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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
I'm not in my usual writing mood just now so this won't take too, too long. Just want to feel a bit connected. Therapy has continued to be intense, deep, and amazing. I feel pretty connected right now. (Just saw her yesterday.)
But, unfortunately we agreed she would leave a message for the week and she hasn't done it yet. Usually she would have. These are the possibilities running through my mind:
A. She forgot. I would have big feelings about this one although I would like to think I could handle it. But as I say that, I don't think I could.
B. She was short on time yesterday and now it's a Sunday family day so who knows when she will get to it. Again, I would like to be OK with that, but it only takes 2 - 4 minutes to call me and leave a message so I'm really not OK with this one.
C. She thinks she left a message but there was a technical glitch. This can happen which is why we agreed I would call her if I hadn't heard from her in 24 hours from the time I would expect her to call. That would be right about now. But I can't seem to make myself call. Too vulnerable. Too pathetic. Too much burden on her. Too much.
D. Something terrible happened to her or someone she loves. I just worry then and definitely don't want to call if it could be D cause I would just feel like an insensitive jerk.
E. Another client is in crisis (while I'm not at the moment) and has taken her attention away from me. I feel insanely jealous about this idea, and then, also like an insensitive jerk.
*sigh*
I'm trying to do good things. I'm thinking of really loving (or just supportive, I guess) things she said yesterday and I'm just feeling them over and over in my ears. I'm reading my special notebook where I have written little notes expressing only the times I have felt connected to her. I'm staring at her little tiny icon picture of her on my desktop. I'm telling her how much I love her in my head.
Usually I might be rejecting her and then me... so it's not that bad right now. But I am still asking, what's my next move? What should I do? When do I call? Should I call? Why must I call? See... then the judgments start coming... and it's only Sunday. I have until Thursday potentially to deal with this. I just want control. I don't to hurt, be hurt, be in need, get critical, start to spiral, and then spin out over something like a stupid phone message.
Wow. Somehow I think I just described one of my issues, but I'm too tired to figure it out. Just took and Ativan.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 20:21:06
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
Bad behavior ensued and now I have to pay the price.
Posted by obsidian on June 7, 2009, at 23:08:07
In reply to Hm. Guess I wasn't OK., posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 20:21:06
nothing too harmful I hope...
take care of you,
sid
Posted by antigua3 on June 8, 2009, at 7:13:09
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
I'd call her today so you can stop ruminating over it. She may not have called for any of the reasons you mentioned, but it's better you know than to obsess over it.
Calling relieves so much pressure and tension, and I've found that if it's really interfering with my ability to function, I call. That's my rule, so I can quit thinking about it all the time.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 9:04:14
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
She called. Unfortunately I was not sober. This is the second time I have done this recently. This is not something I have done in my life. And now twice I have shamed myself. I guess I'm just hurting.
Thanks for checking on me.
FMD
Posted by Dinah on June 8, 2009, at 9:17:01
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
My therapist has told me that if he doesn't call when he promises, or if he doesn't call me back, I should call and say something like "Dinah. Reminder. You were supposed to call me."
If I tried to find his caring in his remembering to call me, I'd be doomed to failure. But if I try to find his caring in his willingness to be reminded, and his contacting me when reminded, I'll be much more successful.
He'd far prefer that to my communicating my feelings in other ways.
Maybe you could see this as an opportunity to evaluate your options, and which would be best for you and for your therapeutic relationship?
No point in beating yourself up for something that is past when the energy can be spent in the future.
