![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by bergamot on May 8, 2001, at 17:08:02
In reply to Re: Forgive, O Lord, posted by Noa on May 8, 2001, at 15:47:57
I'm interested in this thread, but it may take me a while to get my thoughts together into something coherent.
Doo, you mentioned something about becoming psychotic--I'm diagnosed with "psychosis not otherwise specified", so I guess I'm officially psychotic. One thing that I've been thinking about recently is how much "psychosis" is culturally determined.
For example, if I (or perhaps more importantly, my psychiatrist) were a Buddhist, would the thoughts that come to me about the nature of reality be considered correct and indicative of progress along the path?
Can you tell more about the type of therapy you're entering? Is it for "existential" issues? I haven't gotten anywhere with the therapists I've been to, but that may have been because my diagnosis at the time was depression and what they thought would be my "issues" weren't.
Posted by Doo on May 9, 2001, at 11:25:49
In reply to psychosis and existential stuff, posted by bergamot on May 8, 2001, at 17:08:02
> I'm interested in this thread, but it may take me a while to get my thoughts together into something coherent.
>
> Doo, you mentioned something about becoming psychotic--I'm diagnosed with "psychosis not otherwise specified", so I guess I'm officially psychotic. One thing that I've been thinking about recently is how much "psychosis" is culturally determined.
>
> For example, if I (or perhaps more importantly, my psychiatrist) were a Buddhist, would the thoughts that come to me about the nature of reality be considered correct and indicative of progress along the path?I too thought about that, and I think you're right. For instance, I've read some Carlos Castaneda's books, and his master, a Mexican "Sorcerer", does not make any difference between reality and what one perceives. That is, what one perceives is reality, and he must not ask himself what others perceive. So this is just an example, and btw I do not especially recommand those books.
>
> Can you tell more about the type of therapy you're entering? Is it for "existential" issues? I haven't gotten anywhere with the therapists I've been to, but that may have been because my diagnosis at the time was depression and what they thought would be my "issues" weren't.The psychologist I'm seeing told me she sees herself as an "existential-dynamic psychologist", and her approach is based on the works of James F Masterson. http://www.mastersoninstitute.org/ you may want to give it a look.
I want to work on many things, existential pain, my difficulties relating to others, my difficulties taking decisions and finding a professional goal.
I hope you find an approach/therapy that suits you best.
Take care,
Doo
Posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 12:39:34
In reply to psychosis and existential stuff, posted by bergamot on May 8, 2001, at 17:08:02
Hi. Had to jump in here. This is a very interesting thread. My therapy too has been inadequate. Existential issues, for whatever reason, seem to me to be at the heart of my illness. The therps I have talked to seem to basically ignore this & want me to deal mainly with the day to day process of functional living. Granted this is important but if I were to somehow rectify my core issues, I believe everything else would fall into place.
I am constantly plagued with concerns about what we (humans) really are. Are we basically just a developed organism that is directed by chemical reactions& electrical impulses? Obviously this question has been asked many times before, hence (along with a bunch of other reasons) the development of religion. I too have a spiritual void which I know makes things harder for me to deal with. I want terribly to allow myself to put my life in the hands of a higher power as I am so tired of trying to figure it out on my own. I am an electrical engineer. I have a good grasp of physics. My life has revolved around "bullet proof" theories & empirical investigation. It is extremely diificult for me to accept anything on faith alone. I have read several articles that set out to "scientifically" reinforce the teachings in the Bible, but it still requires a significant leap of faith to accept.
I am amazed by what occurs in nature. At times I can almost convince myself that there MUST be some supreme force directing or at least initially triggering this incredible chain of events called creation. I feel good when I am thinking this, but inevtiably the more harsh "realities" of what science truly can prove begins to influence the "logical" mind.
Some say believing in a higher authority is a choice. But how do you make it? I go to church. I have gone to more liberal religious gatherings also, but it all feels alien & hypocritical to me. I have explored alternative spiritual teachings but I just don't get it. They say fear is a great motivator. True. But do I have to become so desperate & afraid that I will convince myself that an all powerful creator is watching over us in this life & the next.(& that there is a next!) That doesn't strike me as the basis for a good relationship on any level.
