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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 14:35:40
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
It's very hard for someone outside to know what's happening -- how much is you, how much is your T. How long have you been seeing her? I ask because if you've been seeing her for a while, it would be good to at least say goodbye over a few sessions, rather than abruptly ending.
I recently stopped seeing my T of five years and we ended over a period of six sessions. But that was a happy ending.
Posted by ebo4ny on January 24, 2010, at 14:56:52
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
In your last post you wrote that you were afraid that she was going to terminate therapeutic relationship with you. This seemed to be creating a lot of anxiety for you. I don't know all the details here, but is it possible that you are trying to get her before she can get you? Have the circumstances changed significantly since you last posted that thread?
I could just be personalizing because this is something I have a tendency to do in relationships where i feel vulnerable so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
Posted by Willful on January 24, 2010, at 15:54:49
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
I also want to say that none of us can evaluate what's best-- but I wouldn't even think of ending the relationship with your T without working on these feelings with her.
Transference isn't just positive, there's also negative transference, which usually doesn't manifest itself right away-- but comes after a while, when a T disappoints or frustrates you a lot. So I wouldn't say your transference is over, but rather that you've shifted to a more negative mode. One reason it's important to stick with it, when that happens, is that people disappoint us all the time-- and presumably the important disappointments in your history are a big part of what you might reexperience in a milder and more manageable form with your T-- and then can work through in a more real way.
If your T is still reassuring you that she doesn't intend to end, I would take her word. It would be really unthinkable that she would say that while planning to make up some excuse to do so--especially while you in an intensive treatment at her suggestion.
I got the feeling that you're often very worried about this-- and probably this is part of that sense of not being able to trust anyone-- to be there.
So while I don't really know the situation, my instincts (based on my experience) would be to think it wouldn't be at all good to plan to end things now.
Willful
Posted by Mystickangaroo on January 24, 2010, at 16:42:45
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
Tough Love here. ( I am a champion avoider so this really all about me)
How many bridges have you crossed to be thinking about returning to work??
Get your butt and your brain back into the IOP. that's where the help is NOW. Confusing yourself about which T is a big distraction form the reality of NOW. What stops you from talking to the team in the IOP? You can say whatever you like to them. It is not like you are ever going to see them again. Let them do their job of helping you to a better place. ok the may not be the perfect team for you. but they know what they are doing. Telling yourself you can only trust one person is not true. I know that because you can ask babble for feedback.
Hope I have not been too blunt. I don't want to hurt your feelings. Life is not easy. Be good to yourself. Be honest with yourself.
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 20:22:33
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 14:35:40
I've been seeing her since July 09. I do want to see her at least twice more, but whether I end it with her depends on how she handles seeing me again and whether or not she'll continue to be confusing, contradictory, and treating me like a liar.
I don't think I would be angry with her and end it badly, I just wish it didn't have to go this way, so I wonder if it's just me running away from a hard situation again.
Thanks for the input!
-Verloren
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 20:27:43
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by ebo4ny on January 24, 2010, at 14:56:52
Hmm, I think you may be on to something there...
I was really upset she would terminate and I hate feeling like I'm at her mercy. Why should I have to be so dependent on her when she could just cast me aside so readily?
So I think you're right. This thinking I've been doing over the past few days has me feeling like I want out so that way I'M calling the shots, not her. It is, after all, MY therapy. I determined when it began, who I would see, so it's only right that I should determine when it ends.
Wow, thanks. Didn't really think of it that way until just now.
-Verloren
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 20:42:07
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Willful on January 24, 2010, at 15:54:49
I guess I'm so worried and yes very vulnerable as well. I just want to protect myself. She was so contradictory that I can't help but believe she will mislead me again. I worry that I can't trust her word because she has changed her mind 3 times already and it's obvious to me that she doesn't trust me when I tell her I do not have a substance abuse problem. After 6 months in therapy with her, I had just started to let my guard down and let her see the "real me". She responded by pushing me into the io program and suggesting that I don't fit into her regular client profile.
I am confused and I do worry about this a lot. I thought I was "allowed" to show my true self in therapy. But my true self scared my T and caused her to push me toward intensive help. Am I really THAT screwed up? Gosh.Is it possible to regain that lost trust?
How long should I stick with it and try to work things through?
Thanks Willful, you've given me some food for thought.
-Verloren
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 21:10:42
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Mystickangaroo on January 24, 2010, at 16:42:45
Thanks for the tough love warning
As for work, my job provides my benefits, ie. insurance, which pays for things like therapy, iops, and dental cleanings.
I am out of fmla time, which means my job can (and my boss HATES me, so that's a very likely can) fire me. Once fired, I will have no benefits. No more teeth cleanings. No more iops. And no more therapy.