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2009, at 13:23:31
In reply to Re: I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by Dinah on June 8, 2009, at 9:17:01
She called agree don't beat yourself up Phillipa
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 13:34:11
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
Figuring out something by this unfortunate incident that I brought on myself. I just needed to become so incapacitated that I could disappoint everyone, enrage my wife (instead of me feeling so much rage towards her), become the bad guy and divert attention away from my real problems so that I could just become the problem. It wasn't working to try to cut out my wants and needs so now I just don't feel anything. It's a weird floaty feeling. I don't even care if my T calls. (I think she said she would once I was sober but I'm not sure.) And I don't need anything from my partner. My shame has engulfed me. We have couples therapy tonight and instead of talking about hard things like last week (things I need/want), we will just talk about how terrible it was for my wife to have me to "check out." She can be justified in her anger now. I can take punishment well. I'm comfortable with that. I don't have to worry about wanting people to love me if they don't. I won't be disappointed for not getting things I want because now I know I don't deserve them.
Posted by antigua3 on June 8, 2009, at 15:35:02
In reply to It's nice to feel numb, I admit, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 13:34:11
Sorry, but you do deserve the good things. Sometimes it does seem like punishment is easier to bear than to even entertain the thought that we deserve good things, because, at least in my case, I feel so shameful.
I see how you're hiding, though. Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of distancing yourself so nobody--your partner or your T--can even get close to you.
But, you know what? You realize what's going on and that's a huge step.
Please let some of this out. You will feel so much better.
antigua
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 20:00:38
In reply to It's nice to feel numb, I admit, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 13:34:11
Thanks antigua, Dinah, Phillipa, obsidian.
Talked to T just now. I felt pretty numb. I'm sad. I feel like it's all over now. I can never be seen as good or together by her again. I really f-ed up this time. Just talked to my wife too. She is still flipped out at me. And just having a really hard time with everything. We have couple's therapy tonight. My T encouraged me to try to talk about some of the feelings that led me to thinking checking out was my only choice. How do I do that? Couple's T has way more empathy for wife than for me, I'm afraid. I mean she's great. I love her, but tonight it's going to be all about how I abandoned my wife. Again.
I think I just wanted attention. I wanted someone to take care of ME. I'm at a breaking point of some kind.
I just want to crawl back into my hole and just be an obedient partner and just serve her needs and have it all smooth over. I don't want to see my T anymore. She knows too much. She makes me see things I want and can't have and then life feels disappointing. (And in this case I'm not talking about wanting my T.)
I told her I was feeling like I didn't want to see her or face her. She scheduled an extra session for me. lol See how well she knows me? I'm scared.
I feel crazy right now.
FMD
Posted by obsidian on June 10, 2009, at 22:42:49
In reply to It's nice to feel numb, I admit, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 8, 2009, at 13:34:11
did you say 'f*ck it'. because if you did, I know that feeling. the problem with being numb is that it is a hard place to get away from, you just want to be comfortable, you don't want to engage and you don't have to.
I am a big fan of spacing out, going numb, needing to "check out" (mentally) for a while
but how tempting it can be
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 12, 2009, at 19:23:29
In reply to I'm OK, but why didn't she call me?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 7, 2009, at 13:33:22
OK, so I see how I am projecting my anger towards my wife onto my T. I see I am projecting my child-like needs that I had for my parents onto my T. I see how I am projecting my unexplored/unfulfilled sexual desires onto my T. I see how I project my desire for intimacy and connection with another human being onto my T.
I also see how she is just a regular person, with a (paid) job to care for me and help me grow and heal and move on with my life in a more meaningful and fulfilling way. And then I will be saying goodbye to her.
In the meantime, she *forgot* to call me. So, boom it happened. This was the first time ever. Now I know what that feels like and it wasn't the end of the world. But it *felt* like the end of the world. And that made be feel like a pathetic baby. This made me realize how much need I truly have for her right now and I think it's too much. I just want to dial it back a little bit. Or get rid of as much of it as possible. Can't I just talk myself away from it? If my feelings for her are fake, and hers for me are professional, then why waste time talking about all of that?
If I know I'm projecting everything onto her then I can just start talking about my real life and not my fake life with her. I don't need the biggest hurts in my life to come from someone I can't even invest in. I should be focusing on my family and my partner and trying not to let all of that fall apart.