Sorry this has become such a novel. It is hard for me to get a handle on my true feelings about this & articulate them. It's more of a gut feeling-so I tend to ramble. I have made significant strides in the last several months dealing with my illness. This issue of "what are we, why are we here?" is someting I truly need to address. I guess I should be thankful that I am finally to a point where I have the state of mind to even consider this stuff. Any input, ideas, opinions, advice would sure be welcome. TIA
Kid
> I'm interested in this thread, but it may take me a while to get my thoughts together into something coherent.
>
> Doo, you mentioned something about becoming psychotic--I'm diagnosed with "psychosis not otherwise specified", so I guess I'm officially psychotic. One thing that I've been thinking about recently is how much "psychosis" is culturally determined.
>
> For example, if I (or perhaps more importantly, my psychiatrist) were a Buddhist, would the thoughts that come to me about the nature of reality be considered correct and indicative of progress along the path?
>
> Can you tell more about the type of therapy you're entering? Is it for "existential" issues? I haven't gotten anywhere with the therapists I've been to, but that may have been because my diagnosis at the time was depression and what they thought would be my "issues" weren't.
Posted by stjames on May 9, 2001, at 14:47:26
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff, posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 12:39:34
> Hi. Had to jump in here. This is a very interesting thread. My therapy too has been inadequate. Existential issues, for whatever reason, seem to me to be at the heart of my illness. The therps I have talked to seem to basically ignore this & want me to deal mainly with the day to day process of functional living. Granted this is important but if I were to somehow rectify my core issues, I believe everything else would fall into place.
>James here....
Try reading the German existential writer Herman Hesse. You may find some answers there.
james
Posted by Doo on May 9, 2001, at 17:09:02
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff, posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 12:39:34
Hi Kid,
> Hi. Had to jump in here. This is a very interesting thread. My therapy too has been inadequate. Existential issues, for whatever reason, seem to me to be at the heart of my illness. The therps I have talked to seem to basically ignore this & want me to deal mainly with the day to day process of functional living. Granted this is important but if I were to somehow rectify my core issues, I believe everything else would fall into place.
I understand so much what you mean. Some approachs see existential questionning as it was a 'bug' in the program. They claim that having a satisfying day-to-day living is the key. I think it's okay for some poeple. But for others, there is a limit to that approach. I think we need a space, a time, to explore that 'lack of answer', that painful silence. And finally find our own way to deal with it. A friend of mine has chosen to try psychoanalysis, a special approach (www.gifric.com) based on freud and lacan. She actually works in a centre where they treat 'psychotic' patients with psychoanalysis. Freud and Lacan themselves believed that their approach was not effective for 'psychotics'. But that centre has a special approach which helps the person be responsible, assume their weird ideas, and step towards more autonomy. As for the psychoanalytic process, it does bring a period of crisis, and the aim is to be able to face those crisis by ourselves, gradually. I may one day begin that type of therapy, but it scares me a lot. Bacause I once was so paralysed by the crisis, I don't want to live that again... But I'm afraid I'll have to face it at some times in my life anyway. For the moment, I try to maintain a relatively stable day-to-day life and will see where my therapy leads me.
> I am constantly plagued with concerns about what we (humans) really are. Are we basically just a developed organism that is directed by chemical reactions& electrical impulses?
Urgh. That question sometimes pushes me into total terror and feeling of absurdity - I had a 'psychotic' episode where I was convinced that killing myself was the best I could do for me. I'm really scared it comes back. I don't take antipsychotics and I wish I never have to. I never went to hospital and wish I never have to. In fact I'd like to talk about it and I'm so scared to talk about it because it brings back the 'psychotic' feeling of absurdity and madness I lived 5 years ago while on 'magic' mushrooms.
>Obviously this question has been asked many times before, hence (along with a bunch of other reasons) the development of religion. I too have a spiritual void which I know makes things harder for me to deal with. I want terribly to allow myself to put my life in the hands of a higher power as I am so tired of trying to figure it out on my own. I am an electrical engineer. I have a good grasp of physics. My life has revolved around "bullet proof" theories & empirical investigation. It is extremely diificult for me to accept anything on faith alone. I have read several articles that set out to "scientifically" reinforce the teachings in the Bible, but it still requires a significant leap of faith to accept.
>
I know exactly what you mean. I lived an intense crisis that lasted for long, long months. I went to India, in a state of complete despair, and found a guru, and I had some mystic experiences. But nothing that has calmed my pain. After a couple of years of search for medication and therapy, the crisis is less intense, but still there. I begin to think and accept that it is there to stay, that I have to face it with the help of a good therapist.It's good to hear that I'm not alone asking myself what I am, why I'm here... And not finding any real answer. For the moment, I think part of the answer may be to share that hole.
