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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sigismund on October 24, 2008, at 2:14:45
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-( » obsidian, posted by happyflower on October 23, 2008, at 23:22:38
Yeah, on principle (I think) there shouldn't be a phone in the room.
Posted by Annierose on October 24, 2008, at 7:03:10
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by Sigismund on October 24, 2008, at 2:14:45
My feelings would be hurt too. That is unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!! I think you need to tell
him how that made you feel. It's rude.Unlike most t's, my therapist keeps her phone on as well but never pays attention to it. It rarely rings. I think she keeps it on so she will know to check messages in-between clients.
Once her cell phone rang and she did check to see who called and said, "I need to take this." She took the call in the hallway and came back about 5 minutes later. When she returned, she asked, "Can I keep you later today?"
I didn't feel slighted in that situation.
The phone ringing is one fact, asking you to leave his office because of a call is completely off-base. I'm sorry he made you feel bad.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 24, 2008, at 7:55:38
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
(((Obsidian)) I am so sorry. What he did was UNprofessional and cruel. A good therapist does NOT take phone calls while with a client....he should know that. Shame on him!
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by antigua3 on October 24, 2008, at 9:21:25
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
I'm used to this happening. My T's phone rings at least once during our session and she usually checks to see if she needs to get it. And I mean it rings loud, always at the worst point. I've accepted it, and I would leave the room if she asked because I understand her so well.
My pdoc's phone vibrates all the time, but he has never taken a call. The vibrating is very annoying and he knows I hate it. He was away for almost two weeks and the other night he said it had vibrated more than 11 times in the last hour. I told him that's what he gets for going away. Everyone saves up their crisis until he is back.
He is a techie and has a fancy laptop that he writes his notes in. We've talked about how much all this technology bothers me during "my" hour and he has more respect for my feelings now.
I don't know; it's a tough one. If you were having a dire emergency, would you want your T to take the call? Pls, I don't mean to sound harsh, so don't take it that way.
all that said, I don't think they should take calls or even have their phones on. Your time is your time and if it bothers you, talk about it.
antigua
Posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 9:30:43
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by Annierose on October 24, 2008, at 7:03:10
Sid,
I'm sorry you're having such a tough week and having this happen on top of it. I can really empathize with your hurt feelings. My experience is the same as Annierose, and it happened just yesterday, ironically. My T sometimes gets a call or fax at the office number but never answers it while we are in session. On rarer occasions his cell phone will ring, and typically he will glance down to see who it is but not answer, and then apologizes and turns his cell phone off. Rarer still he will apologize, ask for a moment, text a quick reply, and then turn his phone off. Rarest still, only happening twice that I can remember, is his need to take an urgent call. When this happened yesterday, he apologized and asked me for a 3-5 minutes (I left the room). When I got back, he explained to me what the urgent call was, that it was about a patient of his in the hospital and the clinical group there were recommending that the patient be released but wanted my T's OK before they did and they were al just waiting. So my T handled it as tactfully as he could, I think. It would be different if such interruptions happen with any frequency, but they don't.
My feelings about all this? On one hand, I appreciated that he at least told me what the cal was about so I could see for myself that it was urgent. Maybe if your T had done that, it would have helped and softened your hurt feelings. After the interruption, we got back down to business and the rest of the session (he did give me a few minutes extra time to make up for the interruption) was OK. I also would have felt bad giving him a hard time about it since he had given me an extra session and a between-session phone call this week (it was a rough week for me too). I wanted to be able to give something back to him. OK those were themore positive feelings and thoughts.
On the negative side, the interruption had broken my concentration and the flow of the session. It is interesting that, as I think about it, what emerged later in the session after the interruption (and nominally not related to it) was an old issue between us that could be interpreted as subtly critical of him. Coincidence? Well, I started the session feeling needy, there was an interruption, and then I bring up some stuff that subtly criticized him and asserted my own views of the therapy. It seems pretty clear to me in retrospect. I then recognized that after the session my feelings were telling me that there definitely had been a small rupture (as twinleaf described in an above post). I felt, in addition to the warm feelings and gratitude that he had given me "extra" during this week, an extra dollop of separation anxiety (on top of that left by the bad week) and also a return of some of my earlier ambivalent feelings about him and the relationship. Anger at the professional relationship and re-emerging mistrust along the lines of "he only thinks of me as a time-slot" because I had seen his clinical side in action and for another patient at that.
