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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 0:55:25
OK so that's one issue, by the constantly wiggles to either be comfortable or stay awake. His body posture is closed= arms crossed and legs crossed. He is very rigid about our stop time and there is no closure. He will not discuss anything about his personal life, period. I know he is gay, in a relationship, and does not have children. He is the type of therapist who has very uncomfortable chairs, and a austere modern office. I sometimes sit in "his chair" to play with his mind. My frustration is the guy takes no notes, and I'm not sure he cares about me at all. He does a group for the police, for abusers, I don't know if his boundary issue is because of those people, or because he into boundaries period. He has told me, my daughter is prone to hysteria. Perhaps, I'm also, I plan on asking. My therapy issues are childhood and adult PTSD, bulimia of 20 years, 5 deaths in the past 2 years. One my mom as I held her hand. Do I need a new T????
Posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 2:34:32
In reply to 'T' has has trouble staying awake during sessions, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 0:55:25
I apologize, I should have been more careful with spelling and editing. I'm much more freaked out about my T than I am writing. I was on the suicide ward in June, we have a no suicide pact. I am not suicidal, but I am sad. My T is 62, I often wonder if he needs a nap. I did ask for a hug last session as we just opened the lid on my bulimia. He hesitated and said "no". I wrote him an email asking, that we end our sessions with a review of what we've covered and some thoughts on where I need to focus. He has not responded to my email, and I am guessing he will not. I think he could help me, but I wonder if compared to the felons I'm high functioning, and boring. I am frustrated by his distancing which seems to be worse each week. T's are so hard to find, I hate to give up but maybe that's what he wants.
Posted by JouezMoi on November 13, 2008, at 5:03:45
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake, more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 2:34:32
First of all, welcome Maysie. I hope you enjoy and benefit from the comeraderie and support here. This is a great forum.
I do have the same problem with my T dozing off ... she's 65, and when she does .. I look st her directly and say ... "You're falling asleep on me". She saya "No no I'm listening" (yeah right) , changes position and opens her eyes more. It mostly happens when I'm rambling on and on about stuff that happened during the week. Maybe she's trying to tell me that I talk too much? I don't know, but it is disconcerting. Just ask him and let him know that you've noticed, how you feel .. ask him if he's tired .. throw the ball in his court.
Posted by seldomseen on November 13, 2008, at 5:53:44
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake, more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 2:34:32
I also welcome you to babble.
I know this maybe hard, but I would definately put some of these concerns right back on your therapist.
Personally, I find falling asleep grounds for termination, especially if you mention it to him and he still does it.
However, he may have some explanations for his behaviour and you need to find out what they are.
I would definately try to get that dialogue going.
Seldom
Posted by sassyfrancesca on November 13, 2008, at 7:52:43
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake, more story » maysie, posted by seldomseen on November 13, 2008, at 5:53:44
Welcome, Maysie!
Hey, I am 62, and I don't ever take naps unless I am home; I have as much energy as a 20 year-old!
When we hire a professional (doctor, plumber, attorney,etc) we expect them to do the job we are paying them for.
Can you imagine if an airplane pilot took naps??!!
He doesn't sound well-trained to me.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by lucie lu on November 13, 2008, at 8:51:07
In reply to 'T' has has trouble staying awake during sessions, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 0:55:25
Hi maysie,
You didn't say how long you'd been seeing him, but from what you're describing there is still a pretty profound lack of connection between you. That must be disappointing, given the difficult subjects you are trying to discuss with him. I'm sorry you have had so many things happen in your life to create such a heavy burden.
