!!! The only thing I would add for me is a HIGH awareness of where I am -- IMO, depression is like malaria. For me, relapses are possible (had one singificant one and one baby one), and the difference is that I caught on a helluva lot quicker the second time which I believe resulted in just a baby relapse. Depression is insidious - sneaking up like early fall fog and before I know it, I'm engulfed - hence, the high vigilance in "how" I'm feeling, functioning. It also helps that my husband is now well-tuned in the vigilance game.
Yeah, that's so true Coral! I know that there will be times when I may lapse, but I now recognise the signs and catch it before it gets too far. There is no way I EVER want to return to where I was.
Posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 21:21:40
In reply to Thanks so much. » Rach, posted by beardedlady on September 2, 2002, at 6:19:22
I'm sorry you're having a hard time, beardy, but thankful that I have maybe helped. Just wanted to clarify a point.
> > * Exercise, hard work, and decent sleep. A sleep routine for me is an absolute must. If I'm not in bed by 11pm and up by 8.30am at the latest then my whole week is a write off.
>
> Ahhh--that's a bit of a contradiction there. Don't write off your whole week because you overslept or overdid it one night!
>I meant it was a write off in the sense that I am so exhausted, and thus find it hard to concentrate for pretty much an entire week. Of course, I allow myself Fri & Sat late nights because I can sleep late Sat & Sun! I just know if I do it mid week, I'll regret it because I'll be tired and grumpy for a few days.
Sweet dreams to you.
R
Posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 21:22:16
In reply to Re: I consider myself well... » Rach, posted by JonW on September 2, 2002, at 11:15:55
Posted by mars on September 3, 2002, at 1:18:59
In reply to Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by JonW on September 1, 2002, at 23:11:03
Hey all ~
i hesitate to call myself "well," but i sure am a helluva lot better. i was never a real regular on Dr-Bob, but i spent a lot of time here about two years ago. So, for what's it worth, here's what my stuff is, and what i've done that's really helped.
i am bipolar II and have fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. i also probably have sensory-motor integration dysfunction ~ i've always been very unhappy in my body until the last year.
i grew up in a very difficult family ~ my parents met in a psychiatric ward, and they were very troubled. i grew up very depressed, knowing that something was wrong, did therapy and meds as a teen, and then from the age of 26. i didn't even get diagnosed for the bipolar until i was in my thirties. (i'm 39 now.) i was always very, very messed up. i've been hospitalized twice, had shock treatment as well, and i've been on nearly every psychiatric med there is. i've had years where i couldn't work and had to go on disability.
When i started reading posts on Psycho-Babble, i got some very good anecdotal evidence that long-term treatment with SSRI's and other psychiatric meds could make a person worse ~ in particular, i had a lot of anhedonia ~ no pleasure in anything. i had an alcohol problem at the time, too. Things were very bleak. But i had been given an article from a natural health magazine about the actress Margo Kidder and how she manages her bipolar disorder w/o meds. So, armed with some information, i made the decision to taper off my meds in spring of 2001. i am definitely *not* anti-medication ~ i just think that it has its limits. i had reached those limits years before, as it turns out.
i tapered off the meds i was on slowly, and started doing supplements (fish oil, GABA, taurine). It took me about a year to get really stable w/o meds, but i'm *much* more stable now than i ever was on meds.
Then i started getting craniosacral massage, which has been the greatest gift. It's very gentle and non-invasive (i have had big problems with people touching me), and was developed by doctor of osteopathy. It helps circulate your cerebrospinal fluid, and it's helped me to relax and feel good in my body ~ better than i ever have before. It's supposedly great for people who've been through trauma ~ it certainly has benefited me ~ i've lost 55 pounds, and have nearly quit smoking. i had terrible insomnia before getting cranio, and now i sleep really well.
The next step was getting five-element acupuncture ~ it's different than the acupuncture that the Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) people do. That has been a big help, as well. Really keeps me feeling good.
i also improved my eating habits and started walking. i couldn't have done that before, but it hasn't been hard. i've also pretty much decaffeinated. i still need to lose about 30 more pounds, but i feel so much healthier. i also don't want to drink anymore, which is great.