Even the iop will kick me out once I can't pay their fees and I don't want to rack up med bills.But I'm getting ahead of myself and away from the point. The point is, I need to go back and keep a job that pays for all this. The iop has evening hours that I can do after work. But I need to not give my evil boss the opportunity to fire me. And I would lose that lawsuit, I've worked with our lawyers; they are cutthroat.
(Possible TRIGGER in next section)
Now about that iop. Yeah, some think I'm just being stubborn, but I'm not. I went which was more than I ever wanted to. I've lasted almost 2 weeks, longer than they said I should at least try it.
(Begin TRIGGER)
When I am there and I hear the other women talking I literally want to take a sharp object, jab them then jab myself to end all our pain. I fantasize about it CONSTANTLY while there. I picture it all in great detail. I don't necessarily want to but I can't stop thinking about it and I'm not sure what causes such extreme urges.
In my diary they have us maintain, my worst days are the days I go there. I understand iop is meant to help, but if my SI and self harm urges are flying through the roof, then it's not the program for me. Yes, I did tell them that I feel this way and they just smile and say thanks for coming back. They literally thank a homicidal thought obsessed, disturbed person for coming back.
I want to take my knitting supplies in with me the next time and with those metal needles...well...(end TRIGGER)
As for the "team" at iop, I like them just fine. It's the other people in group that I can't deal with. And it is very possible that I would run into a group member in one of my social interactions. You never know what the person working in the pod next to you is going through. One of those people could be the wife of my future boss. (yes, my name is THAT unique. Yes, I would be easily identifiable)Plus I do belong to several women's groups. (now I'm just sounding paranoid, I know it)It's hard being honest with myself because my feelings always conflict with my rational brain. I hope I can get through this safely. I know that babblers will be here to help.
Thanks, no hurt feelings (well maybe one, one hurt feeling. The other feelings are fine.)
-Verloren
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 21:10:56
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't... » Willful, posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 20:42:07
I think your belief that she "pushed you into IOP" because she couldn't handle you is a problem. When I started seeing my T, he insisted I go to an IOP also. I had too many problems to be dealt with in a once a week therapy session and he knew it. It's ethical and good that a T seeks outside help for you when you need it. IOP's can keep us safe and stable while we go through hard times. It's not something wrong with you, or that your T doesn't want to deal with you, it's just being realistic about the level of care you need. I've had times where my T insisted I go inpatient for a period of time. I needed that level of care.
Did your T tell you why she thought you needed the IOP? If not, can you ask her? The idea that she did it to find an excuse to terminate you is unlikely. It's unethical for T's to terminate patients unless there is some real problem and even then, they're supposed to help you find alternative treatment.
Is it possible you're still in love with this Ada and are looking for excuses to leave your current T for her?
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 21:27:37
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 21:10:56
How long were you in the iop? How did you feel about it when you first went? I feel very angry and volatile when I am there. Does that go away, or am I unique in those feelings?
I don't really see the safety feature because I can basically do whatever I want when I'm not there. The only different thing is the diary upkeep. If I can get that type of update with my regular T during our twice a week sessions, then I think it would be more beneficial. Additionally, in iop I go 3 times a week for 3 hours. Of that time, only 15 min each day and two 30 minute sessions on Friday, are allotted to me to speak about my issues. The rest of the time, I'm listening to everyone else. So that's 1 hour & 45 min. versus the 2 hours of all me time I get with my T.
Not sure if your iop was structured differently.
I do love Ada, but I've been hesitant to say that. It's because something in her completely connected with me in the first 5 minutes of seeing her. I immediately started feeling. Have you ever had that? To have held everything in for so long, pretending to feel, pretending to be happy, going along with life and the boom! To actually feel, in the moment, to have those emotions so strongly pour forth. She was intoxicating. Not with beauty or any other such thing. But that she was the right conductor for my train of feelings at that moment. Yes, I definitely miss that. If you've ever felt that way, then I think you may understand.
I'm in quite a pickle, aren't I?
-Verloren
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 22:03:04
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't... » emmanuel98, posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 21:27:37
> How long were you in the iop? How did you feel about it when you first went? I feel very angry and volatile when I am there. Does that go away, or am I unique in those feelings?
I was in, actually, a partial hospitalization program and I HATED it. All women, so much angst and whining that I wasn't used to at all. But my T told me that if I didn't stay, he wouldn't see me anymore, so I stayed and ended up getting a lot out of it.
There's value (or can be) in listening to other people, learning to feel compassion for others helps us feel compassion for ourselves, which is, ultimately, the goal of therapy. So the value of an IOP is not simply the time spent on yourself, but the time spent in group, learning from others.