For me at least, this situation in some very tiny way resembles the great Vacation dilemma because in both cases, the interruption needs to take place, we feel abandoned and undervalued anyway, and they know we feel that way but probably wish we didn't. Hopefully your T handles Vacation OK and can accept the need to process a similar set of feelings after the Phone Call. If your T has been trying to get you to express anger and hurt and these feelings are blocked in you, and you think he can handle it well, this might be a great opportunity to kick his butt :)
I don't know what else has been going on in your relationship with your T (have you been meeting long? is there mutual trust? do you usually get along well?) but if your T doesn't allow you to voice your feelings and work together through them, then suggest to him that his countertransference is showing ;) and that he should re-examine the issue from your point of view. Something valuable could come of it if you two can repair the rupture. Does he get defensive about Vacation issues? If so, maybe you can lead off discussion of the Phone Call by saying that you know and understand he needs to do what he needs to do, but you noticed within you afterwards feelings about x,y, and z and could you both talk more about them and what they might mean to you in the context of your relationship with him and maybe others in your life? BTW, I do fully recognize that as paying customers, we should "own" the session altogether and in theory should brook no interruption from someone else. But realistically, I think such an approach might be less productive - therapists are people and they will remember things they've done for you out of the therapy hour, and it could be you on the phone next time!
Anyway, again, I'm sorry you are feeling bad after this session and in general, and hope the incident gets worked through with your T.
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 9:40:44
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 9:30:43
Because my T has a psychodynamic orientation, I always tend to assume that everyone else does. Obviously that is not the case. If yours is CBT, and there isn't much emphasis placed on the relationship, then maybe I wouldn't go into that aspect too much but just might address the situation more at face value and express how it made you feel and what can be done in the future to avoid it happening.
Also I didn't realize until I reread your post that he actually ended the session with that call. That seems pretty unconscionable to me, and at the very least he should have been in touch with you as soon as he could afterwards to apologize and try to make you feel better. I grrrr on your behalf...
L.
Posted by healing928 on October 24, 2008, at 9:51:38
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
I think you should tell your t how upset it made you. That is YOUR time and a very insensitive thing for a to do! I am sorry he did that to you!
Hugs,
Healing
Posted by healing928 on October 24, 2008, at 9:57:23
In reply to p.s., posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 9:40:44
My t is CBT and the only time he had his cell phone on was when his father was passing. He made it clear from the start of that session, and felt bad because he made such a big deal out, like I wouldn't understand. I would not be as understanding if it was another client.
Healing
Posted by llurpsienoodle on October 24, 2008, at 10:44:49
In reply to Re: p.s. » lucie lu, posted by healing928 on October 24, 2008, at 9:57:23
My first T would routinely answer phone calls from his wife/children during sessions. Things like "when are you done with work" "where are the kids' bike helmets" "can you pick up my _____ on your way home" and other emergencies.
I didn't know any better, so I thought it was normal, although it still annoyed the hell out of me.
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2008, at 10:45:44
In reply to Re: p.s. » lucie lu, posted by healing928 on October 24, 2008, at 9:57:23
An emergency that is expected would be the only exception. I hate those answering machines that say if emergency call 911. That's me of course. Sorry you're have a bad week are things better today? Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on October 24, 2008, at 10:51:27
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
Sid,
I am truly sorry this happened to you, especially since you do seem to be in deep pain. Your T should have been observant enough to notice this. For me, my t who is my p-doc too, often has calls, he turns the volume down and has never answered it. As far it bothering me, if I was in the state you are, it would annoy me and i would clam up. If he were to end our session, I would most likely send him an email or a voice mail ranting or crying on him . I would vent but that is part of our relationship at this point. Earlier on I would have probably ditched and ran. I would have thought about not going the next time and he would know this.
I don't think mine would do this because he knows I would just not come back. But now I would let him know because he has encouraged me to express myself to him. Especially when I am fragile. So I usually do.
I would encourage you to do so. Even if all you do is email him with this post cut and pasted directly from here to an email and send it to him. I think he needs to know how what he did affected you.
Take care of yourself.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 12:03:12
In reply to Re: p.s., posted by llurpsienoodle on October 24, 2008, at 10:44:49
> My first T would routinely answer phone calls from his wife/children during sessions. Things like "when are you done with work" "where are the kids' bike helmets" "can you pick up my _____ on your way home" and other emergencies.
>
> I didn't know any better, so I thought it was normal, although it still annoyed the hell out of me.
