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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 21:58:52
So, today I get a letter from the Federal Blue Cross B/S health benefit plan. Seems that "in the patient's best interests, and to comply with the FDA" they are going to regulate meds prescribed for insomnia. Insomnia,they say, is usually only to be treated for 7-10 days according to the FDA and the drug companies literature (PDR). So, starting in July, my doc can only prescribe me one 30 day supply per year. This, for me, is Ambien. But the other meds listed are: Dalmane, Halcion, Prosom, Restoril and Sonata. Of course, if my doctor has "determined that additional therapy is appropriate for me" he may "request additional medication" by calling BCBS to explain WHY I need the meds. So, now they are brow-beating my doc into complying with their guidelines, or else "branding" him as a drug pushing evil doctor not concerned about my "safe and appropriate utilization" of these controlled insomnia meds. Well excuse the hell out of me, but has it come to this where it's easier to go out to a street corner and buy drugs than to get my doctor to legitimately and legally prescribe the meds he thinks I need? This is really a bunch of crap! Sure, the "normal" person with occasional sleep problems might have no problems with a 7-10 day supply of meds. But what about those of us with severe chemical imbalances that are treated by AD meds like Wellbutrin, that can exacerbate sleep disorders? Am I to have to quit my AD meds because I need Ambien to help counter some of WB's side effects? Are they going to target benzos next? Gee, maybe I'm taking too much aspirin too? Why is it I can go buy enough liquor to put me into a coma, but I can't get the legitimate insomnia meds I need? This is really just too much for me to deal with, I am so pissed off at the greed of these companied. And THAT is the bottom line, money. They don't give a rip about my best interests medically. So, if any of you have Federal BCBS, be on the lookout for YOUR letter if you are taking the above mentioned meds.
PAX
Posted by kid_A on May 17, 2002, at 22:06:45
In reply to Insurance Nazis or: Pharmaceutical Company greed?, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 21:58:52
Wow! And I thought I was getting a stiff deal when I was only allowed 14 ambien a month... I think if I was perscribed anymore than that I might be considered some sort of a drug fiend or somesuch...My insurance, and many others now, is on a tier system... Which means basically that the 'good' drugs, read (less side effects) are in the top tier, and the prefered drugs (read old and fallen out of favour), are on the bottom tier...
thats why I'm on Thorazine, and not Geodon...
but it's still fun to tell people I'm on Thorazine... its a laugh riot.
good luck, what a scam...
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 18, 2002, at 11:08:26
In reply to Insurance Nazis or: Pharmaceutical Company greed?, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 21:58:52
Paxvox,
The class of drugs that you are reffering to cause addiction after 7-10 days and there is a withdrawal syndrome associated with it. Now you say that there is a class of people that should be allowed to be addicted to these drugs because they are needed because they take other drugs that cause insomnia like the drug Wellbutrin and that the restriction that the doctor must give a reason to give you the drug or the insurance companys become "brow-beaters". Now I do not believe that someone should be given an addictive drug because they are taking another drug but your doctor may believe you do.
Now I have championed the 7-10 day restriction of these addicting drugs. I have seen the horrors in the people that result from these drugs when they are taken beyond the 7-10 days. I have seen people go to prison that went out on the street to obtain these drugs illlegally because they were addicted from being prescribed these drugs beyond the 7-10 days.I have seen young people 's education ruined from these drugs that were prescribed to them beyond the 7-10 days. I have seen people loose their livelyhoods from taking these drugs that were prescribed to them and stealing them from hospitals that they were empoyled. I have known people that have killed themselves while they were taking these drugs that were prescribed to them. I have seen people die from accidents that they had that were contributed from the drug. I have known people that have had their marriages ruined from taking these drugs that were prescribed to them for more than 7-10 days. There are posters on these boards that tell of the horrors that they are endurring from these drugs and they can't get through the withdrawal and the suffering from the withdrawal.
There are young people reading this board and I want them to know the dangers of these drugs so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not to take one of these drugs. I hope that all of our young people that look on to this board for "support" and "education" will not take these drugs after 7-10 days unless their doctor overides the warning in to the insurance provider. And I hope that they will not go out on the street to get these drugs because you say that "it is a bunch of crap."You call the insurance companys "Nazis" when all they are trying to do is protect the public's health by restricting doctors from indescriminatly prescribing these drugs. The doctor could still prescribe you the drug if a medical need is indicated in his/her opinion and a phone call is made to your insurance provider.