Other than those things, it's mostly been a lot of trial and error. i do bodywork whenever i can ~ i can get a full-body massage now w/o discomfort, and it helps me feel really good. i treat myself better and have made a lot of progress with my self talk. i've learned to do a little energy work ~ work with my chakras. i was a real skeptic, but it works for me. Everyone's going to need something a little different.
i've also done a lot of work on my attitude ~ just learning to be appreciative, let go of pain from the past, etc. i did a lot of therapy in years past, and it definitely did me some good, but until i got the bodywork, i couldn't talk my way out of the pain. The pain was in my body, as well as my head. i still have down days, and have to watch my moods carefully, but i am doing so, so much better. i ran into the woman who gave me the Margo Kidder article a few months ago, and she didn't recognize me. She went, "Mary, you've transformed!" It's not just the weight loss ~ it's that i look happy, have a sense of well-being. It feels like a real miracle.
Hope this info helps somebody, someday. i really liked the people i met here, and PB helped me through some rough times. i know how dark it can get, and i just wanted to let y'all know that i'm finding some good ways to deal with my stuff. It's still a lot, but it's just so much better than i ever thought it could be.
Here's the website about craniosacral massage:
Here's a website with information about alternative mental health treatments, including the info about Margo Kidder that has helped me so much:
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com
Best to you all,
mary
Posted by Roo on September 3, 2002, at 9:14:56
In reply to Re: Getting WELL! To old-timers... JonW, posted by mars on September 3, 2002, at 1:18:59
Thank you so much mary! I am definitely going to
check out all your links you sent. After 8 years on
meds (with suspicions that they have, within the last 2 years
or so) started to make me _worse_...I've been tapering down
and checking out alternative stuff. I'm just in my first
couple of months of doing this, and it has been a rough road,
to be sure. But just this past week, I have started feeling
a little better. I started acupuncture (have only done it twice
now) and I notice a difference a day or so after I do it, then
it fades...But I'm hoping that the more I do it, the more it will
have a more cumulative effect. We'll see. I'm also interested in homeopathy
and anything else alternative that people have had success with in
treating depression. Doing a sort of DBT therapy, and also learned to
meditate in the past year and that has helped with my fear and doom and gloom
thoughts a lot. So I'm learning how to accept those thoughts as "just thoughts"
without necessarily BELIEVING them...but I'm still not so good at "building myself up"
with positive thoughts. My acupuncturist suggested it last week and I was surprised at
myself with how resistant I was to it. That in itself was interesting to me.
I think the bulk of my trauma was formed in those really important formative years
(between ages 1 and 3 I had a lot of severe neglect and trauma)...and I'm hoping
that no permanant brain damage was done (who knows? I certainly can't afford an MRI)...but
the more I read, the more they say that the brains of people who had trauma at an early
age, their brains are different than those who didn't. But I just have to believe there
are ways other than AD's to treat this trauma and resulting mood/depressive stuff...I'm not
antidrug either, by any means, but there's a lot we don't know about the long term effects,
and I'll never be satisfied trading in my sexuality for mental health....I've already done it
for the past 8 years of my life, and I don't want to do it anymore. Anyway, I've gotten way
off track, my point is just to thank you for sharing your story...it gives me so much hope...
I'll also have to look into the 5 element type of acupuncture you're getting...I'm getting the TCM...Thank you so much!
Posted by Kath on September 4, 2002, at 16:42:59
In reply to Getting WELL! To old-timers..., posted by JonW on September 1, 2002, at 23:11:03
> My sense is that I need to get to the point where things are consistantly "better" and then get more involved in therapy and in life in order to get truly "well".
Hi Jon - I am not your hero yet! But I do want to comment on the above sentence. It's my impression that having therapy is a really important AID to getting to the point where things are consistently better! Seems to me that people who have therapy at the same time as taking meds can be having a double treatment instead of doing one at a time.
I do know someone on another chat group who has been med-free for quite a while now, & seems to be doing very well.
Best of luck, Kath
Posted by Kath on September 4, 2002, at 16:46:43
In reply to I consider myself well..., posted by Rach on September 2, 2002, at 1:47:23
Rachael - what a wonderfully wise & inspiring post! You know I think that about you anyhow, right?!
Thanks for posting that. I am so glad to hear things have gone well.
YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! Never forget it!
luv & hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on September 4, 2002, at 16:53:19
In reply to Re: Getting WELL! To old-timers... JonW, posted by mars on September 3, 2002, at 1:18:59
Mary - how wonderful to hear how tremendously well you've done.
I'm especially interested in all the, what I call "wholisic" stuff.
Thanks for sharing all that & I'm so glad you're doing so well!
hugs, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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