What a clod! Bike helmets? I've had a lot of Ts over the years but none took non-emergency personal calls during my session. We are lucky these days to have peer forums such as babble. There didn't used to be such an easy way to compare experiences. Given the secrecy of the therapy hour, it was always hard to discern when something was out of the norm.Sounds like you're in better hands now anyway :)
Lucie
Posted by Dinah on October 24, 2008, at 12:08:40
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
I would be mad as h*ll. My therapist used to get phone calls either on vibrate or ring, glance at the caller and put down. I told him that that felt disrespectful. Like I didn't have his attention, and like he was looking to see if something more important demanded his attention. He still leaves it on vibrate, but conspicuously doesn't check. I'm thisclose to asking him to please stuff it behind a cushion so that the vibrations are not as distracting.
If he knows in advance that there might be an emergency call, tells me that he needs to watch for it and take it if necessary, that would be fine and I'd understand completely. Fortunately he has a cell, so when it has happened, he's stepped outside. He hasn't asked me to leave. How rejecting is that?
I think your therapist handled it badly. Even if it was a genuine emergency, it could have been handled more graciously. Perhaps it's such an emergency that he temporarily lost his mind? That would be the most generous explanation I can think of.
And I absolutely think you should tell your therapist that you're feeling enough emergency yourself that you would like full concern when you're actually in session.
If your therapist has otherwise been good and attentive, I imagine it's a rupture that can be repaired. But in any case, my feelings would be hurt as well.
Posted by seldomseen on October 24, 2008, at 12:42:28
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
I'm so sorry your T did that. I would be hurt too.
However, on the bright side, you know he takes emergency calls, so why don't you call him?
Seriously though, It may be hard, but I would try to withold judgement until you know the whole story. It may be a family emergency that required his immediate attention. These things suck, but they do happen. Real life can intrude on our time.
Most importantly, I really don't think you have to just hang on until next week. I would definately try to talk to him, let him know how you feel and express to him very clearly that you think your situation is emergent as well.
It is sometimes hard to reach out like that, especially after a hurt, but it may be worth it.
Seldom
Posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 12:50:21
In reply to Re: p.s. » lucie lu, posted by healing928 on October 24, 2008, at 9:57:23
Healing,
I know what you are saying (and my subconscious is nodding vigorously!). But my experience was different. My T extended himself for me after-hours several times this week (extra session, evening phone call, wrote a letter for me in my dispute with my insurance company). Plus I was not in crisis in this session. My excusing the phone call was one of the few things he has asked me in return for all the extras he does for me. But that's my rational self talking; my irrational inner self had hurt feelings nonetheless, like Sid.
I think what Sid's T did was both insensitive and anti-therapeutic and he definitely should be called on it. Whether a silk purse can be made from this pig's ear, i.e. whether something therapeutically useful to Sid can be made of the incident at some point, is a separate issue.
Sid, I hope you did not feel my post in any way did not support your hurt feelings. I empathize with them and fully agree that your T needs to be taken to task for his actions, which I think were not only disrespectful but harmful to you. I wish you did not have to deal with this at a time when you are feeling particularly fragile and vulnerable.
Lucie
Posted by llurpsienoodle on October 24, 2008, at 20:12:29
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-( » obsidian, posted by seldomseen on October 24, 2008, at 12:42:28
hi sid,
just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you. Sounds like you're going through a rough patch, and like you're not confident that you've got the stuff to see your way through it. Please know that babblers are here for you, and I think your T is there for you too. This weekend might be tough, and I hope you can find the courage to ask him for more help if you need it. You deserve to feel better.
-Ll
Posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 20:53:13
In reply to my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by obsidian on October 23, 2008, at 22:55:28
Sid,
Could you call him over the weekend? Maybe reparation can be begun over the phone. Would seem fitting, under the circumstances.
L.
Posted by obsidian on October 24, 2008, at 21:53:24
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 20:53:13
he started the session by telling me he would be away next week
and then I started to tell him how I am so anxious I am ripping the skin around my fingers
and about how I might really want to have children, because I am not sure I can stand the thought of not having one
but how my boyfriend and I (who I have been with for 16 years without getting married) is not someone I feel connected with
It hurts me to think that they might experience him as a father (I mean as absent), and I just can't do it, can't let someone feel what that's like
and this is all coming up because one of my very precious friends, I mean a really good friend of mine called and wanted to know that I was really ok and not dead
but somehow the fact that she had children and moved away really gets me, but I really do care so much about her, so I am going to have to deal with some feelings because I think part of me is so very jealous, and I am having a hard time dealing with it
but then I tell him, it doesn't matter...I know nothing is going to change for me
If I want to have children I have to accept that their father will be unable to love them in some really important ways, and I don't know if I can handle that.One of the things I have done is get a kitten. A beautiful little kitten, an awkward sweet little thing. I am very concerned that this cat be not at all traumatized by me. When I have gotten angry at this cat, like when she's scratched me by accident, I have felt really badly, and I have to make it right. I am really invested in making sure she's not too scared about anything. ...and I think about what this world is like, and I think "how can I bring someone into this?"
