![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by susan C on August 29, 2001, at 15:55:20
Dear Cindy and Anne and etc.,
I took Willow’s cue and went off line to write this. Both of you ask very big questions about children and relationships; anger and frustration; mothers and fathers; children and parents; decisions and action.. I cannot answer them for you, only give opinions (that are like elbows, everybody has at least two) and I can only describe what happened to me and perhaps you can gain some twenty-twenty hindsight.
I am 50 years old. In my twenties, my significant other and I had decided to not have children, after all, any moment the world could be destroyed by nuclear bombs. Then, I hit 27-28 and MY clock started ticking VERY LOUDLY. I realized then that when I grew old, I would regret not having had kids. I also felt it was important for smart people to have kids, and I felt if I were going to have a child, to make a family, I should have two. Don’t forget I had been with my mate for seven years, we had made the commitment to spend the rest of our lives together and I KNEW he would be a good father. I did not want to do this on my own. I have friends who are what I call ‘intentional mothers’ women who have children but do not want a relationship with a man for whatever reasons. I could not do that. I also accepted that money was not an issue. Poor people have kids. We did not need to wait, ‘til we had enough money’ to start. I didn’t think about it then, but I realized later, that no one I knew was having kids, or starting a family. I was very alone for a long time. I did not have a ‘support system’ in place. My family, my mother and siblings live a long ways away.
Do you know that 50% of all pregnancies are intentional?
I-I-I this response is full of ‘I’ but it really was ‘we’. My spouse and I decided together. I decided to be a stay at home mom. After a month or so went by after the birth of our first child…I was distraught. Everyone was calling me ‘mom’, I felt like my identity was gone. Later I realized everyone thought it was a compliment to call me ‘mother’ all the time, but at the time, for me, it was upsetting. Now, I look back and I realize how difficult that time was. My husband said every Sunday, you take the evening off. I will take care of the little one. So, off I went, to movies, to walk, to shop, just to sit somewhere with a cup of tea.
We had planned to have the second child 2 to three years later. With gallbadder and foot operations, it was four and a half years later that my second was born. By the time he got out of diapers, they were so threadbare you could see through them. And, I celebrated. I have often wondered if we could have had 5 kids during that time, and would it have made any difference? Would it have been as much of a challenge. I admire people who have more than two kids, I am in awe.
Do you know that Estrogens are convulsants and Progesterone is an anti convulsant and that pregnancy can bring on seizure there for mood changes because of shifts in hormones?
I would not trade my children for the world. They were, are, hard work, the hardest work I have ever done in my life. I could not have done it without my spouse, nor would I have wanted to. I don’t think I could have done it any earlier in my life, I don’t think I would have started much later. I would like to think if I were unable to have had children myself and still felt the need to provide a home to someone, I would have adopted, but looking back, realistically, I think I would just not have had kids.
If I know what I know now about my illness, I think I would not have had children. There, I have said it. Hopefully, my children will not carry it forward. That my spouse’s even temper and good nature canceled out my moodswings and brain illness. On the other hand, see the previous paragraph.
On the other hand there have been great advances in medicine, just for Cindy to be aware of the liability of increasing mood problems with additional pregnancies is reasurring. Perhaps you can prepare, now that you know this challenge lays before you.
I have dealt with this illness all my life, sometimes are good, sometimes very bad. For those times that were difficult for my children, I apologize and at the same time I think, it showed them I was human, fallible, fragile.
If it were me, knowing what I know now about myself and I was 38 deciding whether or not to have a second child let alone a second, I would not do it. I qualify that statement with, if I had a full-time nanny who would never leave and was god’s gift and unlimited money and and and. Perhaps the grass is always greener on the other side. I would make the decision and never look back. Regrets for decisions, unfortunately is one of the symptoms of my illness.
What do you want? Knowing your symptoms will be worse, will you have a support system in place? (I didn’t)
What does your husband think, feel, desire?
What do you want, really really want? (You have my permission to be self-ish)In closing, my sister in law and brother were 45 last year when they had their second child. Their first is 10. They will be 63 when the youngest is 18.