As for new scientifical evidence that reinforces teachings of the bible, I never heard of that. I heard some vague things about old oriental sayings being reingorced by new findings. But never read any serious works about that. I have read some books about an afterlife, and the NDE's (Near-death-experience), and some facts really shake the logical mind, forcing us to admit that 'geez there really IS something there!'. Unfortunately in the everyday life, this 'something' stays hidden.
> I am amazed by what occurs in nature. At times I can almost convince myself that there MUST be some supreme force directing or at least initially triggering this incredible chain of events called creation. I feel good when I am thinking this, but inevtiably the more harsh "realities" of what science truly can prove begins to influence the "logical" mind.
>
> Some say believing in a higher authority is a choice. But how do you make it?I really have no clue. Being able to make that choice supposes you have a certain faith in something and that that something is trustable. Many pretend this is the best thing we can do.
>I go to church. I have gone to more liberal religious gatherings also, but it all feels alien & hypocritical to me. I have explored alternative spiritual teachings but I just don't get it. They say fear is a great motivator. True. But do I have to become so desperate & afraid that I will convince myself that an all powerful creator is watching over us in this life & the next.(& that there is a next!) That doesn't strike me as the basis for a good relationship on any level.
>
> Sorry this has become such a novel. It is hard for me to get a handle on my true feelings about this & articulate them. It's more of a gut feeling-so I tend to ramble. I have made significant strides in the last several months dealing with my illness. This issue of "what are we, why are we here?" is someting I truly need to address. I guess I should be thankful that I am finally to a point where I have the state of mind to even consider this stuff. Any input, ideas, opinions, advice would sure be welcome. TIA
>
> Kid
>I hope you eventually find your answers (and I wish that for myself too)
oh and what's TIA ?
Read you later,
Doo
Posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 19:38:11
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff » kid47, posted by Doo on May 9, 2001, at 17:09:02
> I hope you eventually find your answers (and I wish that for myself too)
>
> oh and what's TIA ?
>
> Read you later,
>
> Doo
Hey. Thanks for the input. It does help to know there are others who struggle with these types of questions. I sometimes feel guilty for "wasting time" with these issues when there is so much else to do. I tend to obsess about it. Well if being crazy was easy I guess everbody would do it. LOLRe: TIA: Talking in Arabic, Thinking in abstract, Tinsel is attractive, Throw it away, Telling it all, Tearing it apart, Throwingup is awful. Phew!! Actually, Thanks In Advance. Aren't you glad you asked hehehehe.
Kid
Posted by mila on May 9, 2001, at 21:43:31
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff, posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 12:39:34
hi Kid,
you seem to me to be a thirsty person who denies himself 8 full glasses of water everyday, keeping himself on dry diet.
if existential issues seem to be at heart of your illness, then you've got what is called 'creative illness'. which is not an illness, in a sense, that there is nothing wrong with you, as there is nothing wrong with being thirsty. It's time for you to be creative and answer your call. Find yourself someone who can coach you in unleashing your creativity in philosophical arena. It's time you started taking existential, or core issues seriously. anything goes, taking a course or two in college, where you'd be asked to think independently and submit original papers, seeing someone who practices existential or phenomenological analysis (do you know the difference), writing your philosophical autobiography as a legacy for your children, etc. to start going, and to avoid inventing the wheel, familiarize yourself first with what has already been done in research about human nature. Introduction to Personality and Psychotherapy: a theory construction approach by Joseph F. Rychlak might be an excellent beginnig. Beware, however, this text is not for a layperson, it is for someone who really has penchant for serious thinking, for serious questions, and seroius answers.
if you want to put yourself in hands of higher power, do it. Do as you want. the higher power seems to reveal itself in your life in form of 'plaguing you with concerns of what you as a human really are'. These questions definitely have a higher power over you, if you chose the word 'plagued' to characterize the way they manifest themselves in your life. this is your call. how come you haven't been answering it? reading answers by others to their call, or following the way they come in touch with higher power won't do the trick for you, as you have already discovered.
there is nothing 'bullet proof' about physical theories, and i do not mean larger theories swallowing smaller ones, like einstein's thinking swallowed newton's one. I mean, if you follow the development of modern physics, you must have noticed an astounding influx of young talents to what seemed to be a dead field in the last 5-7 years. The theories they come up with are tremendous in just how they differ from what was thought about the nature of the physical reality before. tip: Tuesday editions of The New York Times have Science Times insert. Check it out for regular updates on the latest in physics, philosophy and everything in between. you can access them online, if you cannot get the paper.
it also might be helpful for you to know that existentialism or phenomenology ARE experimental sciences today. They come under names of transcendental phenomenology and existential phenomenology today, and experimental research (empirical investigation) in this area mostly is done by psychologists, ethicists, and psychiatrists.
