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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 15:12:43
Nothing seems to work for long. I'm still having quite a bit of trouble today. Some relief from my actions of last night, but as today wears on, the mind storm begins to brew again. Part of it is from work (more piled onto a very weary worker) -- part from wondering how I will behave at group therapy. I am wondering what I am getting out of being sick. This is one of my worse spells in years -- probably since I tried to take my life two years ago. I seem to be unwilling to do anything anyone else wants me to do -- no matter how logical, meaningful the suggestion. I seem to only want to do harmful things. Why do I choose misery? It puzzles me.
akc
Posted by Greg A. on December 6, 2001, at 17:23:54
In reply to Still in distress, posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 15:12:43
akc – I get that same thing too. When I am down, for whatever reason, I have this tendency to do destructive things rather than helpful things.
I don’t want to take my meds cause after all they are supposed to cure me right??
I don’t want to seek help from the people who have helped me before
I stop exercising and start drinking
I look for escape in silly actions like telling a friend that I love her, just to mess things up a bit more. When I get the reaction I deserve, I just pile it on to my ever growing mound of misery.Yet, when things are reasonably good, I am great for trying to fine tune my life to make it even better. I give great advice. I am patient rather than hasty or short tempered. I am active rather than passively sitting and waiting for things to happen to me. I make reasonably good decisions that I can see are logical instead of no decision or some action precipitated by faulty thinking.
Hang in there akc – we’re both due for some relief. Pick one thing that’s good for you and do it today. I am going to go to the gym for an hour.Greg
Posted by Augusta on December 6, 2001, at 17:31:19
In reply to Still in distress, posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 15:12:43
Hi akc,
I have hesitated to reply as my thoughts might well be at odds with the truth. However, I will offer them, fwiw.
Does your therapist have a "name" for her (I think it's her, yes?) philosophy? I really am bothered by the apparent "you have to suffer" thesis unless it is coupled with some very likely and worthwhile result. (Also, what is her philosophy about meds and the role that they should play vis a vis the therapy?)
I don't know if this is true or helpful or applicable, but I will just tell you what I have learned myself -- that I do better, usually much better, when I don't attribute negative or destructive motives to myself. I do better when I assume that I am motivated by something logical and worthwhile.
(That does not mean, of course, that I have necessarily chosen the best means of reaching my inner goal -- it just means that my goal is worthwhile and entitled to dignity and respect.)
In your case, of not wanting to follow suggestions -- I don't know, maybe you are just mad, and justifiably so? Or maybe you feel that you are so controlled already by external circumstances and you have an overwhelming need to be "determined" any further by others. Or maybe their suggestions just aren't responsive to your actual needs.
So, those are my two thoughts. One is a question really -- what is your therapist's theory/philosopy? i.e., where does her current approach come from? And, assuming for a moment that you are motivated by understandable, possibly even laudable nees, what might those needs be? (seen from this very different perspective?)
I hope that makes some kind of sense. I hear and sense your pain, and wish I could do something to diminish it.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2001, at 18:03:00
In reply to Still in distress, posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 15:12:43
Gosh, I hope this doesn't come from your therapist. I can't see how believing you are choosing to suffer to get some sort of secondary gain or that you are choosing misery for some nefarious purpose can be at all useful. It would just add shame to misery. And it is not at all logical. It is inferring cause or motive from the outcome. And there are any number of causes that can result in the same outcome. It's probably more likely that your current meltdown is a result of the accumulation of stressors you've had over the last few months. And when we are feeling frayed, agitated, and unstable we tend to make poor decisions. That is just part and parcel of the illness. I have seen you struggle with harmful urges for some time now. I have seen you reach out both here and more importantly to your therapists and doctor. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
Posted by Lini on December 7, 2001, at 10:00:56
In reply to Re: Still in Canada, posted by Greg A. on December 6, 2001, at 17:23:54
> akc – I get that same thing too. When I am down, for whatever reason, I have this tendency to do destructive things rather than helpful things.
