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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2010, at 11:22:42
Tuesday evening, I was thinking about therapy when I had this weird experience.
All of a sudden, it seemed like I was switching perspectives of myself in relationship to my therapist, and even to others. It was like those bad special effects shots from seventies crime dramas, where the camera rapidly shifts from closeup to mid distance to far away, or shifts camera angles. It felt real, but also sort of dreamy. For just a moment I understood what it meant, and it all made so much *sense*. There was a definite feeling that this was very important.
Then after a minute or so, it was gone. I felt shaken and anxious, but the insight had slipped from my fingers.
On the one hand, it was a very weird session. My therapist had just come back from his conference full of energy and almost giddy-happy. He wasn't at all himself. The energy was mainly inner directed, and it was clear that his focus hadn't shifted to clients yet. He said, as he not unfrequently does, some things that some clients might find insulting, and that I usually find reassuring (in that I was sure he was being honest). He knows I find it reassuring, and we generally find it amusing, but it wasn't quite as amusing. And he sort of shared his trip with me, which I really enjoyed. We also talked about me, but since my thoughts were on my reaction to his trip, it all kind of came back to the same place.
But on the other hand, it felt an awful lot like those experiences I have when I am in withdrawal from meds that I call my temporal lobe thingies. Like a short period of time where perception is off, like straight lines look curved. Or like the time when I really really understood what Amazing Grace meant and why I really was a wretched sinner (a concept I usually reject) and why it really wasn't a bad thing. But that was just a few moments too, and then it passed. I think it was like Obsidian's deja vu experiences. For me, those experiences often come with a feeling of profundity and importance. Yet I know that they actually are just a byproduct of my brain withdrawing from anti-epileptic mood stabilizers.
I'm not withdrawing from anything at the moment, and while I'm under stress at work, it's not more stress than I often feel. So a temporal lobe thingy doesn't sound all that likely.
I told my therapist all about it, and he said that it reminded him of that scene from "A Beautiful Mind" where the schizophrenic genius figured out his new theory in a flash of insight that was shown on screen as an understanding coming from.. oh drat I forget. But something about watching people relate? I watched the movie once when it first came out, but it was too disturbing for me to watch again. No of course, he said, I wasn't schizophrenic. But that insight sometimes can come in flashes. He said to think it over for a few weeks and see if it still makes sense. I told him that it already didn't make sense. Whatever insight I had disappeared with the experience. So he said that maybe it was just a brain f*rt.
Obviously it's still bothering me. Because as much as I don't think it meant anything, I have this nasty feeling that it does. And while I don't remember what the insight was, I do remember the perspective shifts. They seemed to be telling me that I'm not who I think I am in relation to others - particularly my therapist. That either my relationship with him (and others) is shifting and my understanding of that is lagging, or that I have been wrong all along. But my insight into precisely how or why is just gone from my grasp.
What do you think? Insight or temporal lobe malfunction?
Posted by floatingbridge on March 13, 2010, at 12:30:07
In reply to Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2010, at 11:22:42
Ummm. I'm not sure there is a difference between flash of insight and a temporal lobe 'event'. Who can tell. What I find interesting is the discomfort level this is causing, the sense of being 'wrong all along' or something like that.
Maybe your relationship with your T is shifting, and maybe that could be alright. Insight into the nature of reality (whatever that is) includes, I would think, discomfort because of the disregard for one's ego or sense of self.
My quick two cents. And BTW, I don't find flashes of insight always a happy happy event myself.
Posted by rnny on March 13, 2010, at 16:49:38
In reply to Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2010, at 11:22:42
Well, being I have had numerous of the experiences you describe, I would have to say insight since I have had a brain scan in recent years from when I slipped on ice and everything was normal.
Posted by obsidian on March 13, 2010, at 22:58:30
In reply to Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2010, at 11:22:42
did it feel physical, like you were "caught" in it for lack of a better word.
and/or
did it feel like it was almost coming to something, but it never really got there, but just slipped away?
Posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2010, at 23:52:22
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on March 13, 2010, at 22:58:30
Like a thought? You are on the same meds right? Haven't been following this board. Phillipa
Posted by kaylabear on March 14, 2010, at 16:19:12
In reply to Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2010, at 11:22:42
It sounds like depersonalization and yes, no worries about schitzophrenia.