As you can see I am ambivilant.
Join other babblers on chat, be sure to sign up and test everything a head of time.
Been there, done that,
Susan C. Alias Mighty Mouse (I never noticed if he had a family?)
Posted by Krazy Kat on August 30, 2001, at 14:08:38
In reply to children and relationships; anger and frustration;, posted by susan C on August 29, 2001, at 15:55:20
I do not think Mighty Mouse had a family. I think he was destined to be a loner.
What an insightful post, Susan.
Cindy: I am 30 and don't have children yet, and have felt mostly that I will not. This is mainly due to the fact that I don't feel I will be able to handle to it. My husband is not particularly child-driven, so there's pressure there.
But, then I wonder, if can get my medication working, if I'd be able to handle it, to do a good job. I do, honestly, worry about passing on this illness, which appears to be manic depression in my family. My brother is very "bad". It seems to just get worse for me. But maybe we have the type of med needed pinpointed now? I don't know. I really don't think I could survive very long without it. So that alone seems a little scary. And selfish.
Diane's reply made sense to me, that the second time could actually be simpler because you have things in place. I am convinced that the simpler the better for depressives and manic/depressives. And as two of the guys pointed out in a thread above, as children are older, I don't think you can hide what's going on - we never discussed my Dad's depression and it would have been so much better if we had.
Everyone's illness is different. Your husband may have to be prepared to take over if you become severely depressed at any point. But that's true whether you have another child or not.
The hardest part of all of this has been having to ask for help for me. The second hardest is trying to determine what outside factors are "setting me off", how much stress I can handle, which seems to be less and less. But part of that is medication, and building back up slowly.
Good luck and keep posting for feedback.
- K.
Posted by Cindylou on August 30, 2001, at 18:08:22
In reply to children and relationships; anger and frustration;, posted by susan C on August 29, 2001, at 15:55:20
Dear Susan,
Thank you for this insightful, honest and helpful post. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and experiences with me.I can certainly understand your ambivalence on this issue -- I seem to change my mind every minute. However, from what I gathered, it sounds as if you would not have chosen to have a second (or even a first) knowing what you know now about your illness.
One question ... are your children close to each other? Are you glad you decided on having a second so that they have each other as siblings? That's a big concern for me; I really want Holly to grow up with a brother or sister. Am I placing too much emphasis on that desire?
As for me... what do I want? That's a tough one. I guess, if I KNEW that my daughter would be happy as an only child, I would choose to not have another. On the flip side, I remember a mother of an only child telling me she wished she had been able to have another because with one child, the highs are higher and the lows are lower. Ambivalence again. Ugh.
You raised a good point, one I think about often -- will I pass on this mental illness to my daughter? Another reason to consider adoption, or not having a second of our own. My husband and I have mood disorders on both sides of our family -- depression, anxiety, OCD and ADD -- to name a few. It scares me to think of my daughter's odds in acquiring some or all of this mix.
I am hoping that, if I decide to have another, I will have built up a support group by that time. I have made some new friends with young kids who I get together with quite often; but I'm not extremely close to any of them -- as far as telling them about my depression/anxiety disorder. Maybe the day will come when I'll be able to open up -- it would so helpful to have friends who knew about my mental illness and still accepted me.
Thanks again Susan for your support.
Fondly,
Cindy> Dear Cindy and Anne and etc.,
>
> I took Willow’s cue and went off line to write this. Both of you ask very big questions about children and relationships; anger and frustration; mothers and fathers; children and parents; decisions and action.. I cannot answer them for you, only give opinions (that are like elbows, everybody has at least two) and I can only describe what happened to me and perhaps you can gain some twenty-twenty hindsight.