I can understand your reaction to Ada. But the situation is fraught. You saw Ada, why? As a consultant, right? Why were you going for a consultation?
>
> I don't really see the safety feature because I can basically do whatever I want when I'm not there. The only different thing is the diary upkeep. If I can get that type of update with my regular T during our twice a week sessions, then I think it would be more beneficial. Additionally, in iop I go 3 times a week for 3 hours. Of that time, only 15 min each day and two 30 minute sessions on Friday, are allotted to me to speak about my issues. The rest of the time, I'm listening to everyone else. So that's 1 hour & 45 min. versus the 2 hours of all me time I get with my T.
>
> Not sure if your iop was structured differently.
>
> I do love Ada, but I've been hesitant to say that. It's because something in her completely connected with me in the first 5 minutes of seeing her. I immediately started feeling. Have you ever had that? To have held everything in for so long, pretending to feel, pretending to be happy, going along with life and the boom! To actually feel, in the moment, to have those emotions so strongly pour forth. She was intoxicating. Not with beauty or any other such thing. But that she was the right conductor for my train of feelings at that moment. Yes, I definitely miss that. If you've ever felt that way, then I think you may understand.
>
> I'm in quite a pickle, aren't I?
>
> -Verloren
>
Posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 22:38:04
In reply to Re: I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by emmanuel98 on January 24, 2010, at 22:03:04
Do you mind me asking how long were you in the partial hospitalization program before your T was able to let you come back?
I worry that I won't get beyond my anger toward being there and be able to feel that compassion you mention. It's odd, I'm compassionate toward others in certain circumstances, but in this one, I can't see beyond myself. Which, in that way, hinders me just as well.
I consulted with Ada because of the romantic transference I was feeling for my T. I needed to hear a therapy professional tell me it was OK and that I was not a freak, before I could come clean to my T about my feelings.
Incidentally, all of this roller coaster weirdness that I'm on began as soon as I revealed my feelings to my T.
The week before I told her about the transference, I asked her if I made her uncomfortable. She immediately replied "Not at all in the least". I then asked her again one week after admitting my feelings. She paused and thought for a while and said that she was uncomfortable with me not getting the level of help I needed. That's when she started suggesting me for the iop. So in my unbalanced mind, it made me think I had done something to make her uncomfortable. And the only something was that I told her I loved her and showed her a post I wrote describing her as beautiful and petite.
Now I feel like that was a bad, bad, bad idea and I don't trust my decision making anymore.It's also why I'm so attracted to the thought of going to Ada. I can start over and hopefully not make the same mistakes and feel rejected. This time I can do it right.
But there's no "right" way to do therapy is there?
Posted by Verloren on January 25, 2010, at 15:35:06
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
I am so angry and hurting I can hardly type so please excuse any grammar or spelling errors.
I left a msg for my T telling her to call me and briefly discussed the issue of my return to work. I said I would discontinue the iop and wanted to discuss future treatment. I gave her the times I would be unavailable to answer the phone. She called back during the time I specifically said I was unavailable a basically terminated me via voicemessage.
She said "I'm not planning on following you after you leave the day treatment program"
I didn't even understand at first that she meant, she was terminating me so I had to call her back for clarity.
Sure enough she said that because of my "binge drinking" and because I didn't work well with the pdoc she uses, that she could not continue to see me. She revealed that she thought she would have more time while I was in the program to say all this.
She WAS plotting all along to terminate me and getting me into the iop only served to make it easier for her to do so.
I am so TIRED of people rejected me because it's convenient for THEM. What about me?! I just need to vent here. I came home a just screamed after that message. How dare she! MY whole day is ruined.This is unethical and immoral. I hate this. Now I'm left to pick up the pieces with another therapist and we will have to spend months-years getting me to trust the process again. Now I fear I will always be waiting for a therapist to drop me. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME???? Am I really THAT bad??? How can I fail at therapy? I thought it was supposed to get better with therapy.
Now I feel like I need a lawyer because I spent time and money on the iop at her suggestion when it was the only easy way for her to give me the boot. And she repeatedly said all the while that she would not terminate me then SHE DID!!! And these past 2 weeks were hell in the iop that I hated!I just can't stop crying and now I can't even see the keyboard anymore so I have to stop typing
-Hurting badly
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2010, at 17:59:36
In reply to Re: SHE TERMINATED ME!!!!, posted by Verloren on January 25, 2010, at 15:35:06
Lying about termination is an awful thing for a therapist to do. You went into this with the expectation that she would continue to see you.
I don't know how she can justify that sort of deception.
I am sorry you have to deal with this, although it sounds as if you are way better off without a therapist like that.
Is there anyone who can help guide you to a therapist who might be better suited?