For scientific reinforcement of teachings of Bible, or other religious texts, or dogmas for that matter, that won't require 'leap of faith' see , for exmple, Maps of Meaning: Architecture of Belief (1999), by Jordan B. Peterson, Ph.D. ( I am doing research with him 'on human nature' at UofT starting this September)
you make a choice first by counting your choices. two choices, believe or not believe is not enough, come up with more than that. Then choose. then you'll choose out of abundance and fit to your tastes, not out of poverty, fear, and desperation.
Consider yourself lucky that you have already got good standing in electical engineering, now move on to philosophy, then bridge the two by exploring what's human. reading advice: The Interpreted World, by Ernesto Spinelli.
Just realize, that you must be an intellectual and emotional giant, if higher forces chose to plague YOU with concerns about human nature. People like you are quite rare, but then again, world is full of unrealized geniuses. Your choice.
Good to know you, kid. I am a recovering electrical engineer myself. Have been plaqued by existential questions, ugh... since age 14 or so. tried to escape into hard science first, but when became creative there (innovation in electical design), was swept into the sea of psychology and technology of innovative process itself. The rest is history.
Grow Big, kid. discover everything there is about happiness, death, and the remainder of life. Do not restrict yourself, to listening, say. do not reduce yourself to reading, write. Do nor resign yourself to logic and gut feelings, discover Heart. sure it will take some time to adjust your life to its beat. as Twain said so nicely, "A lie can run around the world six times while the truth is still trying to put on its pants" :)
push the grass apart and lay your finger on God's heart.
best
mila
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 6:10:00
In reply to Re: Forgive, O Lord » NikkiT2, posted by Doo on May 8, 2001, at 13:03:12
Thanks both for you answers.. I'm still exploring this area alot, but am now sure there is something out there wanting to fill me... just got to find exact;ly what it is. I've always been interested in the theological side of religion, and have been a regular church goer at times... but neve felt this way before...
Right this second, I am in my ofice, over looking one fo Londons famous cematries (lots of famous writers buried there and things) the sun is shining, the trees in leaf, and it it is all so peaceful, but a definate spiritual peacefulness.
Dunno whether this is all part fo the "illness" (severe personality disorder, possibly Schizotypal) or real life though, thats why I want to investigate it so much..
#
nikki xxx
Posted by mila on May 10, 2001, at 6:56:46
In reply to Re: Forgive, O Lord Doo Mila, posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 6:10:00
Nikki,
thanks for answering.
wow, severe shizotypal, how odd can you be. I would never guess judging from your posts. Do you agree with the diagnosis yourself? Do you know the criteria? (socially isolated, suspicioussness, odd beliefs, ideas of reference, magical thinking, illusions, paranoid thoughts, little emotional expression, passive and unengaged, hypersensitive to critisicm, etc.) Do you have relatives with schizophrenia?There is a book about successful therapy with a patient who had been labeled 'schizoid'. Have you read it? It is written by both therapist and patient: Every Day Gets a Little Closer, by Irv Yalom and Ginny Elkin. If you like it, or recognize yourself in it, you can try existential counselling/therapy. Luckily for you, England is the only place in the world where they have a school specifically for training this kind of therapists.
you can contact Dr.Ernesto Spinelli at School of Psychotherapy and Counselling, Regent's College, London, and ask for referral. Spinelli describes his work in Tales of Un-knowing (1997). I think that American existential therapists have a goal of changing the person relying on existent resources and incorporation some new ones, while their British colleagues believe it is impossible, and strive for clarification and confrontation of the problems of life relying on resources already available to the person.
this morning in Toronto is also beautiful, promises a gorgeous spring day.
love
mila
Posted by Greg on May 10, 2001, at 7:34:26
In reply to If it feels good, do it(kid47), posted by mila on May 9, 2001, at 21:43:31
Mila,
"a recovering electrical engineer", that is one of the most priceless things I've ever seen written here! I'm a Doc Control specialist for an engineering firm and not a day goes by that I don't wish at least one of our engineers would consider recovery... :)
Thanks for the smile!