>
> I am 50 years old. In my twenties, my significant other and I had decided to not have children, after all, any moment the world could be destroyed by nuclear bombs. Then, I hit 27-28 and MY clock started ticking VERY LOUDLY. I realized then that when I grew old, I would regret not having had kids. I also felt it was important for smart people to have kids, and I felt if I were going to have a child, to make a family, I should have two. Don’t forget I had been with my mate for seven years, we had made the commitment to spend the rest of our lives together and I KNEW he would be a good father. I did not want to do this on my own. I have friends who are what I call ‘intentional mothers’ women who have children but do not want a relationship with a man for whatever reasons. I could not do that. I also accepted that money was not an issue. Poor people have kids. We did not need to wait, ‘til we had enough money’ to start. I didn’t think about it then, but I realized later, that no one I knew was having kids, or starting a family. I was very alone for a long time. I did not have a ‘support system’ in place. My family, my mother and siblings live a long ways away.
>
> Do you know that 50% of all pregnancies are intentional?
>
> I-I-I this response is full of ‘I’ but it really was ‘we’. My spouse and I decided together. I decided to be a stay at home mom. After a month or so went by after the birth of our first child…I was distraught. Everyone was calling me ‘mom’, I felt like my identity was gone. Later I realized everyone thought it was a compliment to call me ‘mother’ all the time, but at the time, for me, it was upsetting. Now, I look back and I realize how difficult that time was. My husband said every Sunday, you take the evening off. I will take care of the little one. So, off I went, to movies, to walk, to shop, just to sit somewhere with a cup of tea.
>
> We had planned to have the second child 2 to three years later. With gallbadder and foot operations, it was four and a half years later that my second was born. By the time he got out of diapers, they were so threadbare you could see through them. And, I celebrated. I have often wondered if we could have had 5 kids during that time, and would it have made any difference? Would it have been as much of a challenge. I admire people who have more than two kids, I am in awe.
>
> Do you know that Estrogens are convulsants and Progesterone is an anti convulsant and that pregnancy can bring on seizure there for mood changes because of shifts in hormones?
>
> I would not trade my children for the world. They were, are, hard work, the hardest work I have ever done in my life. I could not have done it without my spouse, nor would I have wanted to. I don’t think I could have done it any earlier in my life, I don’t think I would have started much later. I would like to think if I were unable to have had children myself and still felt the need to provide a home to someone, I would have adopted, but looking back, realistically, I think I would just not have had kids.
>
> If I know what I know now about my illness, I think I would not have had children. There, I have said it. Hopefully, my children will not carry it forward. That my spouse’s even temper and good nature canceled out my moodswings and brain illness. On the other hand, see the previous paragraph.
>
> On the other hand there have been great advances in medicine, just for Cindy to be aware of the liability of increasing mood problems with additional pregnancies is reasurring. Perhaps you can prepare, now that you know this challenge lays before you.
>
> I have dealt with this illness all my life, sometimes are good, sometimes very bad. For those times that were difficult for my children, I apologize and at the same time I think, it showed them I was human, fallible, fragile.
>
> If it were me, knowing what I know now about myself and I was 38 deciding whether or not to have a second child let alone a second, I would not do it. I qualify that statement with, if I had a full-time nanny who would never leave and was god’s gift and unlimited money and and and. Perhaps the grass is always greener on the other side. I would make the decision and never look back. Regrets for decisions, unfortunately is one of the symptoms of my illness.
>
> What do you want? Knowing your symptoms will be worse, will you have a support system in place? (I didn’t)
> What does your husband think, feel, desire?
> What do you want, really really want? (You have my permission to be self-ish)
>
> In closing, my sister in law and brother were 45 last year when they had their second child. Their first is 10. They will be 63 when the youngest is 18.
>
> As you can see I am ambivilant.
>
> Join other babblers on chat, be sure to sign up and test everything a head of time.
>
> Been there, done that,
>
> Susan C. Alias Mighty Mouse (I never noticed if he had a family?)
Posted by Cindylou on August 30, 2001, at 18:11:58
In reply to Re: children and relationships; anger and frustration;, posted by Krazy Kat on August 30, 2001, at 14:08:38
Hi K,
Thanks for your thoughts and support. I surely don't think you're selfish for feeling like you couldn't live without your medication -- I have seen through the years how vital they are to my ability to make it through ...Thanks again ... look forward to sharing more with you on this board,
cindy.
> I do not think Mighty Mouse had a family. I think he was destined to be a loner.