There's so much I wish I could take back - starting with my behavior last weekend. I feel like I got scolded for it. I don't think I really did, but she just set some good boundaries. The process of talking about it though felt cold and detached. I'm sure it wasn't for her, really, but to me I felt like she was gone from me. I feel like things have officially changed now. And they will never be the same.
I feel like a snail without a shell. Crawling across hot cement. With spilled salt everywhere. And someone with big feet walking my way.
FMD
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 19:46:15
In reply to Throwing away the transference part?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 12, 2009, at 19:23:29
I hate it when I walk smack dab into the boundaries. I bruise myself on them and they hurt. Still, therapy can't be therapy without them.
Even in personal relationships there can be fallout from our actions. But in therapy as well as in personal relationships, if there is a commitment to a relationship, these things can be worked out. It sounds as if your therapist is committed to working them out. Will it be the same? It might be. But relationships shift over time based on any number of things. The relationship you have with anyone today is likely not the same one that you had six months ago. How it will change is yet to be seen. You might end up in a deeper better place from seeing her as she really is.
It's hard to say whether it's worth it or not. Do you find your relationship with your therapist is progressing similarly to other relationships in your life? Do your issues with her reflect your issues in general?
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 12, 2009, at 23:11:15
In reply to Re: Throwing away the transference part? » FindingMyDesire, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 19:46:15
Hi Dinah,
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm in a Really, Really Bad Place. Close to tears constantly today. Had a terrible day at work, which I usually love.(Editor's note) Dinah - you may not want to read this whole thing depending on your state or even depending on if you have that many hours... ;-)
My partner is clearly trying really hard to be different - since couple's therapy on Monday. It's hard because I want to encourage these "behaviors" but that's what they feel like - things she is doing, not feeling. I don't trust her or them.
So, is my relationship with my T progressing like my other relationships? Well, "progressing" seems like an unusual word to use here. I suppose all of my issues are projecting onto her and so I have the opportunity to play them out with her.
She is totally trustworthy and I do think I believe she cares about me. But there are some things about her style that seem to surface when I'm in a certain state. I suppose that means it's all me. I tried to check it out with her and she wouldn't really take responsibility for what I was sensing. Goes back to me. That's familiar. Anytime I felt hurt by my father he did this mocking wave goodbye to me and said, "Bye, bye. You are taking yourself on that trip all by yourself." Maybe that's how healthy relationships are and I have to accept that. I'm me. You are you. And I shouldn't be effected by you or if I am then I just have to deal with it on my own. But don't think I can come to you all vulnerable feeling like I was hurt by you and expect that I'm going to feel safe when you won't engage yourself in the process at all.
I think I'm angry. (Another editor's note. My therapist, has been at least, the most incredible, supportive, caring, smart, intuitive, and attentive therapist I have ever experienced. She does many things within her boundaries for me to show her love - or what I guess just feels like love - for me. I'm just pissed off right now at everyone!)
And it's such a waste to be angry at my T. I'm really angry at my mother and my wife and my dad and who knows who else.
And that's such a waste too. Really, my relationship with my wife is all that matters. So, I should just be spending time on that one.
I'm in the spinning now. And I have to get out of it. No bad behaviors happening here. I'm just going to write A LOT and then cry A LOT and then go to bed. I see the T tomorrow.
I'm imagining All Kinds Of Rejecting Scenarios. (Again, a total waste of time.)
Telling her off in several different ways and then walking out (as if she would care.)
Sitting in the waiting room but not flipping the "someone's waiting" light and waiting to see how long it takes her to come out looking for me. Then pretend that I forgot. LOL That's funny. Whoa! I bet *that* would get her back for not calling me. HAHA I'm cracking myself up.
Wait for her to start talking. She will most likely ask something about what came up for me after Thursday. Or something more wilted, like, "How are you?" Then I somehow muster up enough strength to say I've been fine. Let's talk about my partner and what's going on at home. (This would require swallowing a lot of me which hurts. I can feel it right now in my body as I imagine this one.)