> I don’t want to take my meds cause after all they are supposed to cure me right??
> I don’t want to seek help from the people who have helped me before
> I stop exercising and start drinking
> I look for escape in silly actions like telling a friend that I love her, just to mess things up a bit more. When I get the reaction I deserve, I just pile it on to my ever growing mound of misery.
>
> Yet, when things are reasonably good, I am great for trying to fine tune my life to make it even better. I give great advice. I am patient rather than hasty or short tempered. I am active rather than passively sitting and waiting for things to happen to me. I make reasonably good decisions that I can see are logical instead of no decision or some action precipitated by faulty thinking.
> Hang in there akc – we’re both due for some relief. Pick one thing that’s good for you and do it today. I am going to go to the gym for an hour.
>
> GregHey Greg
your message really struck me, cause it almost seemed like i could have written it myself. that is EXACTLY the type of things I am doing right now. I couldn't make a positive choice if I was paid to. and i can't figure out what it is about. i have been switiching my meds lately due to side effect issues and am now on Zoloft. I just feel an overwhelming "who cares" with added bits of drama (calling ex-boyfriends when i am drunk type nonsense). I feel like a big mystery to myself. and the drinking has gotten out of control. . .
anyway, can you think of anything that helps you get over the hump? do things just seem to pass? do you think it has anything to do with the holidays? the war?
hopefully the Zoloft will kick in and I can turn back into a rationale motivated human being.
Posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 15:29:41
In reply to Re: Still in Canada » Greg A., posted by Lini on December 7, 2001, at 10:00:56
Lini,
Wish I had a sure fire recipe for avoiding destructive behaviour. My thought about trying to accomplish one positive thing . . . it helps a bit.
One thing I hate when switching meds is the way my doc 'sentences' me to several weeks of misery until the new one kicks in. Sometimes I think they figure you'll fill the prescr., take one pill, and be well on the road to recovery, Instead you go home and sink deeper into misery. That brings on drinking, or eating, or sleeping, or whatever we do to dull the pain. Finally, one day (if the med works) it dawns on you that you are noticing the sky is blue or whatever.
It's tough enough to kick addictions, whether they are behavioural, or substance, when you feel well, let alone when you feel terrible.
Last night for example, I did my one positive thing - I went to the gym. My whole body ached and it was hard to go through any sort of workout - but I did. Then I came home and drank 6 beer. Why?? I know that it's not good for me but I felt so wound up and anxious, I gave in rather easily. I should add that I have recently gone 3 months without drinking. It wasn't too much of a problem because my meds had me feeling pretty good. The past 2 weeks, somethng has gone wrong. What I am taking is no longer working or working as well. Bring on the destructive behaviour and the why bother attitude.
I told my pdoc once that the more failures with treatments I have, the less able I seem to be to cope with searching for another alternative. I swear I could become suicidal in a day. I know the routine cause I have been there before. My brain says 'I am not going to put up with this Greg A.
Posted by akc on December 7, 2001, at 15:51:06
In reply to Re: Still in Canada, posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 15:29:41
> I told my pdoc once that the more failures with treatments I have, the less able I seem to be to cope with searching for another alternative. I swear I could become suicidal in a day. I know the routine cause I have been there before. My brain says 'I am not going to put up with this Greg A.
You know, this almost reminds me of my cognitive days -- bit of that we are hard-wiring ourselves type thing. I think that when I get sick, I am just so hard-wired to destruct, it is not funny. And I keep threatening that I cannot keep doing these -- that they are too much.
Don't know if that made any sense.
I don't make any sense today.
akc
Posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 16:07:45
In reply to Re: Still in Canada » Greg A., posted by akc on December 7, 2001, at 15:51:06
Y'know akc - Many people with depression, manic depression, and so on, are very bright people. A lot of us are real Type A's and are never satisfied with what we do. But when the illness hits, we often seem unable to break loose enough to help ourselves. Or maybe whatever we have tried in the way of cognitive changes, has not worked. Or maybe we just get too damned tired of trying and failing.