Greg
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 11:12:58
In reply to thanks Nikki, posted by mila on May 10, 2001, at 6:56:46
oooh, Regents college is quite near me!!!
As strange as it may seem, alot fo the criteria from schizotypal do match me.. I have just beocme so adept at hiding it all, it second nature not to reveal whats really going on inside etc... One day I would love to just open my mouth and all this crap in my brain to come flooding out.. maybe then I can start from scratch and not be struggling for every breath as I seem to be now a days.
Toronto is so lovely... I had a wonderful holiday visiting relatives there and really hope one day to make it back again... And maybe even over come my fear of heights and see the views from the upper bit in the CN tower (went to the middle bit which was fun!)!! I did go up to the higher bit, but sat outside the lift crying with fear while my mum and elderly great aunt wandered around fine!!!
Enjoy spring!!
nikki xxxx
> Nikki,
> thanks for answering.
> wow, severe shizotypal, how odd can you be. I would never guess judging from your posts. Do you agree with the diagnosis yourself? Do you know the criteria? (socially isolated, suspicioussness, odd beliefs, ideas of reference, magical thinking, illusions, paranoid thoughts, little emotional expression, passive and unengaged, hypersensitive to critisicm, etc.) Do you have relatives with schizophrenia?
>
> There is a book about successful therapy with a patient who had been labeled 'schizoid'. Have you read it? It is written by both therapist and patient: Every Day Gets a Little Closer, by Irv Yalom and Ginny Elkin. If you like it, or recognize yourself in it, you can try existential counselling/therapy. Luckily for you, England is the only place in the world where they have a school specifically for training this kind of therapists.
>
> you can contact Dr.Ernesto Spinelli at School of Psychotherapy and Counselling, Regent's College, London, and ask for referral. Spinelli describes his work in Tales of Un-knowing (1997). I think that American existential therapists have a goal of changing the person relying on existent resources and incorporation some new ones, while their British colleagues believe it is impossible, and strive for clarification and confrontation of the problems of life relying on resources already available to the person.
>
> this morning in Toronto is also beautiful, promises a gorgeous spring day.
>
> love
> mila
Posted by Doo on May 10, 2001, at 12:11:04
In reply to Re: thanks Nikki » mila, posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 11:12:58
> As strange as it may seem, alot fo the criteria from schizotypal do match me.. I have just beocme so adept at hiding it all, it second nature not to reveal whats really going on inside etc... One day I would love to just open my mouth and all this crap in my brain to come flooding out.. maybe then I can start from scratch and not be struggling for every breath as I seem to be now a days.
Few! This is strange enough reading this, it's as if I was reading my own words. I have never had any 'strict' diagnostic. I never really wanted one anyway. But reading all kinds of stuff leads me to think I would fit in 'schizotyical', 'schizoaffective disorder' or 'borderline personnality disorder'.
> >(socially isolated, suspicioussness, odd beliefs, ideas of reference, magical thinking, illusions, paranoid thoughts, little emotional expression, passive and unengaged, hypersensitive to critisicm, etc.)
Well, it is always difficult to qualify my own beliefs as 'odd'. Sure they can seem 'odd' to poeple who don't have the same theoretical background as me (lots of readings in psychology, psychoanalysis, bio-psychology). The other things seem to reflect well the suffering part of me, at a certain level. Paranoid thoughts, illusions *not hallucinations*, and magical thinking happen to me sometimes, not all day long. Suspiciousness is definitively part of me. It's a hard thing to overcome. I must often tell myself 'okay, this person is not going to hurt me, I'm not in a danger of any kind'. Relating to others in general is hard. Sometimes it's like I don't know how, and too often blame myself about it. But I know a little more now why I'm like this. I didn't have much space in my family to explore relating to others. Now I gotta deal with that, and I feel like I hide so many things to others... I too would like to open the mouth and let it all out. I don't really know what would come out, and that's why sometimes I think about psychoanalysis, just to let it all out, to verbalize, to express the unexpressed.