As to what to do, you could try talking to him face-on about the problem. Sometimes, even in a good T relationship, the early stages are marked by abortive attempts by one or both to connect, turning away, trying again, and then eventually something clicks and you finally connect. Then your work together focuses on strengthening that connection. So it sounds to me like you are still in that early stage, but it would seem appropriate to have a discussion about the course of your therapy if you haven't already. What are the goals of your therapy as you each envision them? And how does he plan on addressing these goals with you? What are his expectations for himself, for you, and for your mutual relationship? What is his orientation? Does he describe his approach as psychodynamic or psychoanalytic? These orientations are two (there are others) that really emphasize the importance of the therapeutic relationship. Others, e.g. CBT (cognitive-behavioral therapy), are typically less focused in that direction. This is overly simplistic, a lot of T's describe themselves as eclectic and use a combination of approaches. And from the range of things people here have said, some CBT T's have a much warmer, more nurturing style than some dynamic or analytic T's, so there is an element of personal style within different approaches. But it sounds as though you are longing for a closer relationship, so it might be good to check with him whether this is something he feels he can provide. If not, then it is probably not a good match and you'd probably get farther with a more like-minded T, who'd be better suited to meeting your needs. And finally, what is the likely time frame? For long-term therapy, I think it is especially important that the therapist-client match is a good one. Whereas it is possible to achieve more narrowly-defined goals within a short-term course of therapy that may not require particular closeness with the therapist. But these are all things that seem worth talking about sooner rather than later with him. If you really are not on the same page, you might do well to try to find someone else. I know how difficult it is to talk so frankly about these things, especially to someone who you do not feel a connection with, when you feel vulnerable. It can be very hard to talk about your hopes, disappointments, fears, and needs. But IMO you do somehow need to check whether there is a reasonable chance these feelings, and your overall goals, can be accommodated and addressed with this T. Some T-client fits are simply better than others.
Look forward to learning more about you. Welcome to Babble!
Best,
Lucie
Posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 10:43:54
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake, more story, posted by JouezMoi on November 13, 2008, at 5:03:45
I have seen him since June. It was 2x a week for the month after the attempt, now once a week. I know good T's are sometimes like hitting the power-ball. I've seen a couple. I'm a "good patient" just like I was the "good daughter". I've lost my good T's to retirement and other life changes.
I have been vocal about his wiggling to stay awake. Maybe the issue is I do it in a motherly way, like "you are wiggling, are you tired, do you need a nap?"
I should say at $120/hour, this is an insult to me and my reason for being here! (even he said I should say this).
As I said my main issues I thought were the ugly verbal abuse I had heard all my life. Along my way with him I turned over something I thought were nothing, but it turned out to be the memory of a car wreck which nearly killed almost all my family. I think this found memory was not expected by either of us, because he was equally unhappy to find it. My dealing with them has been pretty much him wiggling and listening as I struggle to remember and talk about a car wreck I had blocked, that nearly killed my family when I was 18. As an aside he asked me this past week if I always cried this much, UH WHAT???I hope this doesn't sound to woo-woo, but at 58 years old I want to grow up into the woman I can be. Lively, vibrant, colorful, probably still shy, and agoraphobic, but fully alive. Not the wounded shell I had been all the years my parents were alive to tell me how inadequate I was. I have told him this is my goal many times. I know I have to clean my brain some more to function in that way, but is he capable of helping with this? I think he is a deeply unhappy, rigid man, who can only tolerate a minimum of liveliness. I asked him what gives him pleasure, he said watching his chickens.. I love chickens, but still this is a "HUH" answer.
You all are so nice!
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2008, at 11:41:04
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 10:43:54
Hearing you talk about him, I'm getting the feeling that the attachment may not be that strong? He just might not be right for you. :(
I'm not sure anything you can do can stave off the sleepiness. My therapist does it from time to time. I've gotten where I tell him with varying degrees of amusement and irritation "Would you like to stand up and walk around?" And he takes me up on it at times. Other times I confess to say "I can't *believe* you're sleepy when I'm talking about this!"
It's very annoying, and even with the best good will it's hard to read the situation as showing the engagement we deserve from our therapists. I suppose if he comes through with you at other times you can decide, like I have, to accept the annoyances. But otherwise... Well there are a lot of therapists out there.
