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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:46:49
Hi all,
Just decided after two sessions of therapy that have left me decidedly unsettled that i am out of sorts with no reason why. And yes I spoke to T about it. All I could say over and over again is I don't know. I cried on Wednesday or Tuesday out of the blue, I mean really cried. My DH and DS were really taken aback. DH made dinner and both cleaned up afterwards. A major happening! I told my T that I have better conversations in my head than with him in person. Why I don't know. I can't stop the damn chatter in my head except with xanax. Those damned voices. My dreams are disturbing. I just am melancholy. I feel like I am broke and will always be. I dissociated again and why I can't figure out. I forgot to tell him that. Well not true. I did think about it I just did not tell him. Why, I don't know. It is like I don't care to be involved in therapy. I feel distant from the whole damned world. I am feeling less. Numb. Like my emotions are either absent or they spill over and I cry. I want to watch tv to keep myself out of my head. Well I am sorry if you have read this far and now are depressed because of reading this dribble.
Maybe I just cannot commit to therapy. I think, and I almost told my T this, that he is wasting his time with me. i am a lost cause.
rsk
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2008, at 12:53:45
In reply to Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:46:49
I feel the same way nothing is right chip in windshield of my car how who knows, no where to go , no money, no labs, no nothing including a T who the last one would say well go somewhere doesn't she realize it costs money gas and what not to go out in the car. Just cause she has money. RSK I do know what you mean. I slept til ll again and that is not good. And it's so cold out and Husband never talks to me just yells and complains. I feel for you. Are you on meds? As seems they just don't work for me and wonder if better off without them. Anyway hope you get a lot of support from your buddies. Love Phillipa
Posted by onceupon on October 20, 2008, at 13:05:41
In reply to Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:46:49
I hear the voice of Depression in what you're writing. It sounds loud and overpowering, and as if it might be drowning out other voices. So I'll shout: COME ON BACK, RSK! If you can. And if you can't right now, that's OK too. I don't know you, but I'm willing to talk if you'd like.
I doubt your therapist is wasting his time with you, and I'm willing to bet you're not a lost cause. Don't get me wrong, I think I know *exactly* where you're coming from and it's a painful place.
What would be most comforting for you right now? Tea? Sleep? Getting outside? Calming scents? Meditation? Driving aimlessly? Exercise? Snuggling up? I wish for you whatever might help you feel some peace.
Take care,
onceupon
Posted by lucie lu on October 20, 2008, at 15:57:44
In reply to Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:46:49
Rsk,
Im sorry you are feeling so down. It doesnt seem fair for you to be stuck with depression after the departure of your 2x4 outlaws (Ill bet *they* didnt leave depressed no justice!). I agree with onceupon: I too hear depression speaking. But not entirely. In a thread above, we were talking about ruptures, including the small and less obvious ones in session that are much harder to detect (and therefore tend not to get repaired). Maybe I'm completely off base but I wonder if there might be something you want and need from your T that you are not getting? Could you articulate what that would be? If such a "subtle rupture" existed between you, I would imagine it might lead to vague dissatisfaction with your T and the relationship between you, a sense of your therapy going nowhere, and a sense of disconnection with others (which also would feed into depression, dissociation etc). Just a hunch?
((((((((((((((((rsk)))))))))))))))))
Hope you feel better soon.
Lucie
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:10:10
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » rskontos, posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2008, at 12:53:45
Phillipa, I am on so many meds, Wellbutrin is suppose to give me energy and I was hoping for that high others get off of it. My dopamine levels are not high enough considering I am on it. I am taking stuff for thyroid and adrenal fatigue. I take alot of crap if you ask me.
I know thanks for your support. That is why I posted a thread here. Just to vent. On top of it all my ______hole father just makes me want to blow a gasket. i mean I should not care how he acts but I guess I still let him hurt my feelings. When will I learn.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:14:32
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by onceupon on October 20, 2008, at 13:05:41
Thanks onceupon,
Yea, I guess it is depression I told my T it was melancholy. In therapy I just can't say what I need to say. Hell I am not sure what I need to say.
I am exercising for now. I called my sister and talked to her. I feel better until I am alone. My inner voices won't leave me alone. I took a nap. I have thyroid and adrenal issues so I don't feel great.Maybe I should ask my t to up the wellbutrin.
And you are right he will not think he is wasting his time, I do. I just feel like I will always feel blah. That is how I feel blah.