About diagnostics: we must not identify with the 'illness', and we have to remind ourselves who we really are, not all white, not all black, but in shades of grey.
On these thoughts, I wish you a good day (or night)
A feeling-a-little-better Doo
Posted by Doo on May 10, 2001, at 12:27:13
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff » Doo, posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 19:38:11
> Hey. Thanks for the input. It does help to know there are others who struggle with these types of questions.
I also feel it helps. It's a kind of relief 'boy I'm not the only one!'
>I sometimes feel guilty for "wasting time" with these issues when there is so much else to do. I tend to obsess about it. Well if being crazy was easy I guess everbody would do it. LOL
LOL
> Re: TIA: Talking in Arabic, Thinking in abstract, Tinsel is attractive, Throw it away, Telling it all, Tearing it apart, Throwingup is awful. Phew!! Actually, Thanks In Advance. Aren't you glad you asked hehehehe.
Truly Insomniacs Association,
Testicule Inflamation Assault, (ouch!)
(this is hard in english, I love to do this stuff in french!)
Tourtières Invertébrées Amoindries
Terreur Impossiblement Affamée
Tentatives Inopportunes et AbortivesSorry, untranslatable, at least for me!
Bye!
Doo
Posted by kid47 on May 10, 2001, at 15:58:51
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff, posted by kid47 on May 9, 2001, at 12:39:34
Hi. Thanx to all for your insight & suggestions. My first stop is Barnes & Noble (bookstore) to check out some of these authors. I do feel the need to investigate this stuff. But I also feel the need to eat cookies & ice cream. A little bit & I feel better, comforted. Too much & I get sick. So I hope I don't overdue( obsess about) it. Does that make any sense? Oh well. Thanx again!!
Kid
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 16:52:23
In reply to schizotypes » NikkiT2, posted by Doo on May 10, 2001, at 12:11:04
Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better Doo.. hope talking about it all has helped.. I know this thread has been good for me..
nikki xx
Posted by bergamot on May 10, 2001, at 19:35:33
In reply to Re: schizotypes » Doo, posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 16:52:23
I also recommend adding Kierkegaard to your reading list (who was working on the reading list?). Oh, and Paul Tillich is good--try _The Courage to Be_.
I'm pretty out of it from increasing the seroquel dose recently, but I'll try to be coherent.
Even if thinking about existential matters is supposed to be an open-ended search for truth, there are answers that society expects. and if you come to the "wrong" ones (or the "wrong" ones come to you), it becomes a pathology rather than a religious or spiritual life.
A few weeks ago I was half-watching some show about some psychotic killer, and I realized that what he said about the reasoning behind killing the kid made sense to me, for I have had the same thoughts about killing myself. though "had the thoughts" doesn't quite describe it. the thoughts were more thrust upon me (to misquote Shakespeare). I missed the end, so I still don't know if he was judged to be insane. I'm usually pretty good at recognizing when my thoughts would be called psychotic according to the standards of society, but to have them displayed in a context of criminal insanity was somewhat distressing.
but when the so-called psychotic thoughts are the ones that are the most real, the most true, the most revealing about the nature of the universe, I can't just dismiss them as results of neurotransmitter imbalances. It's the strong conviction of being right, of knowing more, of going beyond everyday knowledge and relationships and morality that makes me even yearn for the greater depth and clarity of the "psychosis". I can see how my doctor would diagnose me with a psychotic disorder; I haven't lost my grasp on societal mores--I just have, at times, access to something greater and more fundametal than that.
-----
how does one find someone who does existential therapy? I'm moving to a city much larger than where I currently am next month, so I'll have tons more therapist options.
Posted by Doo on May 11, 2001, at 12:17:16
In reply to Re: schizotypes » Doo, posted by NikkiT2 on May 10, 2001, at 16:52:23
> Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better Doo.. hope talking about it all has helped.. I know this thread has been good for me..
>
> nikki xxActually, I'm glad this thread had such a 'success'. It helped me too.
I never had the courage to discuss my existential questions as far as this. I feel some poeple here know what it means to be deeply troubled by those questions, and even more by the answers we sometimes find.