>
> What an insightful post, Susan.
>
> Cindy: I am 30 and don't have children yet, and have felt mostly that I will not. This is mainly due to the fact that I don't feel I will be able to handle to it. My husband is not particularly child-driven, so there's pressure there.
>
> But, then I wonder, if can get my medication working, if I'd be able to handle it, to do a good job. I do, honestly, worry about passing on this illness, which appears to be manic depression in my family. My brother is very "bad". It seems to just get worse for me. But maybe we have the type of med needed pinpointed now? I don't know. I really don't think I could survive very long without it. So that alone seems a little scary. And selfish.
>
> Diane's reply made sense to me, that the second time could actually be simpler because you have things in place. I am convinced that the simpler the better for depressives and manic/depressives. And as two of the guys pointed out in a thread above, as children are older, I don't think you can hide what's going on - we never discussed my Dad's depression and it would have been so much better if we had.
>
> Everyone's illness is different. Your husband may have to be prepared to take over if you become severely depressed at any point. But that's true whether you have another child or not.
>
> The hardest part of all of this has been having to ask for help for me. The second hardest is trying to determine what outside factors are "setting me off", how much stress I can handle, which seems to be less and less. But part of that is medication, and building back up slowly.
>
> Good luck and keep posting for feedback.
>
> - K.
Posted by susan C on August 30, 2001, at 19:45:24
In reply to Re: children and relationships; anger and frustration; » susan C, posted by Cindylou on August 30, 2001, at 18:08:22
Dear Cindy, I hope this isnt too confusing, I couldnt figure out any other way to answer your questions:
>
> I can certainly understand your ambivalence on this issue -- I seem to change my mind every minute. However, from what I gathered, it sounds as if you would not have chosen to have a second (or even a first) knowing what you know now about your illness.I just cant answer that, I had my children, they are wonderful, my life went a different direction, irrevocably changed. Many people and places I had been involved in no longer involved me and I did different things. I would not trade my children for the world. I think having children can do that to one's thinking.
>
> One question ... are your children close to each other?They are respectful of each other. I didn't do a very good job in the sibling rivalry department. They are four and a half years apart. Funny, the youngest can/did really push the older ones buttons.
>Are you glad you decided on having a second so that they have each other as siblings?
I think when they are older, they will appreciate it, but then, I have/had 4 siblings and I don't really spend any time with them and we all live a long ways away from each other. The old saying, you cant pick your family but you can pick your friends is certainly true.
>That's a big concern for me; I really want Holly to grow up with a brother or sister. Am I placing too much emphasis on that desire?
Possibly, It was important to me too. We, as a couple, made a decision.
> As for me... what do I want? That's a tough one. I guess, if I KNEW that my daughter would be happy as an only child, I would choose to not have another. On the flip side, I remember a mother of an only child telling me she wished she had been able to have another because with one child, the highs are higher and the lows are lower. Ambivalence again. Ugh.My great aunt always told me she regreted not having children. I don't think it matters what kind or how many, really. You can't predict the future. You can only go with your best estimation. My oldest brother, and my oldest son, both said, the parents should have stopped with one. Both are very sarcastic. At the same time I think there is a truth to it, just think, both your parents only paying attention to YOU! lol.
>
> You raised a good point, one I think about often -- will I pass on this mental illness to my daughter? Another reason to consider adoption,Adoption can also harbor unknowns
or not having a second of our own. My husband and I have mood disorders on both sides of our family -- depression, anxiety, OCD and ADD -- to name a few. It scares me to think of my daughter's odds in acquiring some or all of this mix.
>
> I am hoping that, if I decide to have another, I will have built up a support group by that time. I have made some new friends with young kids who I get together with quite often; but I'm not extremely close to any of them -- as far as telling them about my depression/anxiety disorder. Maybe the day will come when I'll be able to open up -- it would so helpful to have friends who knew about my mental illness and still accepted me.You may be surprised to find out some of your new friends also struggle with similar challenges.
>
> Thanks again Susan for your support.
> Fondly,
> CindyYou are welcome, Cindy.
Susan C.
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.