but my boyfriend might have to move his job down south, and he has asked me a couple of times to move down there, and he didn't go because of me
so, I told him the other day...if you have to go there, then go, I'll stay up here and join you later...
and then there was the little conversation about "how are you going to take care of yourself?"by getting as high as I possibly can of course
Posted by Sigismund on October 24, 2008, at 23:28:26
In reply to but wait...there's more, posted by obsidian on October 24, 2008, at 21:53:24
After living together for more than a decade my partner informed me that she was going to have kids with or without me, so I agreed. My general position was that life was so awful that I wanted nothing to do with the creation of any more of it. 20 years later I still feel a bit like that, although it is certainly true that our life here is much better than my family of origin.
I don't know where my wife would be without having kids though. It's something she says a lot: "At least I'm glad I had a couple of kids".We also have a cat. We call her 'the cat' because she turned up here more than a year ago (or is it two?) and in all that time I have never touched her (she won't let anyone near her), nor has anyone else much. Something happened to the cat. Maybe someone tried to kill her or threw boiling water over her before she got here.
What you need Sid is money, isn't it?
Then you could just have a couple of kids, if that is what you want.
Posted by obsidian on October 24, 2008, at 23:54:08
In reply to Re: but wait...there's more » obsidian, posted by Sigismund on October 24, 2008, at 23:28:26
> We also have a cat. We call her 'the cat' because she turned up here more than a year ago (or is it two?) and in all that time I have never touched her (she won't let anyone near her), nor has anyone else much. Something happened to the cat. Maybe someone tried to kill her or threw boiling water over her before she got here.
yeah, my other cat I adopted when she was an adult after someone abandoned her
she's so scared of everything
>
> What you need Sid is money, isn't it?
> Then you could just have a couple of kids, if that is what you want.well money would make everything easier
but I don't know where that would come from
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2008, at 18:44:25
In reply to Re: but wait...there's more » Sigismund, posted by obsidian on October 24, 2008, at 23:54:08
We all need to plant money trees. Phillipa
Posted by obsidian on October 26, 2008, at 21:22:04
In reply to Re: my feelings were hurt today :-(, posted by lucie lu on October 24, 2008, at 20:53:13
it is so nice to be understood
especially when I am having feelings that I would rather not have, for a few reasons
I feel triggered
and I don't know what is reasonable to expect
I feel like a little kid
I am going to call him because I don't want to deal with these feelings for the next 2 weeks
I hope it goes ok
Posted by muffled on October 27, 2008, at 0:35:46
In reply to just wanted to say thanks to everyone........, posted by obsidian on October 26, 2008, at 21:22:04
Posted by lucie lu on October 27, 2008, at 10:32:51
In reply to just wanted to say thanks to everyone........, posted by obsidian on October 26, 2008, at 21:22:04
Posted by obsidian on October 28, 2008, at 22:24:28
In reply to Good luck! Hope all goes well (((((Sid)))) (nm) » obsidian, posted by lucie lu on October 27, 2008, at 10:32:51
Things are much better
It seems that somehow I "forget" that I am cared about
and I don't mean to say that I shouldn't feel annoyed by the situation, he said it was certainly reasonable
I mean that he just disappears, goes poof!
it's just that when I feel angry/hurt it also means that I expect somehow on an emotional level that my T just hates me and he has been storing up all this secret contempt for me just for this occasion
it was just such a relief to talk to him and know that it's ok
and I was able to talk about how hard some things are for me to think/talk about right now
I have been starting to think that a lot of things are going to fall apart right now
I'm afraid that a lot of things are not really reliable right now. It's nice to know that I can count on him.
it turns out that he had 2 emergencies in fact, one that kept the next person waiting for 40 minutes
geez, he's got some high maintenance folks to deal with, myself included ;-)
for the moment I feel much better just knowing that I can call if I need to
it was really nice to be responded to
thank goodness
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