Posted by lucie lu on November 13, 2008, at 12:09:09
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 10:43:54
Maysie,
IMO this does not sound at all promising....
> I have been vocal about his wiggling to stay awake. Maybe the issue is I do it in a motherly way, like "you are wiggling, are you tired, do you need a nap?"
Maybe you should ask in your motherly tone whether he needs to go to the potty? Seriously, you should not have to entice or encourage him to do his job, which you are paying $120 an hour for. Sounds like you have been trying your best to prop him up, like a puppet.>he was equally unhappy to find it. My dealing with them has been pretty much him wiggling and listening as I struggle to remember and talk about a car wreck I had blocked, that nearly killed my family when I was 18. As an aside he asked me this past week if I always cried this much, UH WHAT???
Excuse me? Sounds like he really was in the bathroom when empathy was handed out. Grrr
Putting empathy aside, a good T would be glad you remembered, want to support you and be more interested rather than less on examining the memory together to see what effect it might have had on you. I expect you already know that, since you say you've seen some good T's in action. I'm sorry that you have lost access to them for one reason or another. That must be disappointing.
It really is hard to find a good T who is also a good match. Maybe there should be some equivalent to a dating service to pair clients with compatible T's. I'm only half joking.
> I hope this doesn't sound to woo-woo, but at 58 years old I want to grow up into the woman I can be. Lively, vibrant, colorful, probably still shy, and agoraphobic, but fully alive.Woo-woo? Is there anything wrong with that picture? I am 56. Don't tell me there is anything strange in wanting to be that woman. Me, I plan to fly away into a technicolor sunset :)
>to function in that way, but is he capable of helping with this? I think he is a deeply unhappy, rigid man, who can only tolerate a minimum of liveliness. I asked him what gives him pleasure, he said watching his chickens.. I love chickens, but still this is a "HUH" answer.
Good grief, this man sounds seriously depressed. Or something. I'm surprised you can keep awake during sessions. You've been seeing him twice weekly since June, it's now November. IMO you've given it plenty of time, and now it's time to evaluate how effective therapy with him has been. Personally, I would give this guy the heave-ho and not look back, but that's just me. We're all different in what works best for us.
I once had a back problem and went to a specialist (this is a true story). This guy was so busy, he dictated out loud into a tape recorder while I was trying to talk to him! "Patient is a x-year old (some additional, rather unflattering, physical description) female, depressed-looking, complaining of back pain, possibly psychosomatic..." I just looked at him and walked right out. Wonder if this guy went into psychiatry and moved to your area (lol)
> You all are so nice!
This board has so many terrific people and lots of good talk. Glad you joined
Lucie
Posted by Trident on November 13, 2008, at 14:58:26
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake, more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 2:34:32
Hi Maysie,
I recently stopped seeing a therapist of 5 years because he had trouble staying awake. The first time it happened, it upset me a lot. I talked about it with him and he never seemed to undestand how serious it was for me. It made me feel like he was taking advantage of me. It's hard to sit and talk about very difficult things and have the person you are supposed to trust just doze off. It was very tough for me, but after realizing that I was spending more time worrying about him falling asleep and wasn't getting a benefit out of therapy anymore. IMO, it's unacceptable behavior, even if there is a good reason behind the sleepiness (medical condition, etc.). If the therapist can't find a way to stay alert, I think it's best to move on. You deserve someone who is attentive to you. Good luck!
Posted by Nadezda on November 13, 2008, at 22:06:10
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story, posted by maysie on November 13, 2008, at 10:43:54
When you say, "I think he is a deeply unhappy, rigid man who can only tolerate a minimum of liveliness" you seem to me to be answering your own question. This is especially true given your goals in therapy, which are, among others, to be able to express and explore your potential to be "lively, vibrant, colorful, probably still shy, and agoraphobic, but fully alive...."
You can't really move in that direction with someone who can't tolerate liveliness.