Thanks for supporting me. It means alot.:)
rsk
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 16:23:46
In reply to Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 12:46:49
((( rsk )))
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:31:03
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » rskontos, posted by lucie lu on October 20, 2008, at 15:57:44
Lucie,
I and probably my T would say we have always fought connection. I have a hard time connecting. As my sister and I always joked, we always have a back door out of any situation. In our home life, that was necessary. And since escape physically wasn't always possible I escaped mentally (dissociating). I lost days sometimes weeks. Fugue states is what they call it. I have had people come up to me, call me by name and not know who the heck they were. Home life we all hide from the outside world and we hid our suffering too. It is what I still do.
It is I just don't know how to connect to my T. Was it Daisym, or was it you that said the first three years of therapy was spent rambling. Well I say I babble. I babble about nothing important. But I have done that for years with people to keep them at bay. I feel that I am doing that in therapy. That I just can't seem to tell him what is wrong because I don't know what it is. Every sat or sun before Monday's therapy the voices start humming. He asked me what are they saying. I told him I don't know but that is not really true. If I listen I do. Like today, I came home was so wiped out and laid down to nap and I could hear them. I just don't tell him. Because that is telling someone outside the secrets inside. You know what I mean. Secrets are not to be shared. I just don't know if I can share secrets with him or anyone. To go deep down into that pit of secrets to see what is there and then tell someone what is there. I don't know if that is possible. I don't know because of dissociating what is there but I do know it is bad. with capital letters. And to let it out, what if I can't contain it. You know. There are so many images that aren't clear that are fuzzy but I know in my heart of hearts what is there and if I keep going on with him I might spill it. I am not sure if I can do that and survive. I think that is what is at the heart of it.
I tried to opt out therapy by telling him I can't afford it anymore. I can't my insurance quit paying the paltry amount they were paying, and he says that is ok, no more money needed until you are working and making your own money. And if you never are then no problem. Yikes, I could not get over him doing that. It took me weeks to understand his reasons and I am still not sure I really understand it. I kept asking him why would you do this. He is doing this because he cares to see how I get better. And what if I can't get better.
I am in quandry of muck. That is how I feel. I feel I am getting too close to stuff I have a hard time sharing and I feel pressured to do so, so then the voices inside buzz like a chain saw, saying no don't do it.
Man, I did not think I would reveal all of this and I need to just hit submit before I rethink it and delete this. You might be sorry you ask.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:31:57
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 16:23:46
Posted by muffled on October 20, 2008, at 17:45:24
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » lucie lu, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:31:03
I write, I write ALOT to T.
It is my primary way of decent communication.
Take care RSK.
M
Posted by lucie lu on October 20, 2008, at 18:40:19
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » lucie lu, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:31:03
I am certainly not sorry I asked because I like long replies to questions I ask :) Daisy might have said the same, but I did say that the first couple of years of therapy were spent babbling (no offense to this community). I had no idea that the stuff that was really important to say was exactly the stuff I could not imagine actually saying to someone else. I hated going to therapy and sitting there talking about nothing important and making no connection to the person I was talking to, even though he purported to be interested in me. So who was this me he was interested in anyway? And who the heck was he?
What happened was - and I'm not kidding here - that I was watching an episode of Law and Order SVU (Special Victims Unit) and suddenly I was getting upset and actually wanted someone to talk to about it. That was the beginning, and although there was at least another year or two of going back and forth over connecting with my T, the process had begun and that really started the therapy. It sounds to me like you are just about where I was just before that SVU episode - doesn't matter how many years into it you are, when it happens, it just happens. Sounds like your T, like mine, is just sitting there waiting for you to be ready. And I absolutely agree with muffled, writing things out was for the longest time, the best I could do with those things that were so hard to talk about. Maybe start with just honestly listening to what one of the voices is saying and write it down. That is a first step. Then when you're ready you can share it. Hopefully by then you will have written down a lot of things, so you'll have a lot to choose from!
You can lurk if you want, but I like hearing from you :)
Lucie
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2008, at 20:11:38
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » Phillipa, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 16:10:10
RSK keep talking it is helping I can tell. Love Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 20:54:54
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it, posted by muffled on October 20, 2008, at 17:45:24
Thanks Muffled
It has been a long time since I wrote mine. Instead I cried today, gave myself a hellva headache and then ate a bunch of peanut mm's.
Oh well,
I will try to write tomorrow.
thanks for the encouragement.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 21:05:22
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, can't understand it » rskontos, posted by lucie lu on October 20, 2008, at 18:40:19
Thanks Lucie,
It is funny I have shared with him some of the abuse my mother heaped on me. You see, some history, I went to this pdoc in crisis. He is retired mostly and only takes a few clients here and there. Why he took me I don''t know , he almost referred me to someone else. It took me an 1 hour and 45 minutes to drive to his office and he is actually only 15 minutes from my house. Long story. Anyway, I ask him sometimes if he regrets it and he of course says no.