I wouldn't call it a malfunction, but more like a form of anxiety that can happen from overstimulation whether it be emotional, auditory, or just in general. Medication withdrawal can lead to the same reaction.
Although I don't know the physiology behind depersonalization, dissociation comes about from a release of chemicals in the brain. Maybe it is similar?
I have experienced dp from time to time in response to emotional distress and I was confused about it too. Now that I've learned more about it, its not so scary.
There's a thread on this forum that lists similar experiences that might be helpful for you.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 16:59:28
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by kaylabear on March 14, 2010, at 16:19:12
Thank you, Kaylabear.
For some strange reason, I didn't associate it with depersonalization although I've experienced it. Maybe because it wasn't connected with the physical world around me. But when I think about it, there are a heck of a lot of similarities. One of the very strange things about depersonalization is the sense of a shift in perspective.
Well, that would make me feel better. It's well within my normal response to stress - even less than overwhelming stress.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:00:53
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2010, at 23:52:22
I haven't changed my meds for ages, thank heavens, although what psych meds I'm on are as needed, so I fiddle with the dosages.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:04:50
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on March 13, 2010, at 22:58:30
It does feel like a physical thing. Almost like a pressure or an... arresting? maybe? If that makes sense? And it felt just as physical when it passed.
And I'm pretty sure there was a moment, just a moment, where I did understand it all, but it was gone before I could grasp it.
I do feel better thinking of it as an episode of depersonalization. I've never experienced the other except when withdrawing from anticonvulsants when it really wasn't all that meaningful in terms of my diagnosis.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:05:28
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on March 13, 2010, at 22:58:30
Or of course pre-migraine. I ignore anything that precedes a migraine.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:06:58
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by rnny on March 13, 2010, at 16:49:38
I think I'll happily consider it a variation on depersonalization, and let it go. :)
Do you think yours might be depersonalization as well?
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:20:15
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on March 13, 2010, at 12:30:07
I suppose the two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. At least, not if it was an instance of depersonalization.
Very likely an insight about change in my relationship to my therapist would cause enough anxiety to bring on depersonalization/derealization.
I hate change in the best of times. And the sort of change that this would imply would scare me most of all.
It had been a very strange session. My therapy may be a bit different because of the length of time and unusual circumstances we've been through. But in general, we're both models of propriety and boundaries.
I have this saying in therapy. I have told my therapist that I disliked this or that pdoc or professional because they didn't stay in their seat. At first he didn't really understand why I put it that way, since it doesn't actually involve any physical movement. But he came back from a seminar once saying "I thought of you when this one presenter was on. He didn't stay in his seat." I think maybe he was feeling so energized from his conference that on Tuesday maybe he didn't quite stay in his seat. And I didn't feel like his therapee daughter so much as a friendly acquaintance.
But by Friday we were both back in our proper places. So maybe it was just a passing fancy.
Posted by kaylabear on March 14, 2010, at 17:39:53
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » kaylabear, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 16:59:28
Dinah, I don't want to downplay a potential insight-i know how rewarding those can be! Dont get me wrong...
But yeah, if you are used to your T being the stable (and perhaps less energetic?) person he is-his behavior during that session could certainly put your mind in unconscious fear mode, which may have led to anxiety/dp feelings, especially if your parent or parents were very unpredictable caretakers.
Or-consider an abruptly shifting ego state resulting from the transference-which could be an insight, or rather, a source of an insight.
I know with my T, I have been consciously aware of my fear that he will somehow change. But he never does and the fear has lessened. Considering that, and the fact that I notice even subtle differences in his body language, speech, etc, if he showed up for session with a completely different demeanor, I'd probably have a panic attack. (!)
Posted by rnny on March 14, 2010, at 19:50:23
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe? » rnny, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2010, at 17:06:58
Emotions, both conscious and unconscious bring on alot of physical sensations. That is what I think it is.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 16, 2010, at 10:36:12
In reply to Re: Weird experience. Insight or temporal lobe?, posted by kaylabear on March 14, 2010, at 17:39:53
Kaylabear, nice to see you!
This is the end of the thread.
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