And, really, so many of your responses to him suggest that he makes you extremely uncomfortable. You need to feel a sense of safety with a T, and I think it doesn't hurt if the person helps you to feel more interested in and hopeful about yourself than otherwise. That's hardly the feeling I get from reading your descriptions.
Maybe there are ways he responds that compensate for these deficits, which you haven't mentioned? Otherwise, it seems that his limitations are ones that would severely compromise your growth.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2008, at 13:19:11
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story » maysie, posted by Nadezda on November 13, 2008, at 22:06:10
Have you asked him why he's so tired? Could be a medical problem. Just throwing thing out there. Love Phillipa
Posted by maysie on November 14, 2008, at 23:47:04
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2008, at 13:19:11
Phillipa, The roosters crowed and woke him early.
As I read around on the net and this board. I can see that he is not real engaged when I am talking. His main practice is groups of felons where I imagine things move fast. My situation is one of digging up the memories and processing them. He seems ready to move on, regardless of where I am in the stage of dealing with memory recalls. It seems like a pretty classic example of not being engaged. The thing keeping me there is it was him who found these memories. Do I try to work it out or move on?
Posted by lucie lu on November 15, 2008, at 7:23:13
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story, posted by maysie on November 14, 2008, at 23:47:04
>of not being engaged. The thing keeping me there is it was him who found these memories. Do I try to work it out or move on?
Maisie, I can understand your not wanting to move on until you are completely convinced that your therapy will not meet your ultimate goals with this T. After all, you have already invested time and money and some emotional energy into the relationship.
I think his current practice may be another thing to consider besides his personal qualities as a T. It is my impression, and maybe other Babblers can comment more knowledgeably on this, that certain populations, including felons and addicts, can be difficult, and for some Ts even disheartening to treat, if only because many really don't want or feel they need therapy. They are only there because the court or some other authority mandated it. So your T may not be used to someone really wanting to make a deep connection. Or did he choose this line of work because he won't have to connect deeply? It seems to me that he would have jumped at the opportunity at having a client who was really motivated. The fact that he hasn't engaged then suggests that he can't or on some level just doesn't wish to.
I think it is healthy that you want to make the decision carefully whether to stay with him or not. But we all hear your deep frustration and disappointment. So while it may not be an entirely lost cause, it seems to me it would be an uphill battle. IMO it would be sad to see you staying in that situation and longing for words you may have to put into his mouth. Maysie, just from what you have written so far, I see you as an intelligent and perceptive woman who articulates her goals and dreams, someone who wants and would benefit from a close and meaningful therapeutic relationship with a T who can actively participate in the personal growth you seek. It's not just that your current T does not fit the bill, it's that you deserve so much more than you are getting. It just seems really worth it, IMHO,for you to look around just a bit longer and see if you can find a better match. I think someone like you would be a good client, one that many Ts would like to work with. I hate to see you commit yourself to such a limited relationship as the one you currently have.
Simply out of curiosity, and please just tell me I'm overstepping in asking this, but have you been in relationships before where you felt you had to do all the work to keep it going?
I'm glad you decided to come to Babble.
Lucie
Posted by maysie on November 15, 2008, at 12:09:23
In reply to Re: 'T' has trouble staying awake,2nd more story » maysie, posted by lucie lu on November 15, 2008, at 7:23:13
Regarding being in a relationship where I "did" the work, that would be the relationship with my mother, which put me in the suicide ward.
With T's I've had various amounts of luck. I think I have had soem wonderful Ts and the "bad" ones, I've never stayed as long as I have with this one. In the other discussion regarding attachment, this T is a boundary freak, he will share nothing about his life (well except his chickens). I'm having a grieving time this weekend, as I realize I have to quit him. I don't think I'll ever go back in the hospital, but I know having a good T is one way to insure that will not happen. I'm a scared to be without as I find another T. Guess I could use him, without expectations (not sure I can do that), while I try to find another T. That's a risky thing to do when I think of what he could do with his lack of empathy. Things to mull over, as our house seems to be a sick ward this weekend.
This is the end of the thread.
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