Now I hold a world record. It is in insurance sales. I have a license and I have studied this issue in more depth than anyone on this board that I have read posts from. And I studied the epidemiology of these drugs. I had to know the probability of deaths and disability from these drugs. You see, insurance, drugs and death was my business.
Lou
Posted by jane d on May 18, 2002, at 11:16:17
In reply to Insurance Nazis or: Pharmaceutical Company greed?, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 21:58:52
Insurers already do this with other drugs. For example with Wellbutrin they might require a statement that it was used to treat depression not smoking. Or that cheaper NSAID's had been tried first for arthritis relief. It may be as simple as, once a year, having your doctor state to them that the drug is to treat antidepressant related insomnia. I hope that's all it is this time.
Jane
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 18, 2002, at 13:30:17
In reply to Insurance Nazis or: Pharmaceutical Company greed?, posted by paxvox on May 17, 2002, at 21:58:52
parvox,
You have said that you have been told that you have a chemical imbalance and you are treated with an AD that can exaccerbate your sleep disorder.
Now I want our young people that are reading this for "education" and "support" to know that the theory of chemical imbalance is considered by many as "quackery" and that you can key in on Google, "chemical imbalance theory of psychiatry,quackery", and read what others say about this theory. Now it appears to me that after reading many of the posts on this board that the drugs themselves will cause a chemical imbalance.
Also, I would like for the readers on this board to examine the issue of legal amd illegal drugs for parvox has brought up a valid point in the statement that you can buy all the liquor you want legally. I believe that our young people are asking the same questions for when I was a high-school teacher, I saw, first hand , the ruining of lives from both legal and illegal drugs and alchohol.
Lou
Posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 14:50:39
In reply to Chemical imbalance theory » paxvox, posted by Lou Pilder on May 18, 2002, at 13:30:17
Lou, I'm glad to see you are not ambivalent on this issue. However, don't assume that we (me, specifically) are naive of the "risks" of addiction vs. the benefits of treatment. True, you have a perspective clearly coming from the other direction, and may indeed be more objective. However, if it were YOU we were talking about, If it were YOU who needed the medications, how would you have responded?
We all have to choose our poisons at times. Clearly, we should have as much choice in our medical treatment as we do in our legal drug use.
PAX
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 18, 2002, at 15:00:04
In reply to Re: Chemical imbalance theory » Lou Pilder, posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 14:50:39
Pax,
I would be glad to respond to any question that you have of me. Feel free to clarify what you mean by, having "as much choice in our medical treatment as in our legal drug use."
I really do not understand that statement as pertaining to this discussion and would like for you to give more of what you mean by that in order for me to understand clearly what you mean.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 20:46:55
In reply to Re: Chemical imbalance theory » paxvox, posted by Lou Pilder on May 18, 2002, at 15:00:04
Simple: What I meant was, one can go buy some cigs, some coffee or a case of beer (all *legal* drugs). One could decide to get smash-faced drunk, do it every day until they are a hard-core alcoholic. Then become some DUI statistic, or some other leech on society. This is all well and fine (yes, I know there are laws about cars and alcohol). However, I cannot choose to have my depression just *poof* and go away. I don't self medicate with street drugs, or illegally diverted scripts. But I *need* controlled substances to live a life of substantive quality because I take Ambien to help me sleep. What's so hard to understand about that?
PAX
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 7:42:12
In reply to Re: Chemical imbalance theory » Lou Pilder, posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 20:46:55
Pax,
When I was a teacher, I apprehended a student smoking marijuana. He snapped at me and said, "I smoke MJ because I have a chemical imbalance and the drug in the marijuana attatches to my receptors in my brain and relieves my depression so that I can function at school here. You teachers take addicting drugs that you get from doctors, why are you better than me?"
I remeber that face of outrage stairing at me. I was requirered to turn him in and he would be expelled and his life would be ruined. He would also go to court for the offense. He also was a world-class baseball pitcher and had been already promised $100,000.00 just to sign with the New York Yankees.
I anguished over whether to turn him in or not.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 19, 2002, at 9:11:23
In reply to Wait and see. Waivers may be routine. » paxvox, posted by jane d on May 18, 2002, at 11:16:17
Want to hear something funny???