I think the more the intellect is far from the emotional reality, the more dangerous it becomes. What makes sense in this world cannot be purely logical. It is a matter of need and fullfilling the needs. I realize that in my worst moments, my intellect was absolutely negating, rejecting all my emotional reality. So I think I have to learn to respect, accept my emotional needs, my emotional reality (and also my personality, which is reliant on that reality). That seems to be such a hard work, since what I learned from others in my early life was that my needs and emotions were not something that deserved any respect or consideration. Since then my reality is aimed on 'being okay', avoiding rejection (which eventually causes it), and geez it's hard to see what a mess they made inside of me. I always have trouble talking about that because I fear poeple will judge me acting like a victim. But I know what is true for me, so I won't accept being judged.
Well, I could not have guessed I would end up talking about all this!
Read you later,
Doo.
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 13, 2001, at 16:26:37
In reply to Re: schizotypes, posted by Doo on May 11, 2001, at 12:17:16
I spoke to my psychologist / therapist about all this... al she followed with is she can'rt see me anymore... ho hum!!!
but she has given me contact details for more info about all of this at the Regents school of therapy and counselling in London... princess Di had a therapist there she thinks might help me!!!! Could be interesting!
Thanks for opening us to us Doo!
nikki xx
> > Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better Doo.. hope talking about it all has helped.. I know this thread has been good for me..
> >
> > nikki xx
>
> Actually, I'm glad this thread had such a 'success'. It helped me too.
>
> I never had the courage to discuss my existential questions as far as this. I feel some poeple here know what it means to be deeply troubled by those questions, and even more by the answers we sometimes find.
>
> I think the more the intellect is far from the emotional reality, the more dangerous it becomes. What makes sense in this world cannot be purely logical. It is a matter of need and fullfilling the needs. I realize that in my worst moments, my intellect was absolutely negating, rejecting all my emotional reality. So I think I have to learn to respect, accept my emotional needs, my emotional reality (and also my personality, which is reliant on that reality). That seems to be such a hard work, since what I learned from others in my early life was that my needs and emotions were not something that deserved any respect or consideration. Since then my reality is aimed on 'being okay', avoiding rejection (which eventually causes it), and geez it's hard to see what a mess they made inside of me. I always have trouble talking about that because I fear poeple will judge me acting like a victim. But I know what is true for me, so I won't accept being judged.
>
> Well, I could not have guessed I would end up talking about all this!
>
> Read you later,
>
> Doo.
Posted by good4u on May 14, 2001, at 8:58:19
In reply to Re: psychosis and existential stuff, posted by stjames on May 9, 2001, at 14:47:26
> > Hi. Had to jump in here. This is a very interesting thread. My therapy too has been inadequate. Existential issues, for whatever reason, seem to me to be at the heart of my illness. The therps I have talked to seem to basically ignore this & want me to deal mainly with the day to day process of functional living. Granted this is important but if I were to somehow rectify my core issues, I believe everything else would fall into place.
>James, I feel VERY much the same way. Question for U...is it that without "knowing" what we actually "are" and why we are here, you feel you do not know what you're motivations "should be" or "where u should go from here?"
> >
>
> James here....
>
> Try reading the German existential writer Herman Hesse. You may find some answers there.
>
> james
Posted by Doo on May 15, 2001, at 11:37:10
In reply to Re: schizotypes » Doo, posted by NikkiT2 on May 13, 2001, at 16:26:37
> I spoke to my psychologist / therapist about all this... al she followed with is she can'rt see me anymore... ho hum!!!
Really? How's that?
> but she has given me contact details for more info about all of this at the Regents school of therapy and counselling in London... princess Di had a therapist there she thinks might help me!!!! Could be interesting!
I wish this one's a good one!
I had my third psy appointment yesterday. I find it very hard to let my 'paranoia' go away and put my trust in her. I think she's ok. But my head and my fears don't agree very often. I'm still questioning myself about why this person has chosen that profession, does she have some subtle ways of controling or taking power over her clients, etc. I'm very suspicious. I think that belongs to me, but it's hard to keep that in mind and go on with a little trust.
> Thanks for opening us to us Doo!
>
> nikki xxWell I'm glad you appreciate. Thank's to you too.
Doo.
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 15, 2001, at 16:27:35
In reply to psychotherapy, suspiciousness..., posted by Doo on May 15, 2001, at 11:37:10
> > I spoke to my psychologist / therapist about all this... al she followed with is she can'rt see me anymore... ho hum!!!
>
> Really? How's that?Well, kinda long.. but I'm in the UK and we have appaling mental health care, with waiting lists about 12 months alot of the time. I managed to get some private appointments through an organisation connected to my work, but then I got an appointment with an NHS (NAtional Health Service) one so she had to stop seeing me.