I start in first saying (in my most intellectual voice) that I have come to realize just how much projection I am doing onto her and that I realize I am having anger towards my partner, not her. That I am wanting things from her that I want from my wife. And so it's really irrelevant that I didn't get what I needed Thursday (or Saturday) from her because it's not about her. It's about my wife. So, let's just talk about my wife from now on. I'm done with that transference stuff. It served it's purpose and now it's just in the way. (This one hurts in my chest as I think it too.)
And on and on.
Problem is that these are all the LIES I'm trying to tell myself (and her in my head) to get away from the way I feel right now.
WHY CAN'T SHE SOUND AS COMFORTING IN PERSON WHEN I'M IN TERRIBLE NEED THAT SHE DOES WHEN SHE LEAVES ME SUPPORTIVE MESSAGES?????? CAUSE I *KNOW* IT'S DIFFERENT. SHE FEELS DIFFERENT. I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THERAPY FOR YEARS TO LEARN NOTHING ABOUT READING PEOPLE'S BODY LANGUAGE, TIGHTNESS OF VOICE, EYE DIRECTIONS. (Sh*t if I hadn't been so f*cked up myself, I would have wanted to be a T myself.)
If she could just say to me that she feels vulnerable or afraid of doing it wrong or afraid of showing too many of her real feelings for me and getting us off track (that'd be unlikely since I know she thinks I'm just pathetic now.) If she could tell me some of what she is thinking. I've had a therapist (3, actually) say things to me like, "I am really wishing I could comfort you right now. Or, "I can feel myself wanting to hold you right now." (with no intention of doing it - just letting me see some real feelings of theirs.) That can be so helpful in these situations.
WHAT ARE HER REAL FEELINGS FOR ME?
I mean, how can she expect for me to go in there like I have The Last Three Saturdays pouring my raw self out and sustain that without more connection? We didn't get to process it enough - to reconnect enough. We didn't get to talk about "us." And then she FORGOT to call me for that week. And then I got really, really drunk. And now we REALLY aren't connected.
She seemed so distant from me and so totally unable to see how humiliated and hurt I feel under all of my anger. She encourages the anger but doesn't make a container of warm love for me to have it in. Maybe cause she wants to leave space for me to be angry at her too? MAYBE. I'll give her that possibility, maybe. But you can't expect me to be angry at you, T, my primary *everything* and not also need to be held by you, my primary *everything*. I need to be held by you. (Not literally)
She just said, "I'm here." At the beginning of the session. And it sounded stifled. Sure, I can "be there" too. My *ss is on the couch and I've got my arms crossed. "Here I am!"
F*ck.
I don't think I have ever really complained about my T before. This feels WAY, WAY worse than anything else.
I know what any of you are thinking if you read all the way down here. I just need to try to talk to her about all of this. WHY? So I can cry and cry and feel like an idiot? While she sits there staring at me thinking to herself that all of these feelings are about my parents, my partner, and me.
I want all of my love letters back from her. If She Didn't Throw Them Out. They aren't really about her, right? What a waste of creative energy - expressing my love for her.
Bad Place, Bad Place.
I'm writing here in my old post cause I don't want any of the newbies to get scared away from the complexity and beauty of transference and it's positive uses. I just *think* too much. I just should have let it unfold, not asked for things, and then just found myself laughing with her at the end. "Yeah, that was so funny how you thought you were attracted to me or that you loved me. Remember that? Good times..."
F*ck this humiliation. I hate humiliation more than anything. I HATE TO BE HUMILIATED. She needed to set a boundary, but SH*T she could have done it with a LOT more sensitivity and care. Maybe she doesn't get that when I'm furious - that's my child too. Not just when I'm crying. My anger is a desperate attempt to hold on to myself.
My anger is the only thing keeping me from cutting this hole out of my chest.
Formerly Looking For My Desire
This is the end of the thread.
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