In the UK they will only prescribe wellbrutin (Zyban over here) for smoking cessation and not as an AD!!!! Great eh!!
nikki
Posted by Ron Hill on May 19, 2002, at 9:11:31
In reply to Re: Chemical imbalance theory » paxvox, posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 7:42:12
> When I was a teacher, ...
------------------------Lou,
I usually enjoy reading your posts, however, IMHO Pax has won the debate on the topic of this thread. Choosing to take any type of medication should be based on a risk/benefit analysis. The point Pax is trying to make is that the insurance company is basing their decision primarily on a cost basis instead of a well done risk/benefit analysis. Further, the insurance company wants to play "Big Brother" by taking the decision making authority away from the pdoc and patient and self-appointing themselves as bureaucratic dictators.
On a personal note, what subjects did you teach and in what country? Is English your first language?
-- Ron
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 9:25:25
In reply to Re: Sleep Aid Medication » Lou Pilder, posted by Ron Hill on May 19, 2002, at 9:11:31
Ron;
I am glad to meet you. I am from Cincinnati, Ohio and I was a math teacher (grades 7-12)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 9:32:38
In reply to Re: Wait and see. Waivers may be routine. » jane d, posted by NikkiT2 on May 19, 2002, at 9:11:23
Nikki,
It is always good to hear from the British. Could you give us any more infomation as to why Wellbutrin (Zyban) is not approved in the UK for an AD?
Cheerio?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 10:58:16
In reply to Re: Sleep Aid Medication » Lou Pilder, posted by Ron Hill on May 19, 2002, at 9:11:31
Ron;
Could you tell me why you asked me if English was my first language?
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 19, 2002, at 15:28:30
In reply to Good to hear from the British » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 9:32:38
Good question!!! It is widely used now as a smoking cessation aid yet my psychiatrist isn't allowed to prescribe it as an AD.. We talked alot about this (it made me so angry!) and he has no idea why either!! I have even offered to give up smoking if he'd let me try it, but he has no knowledge of how it would affect the Zyprexa I also take. I know of someone who gets it on private prescription, but this is out of my financial capabilities at the moment!!
Nikki
Posted by Ron Hill on May 20, 2002, at 2:57:06
In reply to A question to Ron from Lou » Ron Hill, posted by Lou Pilder on May 19, 2002, at 10:58:16
> Ron;
> Could you tell me why you asked me if English was my first language?
> Thanks,
> Lou
-------------------
'Cause ya aint a very good writer, Lou! :-)Or maybe you just type fast and choose not to edit your messages prior to posting. Either way, however, as a Christian brother, I love you just the same.
-- Ron
You are not of this world. If you were of this world, the world would love you as its own. As it is, however, the world despises you because you belong to Me.
If they hated Me, they will hate you also.
In this world you will have trouble. But take heart, I have overcome the world.
I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place, I will return for you so that where I am, you may be also.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 20, 2002, at 7:22:17
In reply to Re: English really is your first language??? » Lou Pilder, posted by Ron Hill on May 20, 2002, at 2:57:06
Ron,
It is a great joy to hear from you. For where two are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them.
Lou
Posted by paxvox on May 21, 2002, at 20:39:26
In reply to Re: English really is your first language??? » Ron Hill, posted by Lou Pilder on May 20, 2002, at 7:22:17
Now Lou, where was THAT Christian brotherhood and understanding during your lambasting of my opinions and me personally?
However.......
How many times are we to forgive?
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 21, 2002, at 20:53:51
In reply to Re: English really is your first language??? » Lou Pilder, posted by paxvox on May 21, 2002, at 20:39:26
Paxvox,
It is good to hear from you again. To answer your question as to how many times we are to forgive someone, I asked that question when I was at the City of Peace and I was told," forgive someone 7 times 70 times." I took that to mean that you should forgive without keeping a record, for who would keep such records?
Please forgive me if I said anything personally towards you, for I had no intention to.
It is nice to hear from you again,
Lou
Posted by paxvox on May 22, 2002, at 20:41:37
In reply to Lou 's answer to Paxvox's question » paxvox, posted by Lou Pilder on May 21, 2002, at 20:53:51
What problems Lou? I remember nothing. Thanks, and I'll see you on the board.
PAX
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2002, at 20:46:19
In reply to Re: Lou 's answer to Paxvox's question » Lou Pilder, posted by paxvox on May 22, 2002, at 20:41:37
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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