Saw the NHS one today, and he leaves on friday and won't be replaced - So now I have no one again.
On verge of giving up!!!
nikki
>
> > but she has given me contact details for more info about all of this at the Regents school of therapy and counselling in London... princess Di had a therapist there she thinks might help me!!!! Could be interesting!
>
> I wish this one's a good one!
>
> I had my third psy appointment yesterday. I find it very hard to let my 'paranoia' go away and put my trust in her. I think she's ok. But my head and my fears don't agree very often. I'm still questioning myself about why this person has chosen that profession, does she have some subtle ways of controling or taking power over her clients, etc. I'm very suspicious. I think that belongs to me, but it's hard to keep that in mind and go on with a little trust.
>
> > Thanks for opening us to us Doo!
> >
> > nikki xx
>
> Well I'm glad you appreciate. Thank's to you too.
>
> Doo.
Posted by Doo on May 15, 2001, at 17:43:41
In reply to Re: psychotherapy, suspiciousness... » Doo, posted by NikkiT2 on May 15, 2001, at 16:27:35
> Well, kinda long.. but I'm in the UK and we have appaling mental health care, with waiting lists about 12 months alot of the time. I managed to get some private appointments through an organisation connected to my work, but then I got an appointment with an NHS (NAtional Health Service) one so she had to stop seeing me.
>
> Saw the NHS one today, and he leaves on friday and won't be replaced - So now I have no one again.
>
> On verge of giving up!!!
>
> nikkiI hope you don't. Even if I have lots of frustrations regarding the therapies and all, I believe that it is so benefic. Almost never easy, but just 'having this time' for us is very important. It's a time where we can speak about all the crap we ruminate during the day. If we don't have a space and time to do it, that crap becomes heavier and heavier. It's been almost a year since I did my last therapy and now that I started again, I feel that there was something very important that was missing. This time. This space. So if you feel you have some benefits from it, please don't give up! I hope I don't sound too fatherish ;) (is that a word?)
Take care,
Doo bedoo
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 17, 2001, at 13:09:47
In reply to Re: psychotherapy, suspiciousness..., posted by Doo on May 15, 2001, at 17:43:41
Its not that I don't want this help, it just seems that every time they offer me some hope, the rip it out from back under me again... nothing is wokring out right and I just so want to feel better, but have no money to go private, so ahve to put up with them messing me about all the time...
nikki x >
> > Well, kinda long.. but I'm in the UK and we have appaling mental health care, with waiting lists about 12 months alot of the time. I managed to get some private appointments through an organisation connected to my work, but then I got an appointment with an NHS (NAtional Health Service) one so she had to stop seeing me.
> >
> > Saw the NHS one today, and he leaves on friday and won't be replaced - So now I have no one again.
> >
> > On verge of giving up!!!
> >
> > nikki
>
> I hope you don't. Even if I have lots of frustrations regarding the therapies and all, I believe that it is so benefic. Almost never easy, but just 'having this time' for us is very important. It's a time where we can speak about all the crap we ruminate during the day. If we don't have a space and time to do it, that crap becomes heavier and heavier. It's been almost a year since I did my last therapy and now that I started again, I feel that there was something very important that was missing. This time. This space. So if you feel you have some benefits from it, please don't give up! I hope I don't sound too fatherish ;) (is that a word?)
>
> Take care,
>
> Doo bedoo
Posted by Doo on May 20, 2001, at 10:18:41
In reply to Re: psychotherapy, suspiciousness... » Doo, posted by NikkiT2 on May 17, 2001, at 13:09:47
> Its not that I don't want this help, it just seems that every time they offer me some hope, the rip it out from back under me again... nothing is wokring out right and I just so want to feel better, but have no money to go private, so ahve to put up with them messing me about all the time...
Yeah that's not so cool. It's really up to you, but I think if u keep up with this, something good will happen.
Take care,
Doo
Posted by bergamot on May 23, 2001, at 18:35:47
In reply to Re: psychotherapy, suspiciousness... » NikkiT2, posted by Doo on May 20, 2001, at 10:18:41
anyone interested in continuing the more philosophical discussion at the beginning of this thread? at the time, some people expressed interest, but the thread's emphasis changed...
so maybe this should be a new thread, but I don't want to start something if nobody would get involved.
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