So I have disclosed some. But the actually nitty gritty, I don't have. I have physical memories. My body will have flashbacks and I have flashbacks of faces but that is it. It is enough I have gotten past have panic attacks when these flashbacks happen.
my real fear is that underneath all this there is more down there that needs to come out and that is the really scary stuff. Not that my mother's cruelty wasn't bad enough it was, and my father's lack of loving us as children is bad enough, and my mother's parade of lovers she took us with her to visit, that all was bad enough. But I am really afraid there is something more. My flashbacks had a quality to them that frightened me. I am scared if I go deeper with him I will get to that point of uncovering it. I am not sure that i need to do that. My brain at this point isn't sharing yet just glimmers when I sleep and during flashbacks. I used to open my mind to these flashbacks I don't now yet they slip in. I am tired of the faces of people I don't know that I know hurt me. So I have done all I can to try and keep it back. That isn't good is it?
I just don't know. I don't know if I am not venturing down a slippery slope.
Am I making any sense?
thanks for listening.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on October 21, 2008, at 16:33:38
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, possible trigger » lucie lu, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2008, at 21:05:22
Rsk, actually you did make very good sense.
OK you may bite me on the leg for this, but I just wonder whether some of your "funky" mood has something to do with where you are in your therapy. (Not eliminating the contributions from your in-laws, who would put anyone in a funk.) I have a sense that you are actually considering the possibility of letting your T in, and getting started on some of the more in-depth stuff, you are just afraid, and understandably so. I suspect you really like your T and he, you, but the whole job seems so tough that it's hard to believe anything good might come of it. But you must suspect that it would, or you wouldn't be in therapy, right?
About the slippery slope (and not all have to do with sex)... I think that how an experienced T (which yours certainly sounds like) will approach things is rather like the way an experienced guide will take serious mountain climbers to the top of a serious mountain (e.g. Everest). I know someone, a friend of a friend, who does this for a living and it is amazing, she is about 60 and she doesn't look like a world-class athlete but she takes people up all of the most challenging peaks in the world. She's "done" Everest several times. She says fitness is important, but 95% is preparation, preparation, preparation. And then more preparation. OK, back to the point... the way they do this is in stages, and it's all about survival. They go so far in a day and then they make base camp. To make the camp element-proof and avoid depleting their energies (which could be fatal in the Himalayas), they spend more time making base camp and preparations than climbing. They also rest so their bodies can slowly acclimate to the increasing altitutude. They may actually stay there a day or more, depending upon the weather. The ultimate goal here is always to survive the climb. Then when they're ready and the weather accommodates, they climb up another segment and then make another camp. They keep doing this all the way up. If there are any problems, they go back down some and regroup. I think you can see where I'm going with this metaphor. If your T is an experienced guide, he will help you explore your past in a similar way. Get to one point safely and then regroup, make base camp, acclimate to the altitude. Only when all systems are go do you attempt the next climb. It is totally reasonable for you to fear having things come at you before you are prepared to handle them and have all the necessary tools. That would be fatal in mountain-climbing as well. Remember it's all about preparation and taking time to consolidate - and it is absolutely imperative to always have a stable base camp to return to.
If I'm off-base, rsk, then at least you have learned something interesting about mountain climbing (lol). But if you really might be considering the climb, maybe you can talk to your T about how it can be done safely and in stages and what safety equipment and expertise will be needed along the way. I'm sure he would understand the metaphor.
Lucie
Posted by rskontos on October 22, 2008, at 17:01:26
In reply to Re: Just out of sorts, possible trigger » rskontos, posted by lucie lu on October 21, 2008, at 16:33:38
Lucie,
I appreciate a very thoughtful insightful response. And you are right. I am weighing the pros and cons on continuing. I am not in crisis. Maybe I could stop therapy now and be ok. I don't know.
I know there is more un-dealt with feelings, I can feel it deep inside. I was reading something today, I thought quite innocent in nature and yet I got that unsettled, fearful feeling that lays deep inside my stomach. It is all related to childhood trauma. I got all panicky and just sick inside. And the rest of the day I have had a headache. I needed to sleep but couldn't. I did exercise but it didn't help. I want to cry. I did cry. I cried last night. I can't stop the water works.Oh well, thanks for the encouragement.
I will tell him on monday. How I feel I mean. He told me a while back that I would try to bolt again. He knows me.
rsk
This is the end of the thread.
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