Posted by MysticKangaroo on January 25, 2010, at 18:15:31
In reply to I'm so sorry » Verloren, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2010, at 17:59:36
Oh Veloren How bloody painful. What a mess. If only I could type wear words I would. Wish I had more to offer.
Keep taking care of yourself. You are worth the effort. Honest.
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 25, 2010, at 18:31:44
In reply to Re: SHE TERMINATED ME!!!!, posted by Verloren on January 25, 2010, at 15:35:06
I hate this and I'm so sorry. She sounds like she has some issues, doesn't she? That doesn't help YOU, though.
I had a T (not my recently retired one) who dumped me mid-week of my last hospitalization (and I couldn't be discharged without a T), so I get it. I totally get it.
She needs to be put in time out. Or reported. Or something.
(((((((Verloren))))))
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 25, 2010, at 19:58:35
In reply to Re: SHE TERMINATED ME!!!! » Verloren, posted by TherapyGirl on January 25, 2010, at 18:31:44
Wow! It was hard to tell from your posts what was the real situation and what was just your fear, but apparently your intuition was good. YOu could feel it coming. I've never heard of a T doing that, just terminating you over voicemail. You should take the attitude of good riddance. She can't work with transference obviously. You need a T who can and regularly does. Someone who won't get uncomfortable with strong transference emotions. You should ask that directly of your next T.
Posted by Sigismund on January 25, 2010, at 21:43:21
In reply to I'm so sorry » Verloren, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2010, at 17:59:36
You want help badly, and hoped she would be the one to give it to you. Perhaps it is too soon to feel that this is all for the best. I thought that stuff about substance abuse and binge drinking was all wrong. (I say to my current shrink with whom I discuss the world that I hope not to drink too much for Christmas/Easter/whatever. He always advises me to be careful not to drink too much less. This, along with a show of respect, is much more effective.) And when I saw a T with whom I did therapy, we would discuss separations and the termination for many months beforehand, maybe 6. Did you say it was done by voicemail? Goodness.
Posted by ebo4ny on January 26, 2010, at 0:29:51
In reply to Re: SHE TERMINATED ME!!!!, posted by Verloren on January 25, 2010, at 15:35:06
Holy Moly! What a rotten thing to do! Even if you were binge drinking!(Which you are not). I am so sorry! I don't think I have enough exclamation points!!!! Enraged on your behalf!!!
Posted by tetrix on January 26, 2010, at 9:25:17
In reply to Re: SHE TERMINATED ME!!!!, posted by Verloren on January 25, 2010, at 15:35:06
hi Verloren
I was really angry as I read your message, I am in the office and as I saw your post I said out loud " what a piece of ****"
I am very sorry this happened to you but look at the bright side atleast you wont be stuck with an incompetant cruella.Hugs, feel better
Posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 10:37:14
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
in a nutshell she said she "hoping" we work things out so I "can continue" but that "parameters" will need to be discussed.
my eyelids are all puffed up from the 18 hours of crying and now this.
this is lousy
-v
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:58:25
In reply to Re: WHHAAAAATTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 10:37:14
Or at least not in final sort of way?
Well, it might be interesting to hear her parameters. Are you attached enough to wish to continue with her despite everything?
Posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 13:23:43
In reply to So she didn't terminate you? » Verloren, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:58:25
but this is more of the roller coaster I've been on with her. she says one thing and gets me rolling down one path. Then she has some time to think about it and starts rolling me back the other way. Then the other way again...
I'm way too dizzy to think straight now.
More than anything, I want a second chance, but as you all have said, this is about her not me. Maybe she wants a second chance too. Who knows what she's thinking. I don't anymore.
I'll go to hear what she has to say. Don't think I can continue with her but who knows what will even happen. Life is unexpected and crazy that way.
-very verloren
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 19:52:28
In reply to Re: So she didn't terminate you? --No, she did » Dinah, posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 13:23:43
It could be interesting to hear what she has to say, as long as you kept your emotional distance until you find out what's going on with her.
Did you get in contact with the other therapist?
Posted by Verloren on January 27, 2010, at 21:04:37
In reply to I used to love my T, now I don't..., posted by Verloren on January 24, 2010, at 13:22:43
This has been an intense roller-coaster ride for me. And I really relied on the support and input here.
I would like to thank all of you who supported me through your words and your thoughts. I am honored to be among such a loving community of people.
And I apologize if I've been too wrapped up in my own therapeutic issues lately. I will try to give as much as I have received.
I am doing much better since the termination and then the un-termination phone call she gave me the day after.
She's given me more hoops to jump through if I want to be her patient and by now I'm too tired.
I'm just ready to move on to my next steps whatever they may be.
Thanks again everyone!!!
((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS(((BABBLERS)))HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))
-Verloren
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