I don't look on my depression as a personal failure of any sort. I do not bring it on myself directly. But I know many of the things i do, many of the ways I respond to stresses, and many of my coping mechanisms make depressive episodes worse or make them last longer.Greg
PS - you do make sense.
Posted by akc on December 7, 2001, at 16:28:09
In reply to Re: StillinSmallTownwithsnowontreesin Canada, posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 16:07:45
Snow, what's snow? It hit 75 in KC this week -- I hate hot weather. Bah, humbug!
I think some of my depression stems from the fact that I cannot think my way out of this. For 5 years I have sought help, and for 2 1/2 years I've really sought help, working with some of the more talented folks in this region. Yet, I sit here today in misery -- and in anger.
As a small child, in a horrible environment, I'm suppose to look back and give that little child kudo's for how creative (how smart) she was for keeping her self safe. Yet, I cannot seem to keep myself safe now. Seems ironic, in an Alanis sort of way.
I haven't tried every med, and I am not always the most compliant -- not compliant at all this week -- what with the drinking and cutting. But, all in all, I do work at this. So more anger -- how did I land back here, so low?
A lot of this is rhetorical -- though anyone may respond with ideas. I just don't know where I am going right now. Trying to put one foot forward with work -- digging myself out of that hole so I have the job -- for the insurance, the salary, the self-esteem.
akc
Posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 21:00:15
In reply to Re: StillinSmallTownwithsnowontreesin Canada » Greg A., posted by akc on December 7, 2001, at 16:28:09
Yes, it's snowing as we speak . . . or as I speak. I have a fire going in the wood stove. I have a wife and one daughter at a basketball game. I have another daughter 400 mi. away playing basketball - or I should say - watching. She phoned last night to say she broke her hand in a game yesterday.
Wife just phoned and wants to know if I would like to go out for dinner when she gets home. I guess so. I have already had several drinks and look forward to having more.
Unlike you akc, I had a pretty idyllic childhood. I have no one to hate or to blame. Only me. Or the Supreme Being who has seen fit to torment me with this illness. Am I getting what I deserve??
Yes. we are fortunate to have jobs, for the pay, for the health care, for the self esteem. But how good can it be to go somewhere you don't like each and every day?
I hope your weekend brings you some peace akc.Greg
Posted by Lini on December 8, 2001, at 12:46:00
In reply to Re: StillinSmallTownwithsnowontreesin Canada » akc, posted by Greg A. on December 7, 2001, at 21:00:15
Akc, you do make sense. Greg, definitely go out to dinner. :) Thanks for being here on my screen today you two. For a few minutes, I felt normal cause two other people felt like me. I guess that doesn't really sound right, cause we don't seem to be feeling all that great, but the "we" of it helps.
Greg, I am really working on finding that one positive thing. I just got off the phone with a guy friend of mine that I decided to tell I had feelings for a couple days ago in a drunken stupor. Of course, he just wants to be friends, as we have been, and honestly, I don't even think I would want for things to be romantic, but now my feelings are hurt and I don't want to talk to him at all. I told him not to call me and that I would call him some day in the future. My thought is to never call him again. Stupid huh? All messed up for no reason except to give me a reason to feel terrible. I'm a mess.
The gym sounds like a good thing to do, except I know that I will want to drink after. I feel a bathrobe day coming on. . .
Posted by Greg A. on December 8, 2001, at 21:44:25
In reply to Re: StillinSmallTownwithsnowontreesin Canada, posted by Lini on December 8, 2001, at 12:46:00
Hey Lini,
I don't own a bathrobe, but I know what you mean. Isn't it great to find other 'normal people' with similar problems. I can remember, a long time ago, thinking that I was the only person in the world who felt this way. I was ashamed. When I found out I was ill, that helped because I could try to do something about it. But when I found so many others - intelligent people - with similar problems . . . you're right - it's nice to not be alone.
Greg
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