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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
In a previous thread (JayMacs How often do you), I read twinleaf's account of her termination from a previous T. It fascinated me almost as much as if she'd had an afterlife experience! (You can see what my feelings about termination are.) Anyway, her account gave me much to hope for, and gave me a new way to look at things from someone who'd already been there.
In another previous thread (For Jay, Turtle, and FMD), I also summarized the stages my therapy moved through over 6 years from the perspective of the therapeutic relationship and how it has changed with time. The post was intended to give hope to others that the craziest, most painful feelings eventually pass but they do contribute to an attachment that offers a powerful route to healing..
I, for one, would love to read other people's narratives about the stages the therapy has passed through, how their relationships with their Ts have changed with time etc. Particularly if you've been in therapy a long time, would you care to tell your story? And even if you haven't been in therapy as long as me and Dinah :) I'd personally love to hear all stories, especially about the client-T relationship, which we are all experiencing in its many variations. I find it so helpful to hear about how other people's experiences are similar and different to mine. It really helps me gain perspective.
Rather than reply to this thread, it might be best to start new threads so people can respond to you and also so your response doesn't get buried in this one. Just a suggestion.
Thanks, Lucie
Posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 18:03:12
In reply to Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
I think I have you all beat! I've been in therapy w/the same T for ...(drum roll, please).. 17 years!!! (Am I sick or what? I'm only speaking for myself, here, so please don't take offense
anyone.)
I've been through so many stages, I'm not sure I could remember them all.
antigua
Posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 20:01:14
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories?, posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 18:03:12
> I think I have you all beat! I've been in therapy w/the same T for ...(drum roll, please).. 17 years!!! (Am I sick or what? I'm only speaking for myself, here, so please don't take offense
> anyone.)
>
> I've been through so many stages, I'm not sure I could remember them all.
> antiguaI think you definitely do win the prize, Antigua. I assume this is with your nice woman T and not the pdoc whose ankle I would like to sink my teeth into? grrrr
Still it would be interesting to hear how things have changed with you over the years. Or even how she's changed - what was she like when you first started going to her? What is she like now?
My T has lost hair over the past 6 years (he's 61) and has grown a beard, but otherwise he seems the same to me...Lucie
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 17, 2008, at 8:26:37
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 20:01:14
Well, my story (5 years) is probably different from anyone else's (the reason I went to a t); got a divorce after 31 years of abuse, and my church wanted me to reconcile, etc......a friend of mine told me about a t who is also a pastor, and expert in the field of spiritual abuse.
He journeyed with me for 18 months while I fought the spiritually abusive system. i did this to try and prevent the pastor (of disaster) from "counseling" any more women, because 2 of them wanted to commit suicide (because of his "counseling" skills).
In the end, on my birthday, no less....my name was put up on a big screen, followed by the words" Conduct Unbecoming a Child of God."
Something beautiful came out of the ashes, though: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com (my faith-based website of anguish, healing, hope and comfort....poured forth from my wounded soul). It's been a phenomenon.
Unfortunately, our souls/spirits connected. I am still with him, and he revealed things to me, that has made it more difficult.
When A t says he is: "Torn, and confused, scared and conflicted." I could write a book at what he has said and done that is provocative.
Logically, I get what is going on, but emotionally, I am not ready to leave him.
One of the best books I ever read: "Sex in the Forbidden Zone" by Peter Rutter (its' about being betrayed by professionals/doctors, pastors, attorneys, teachers, etc....
For me, being alone is the most excruciatingly painful thing I have ever endured (as close to death a one can get)....so for me to get a divorce took all of the courage I had.
In other words, I confronted by biggest (only) fear in life: that of being alone.
I started school last year (age 61), and won a scholarship; it was easy; all I had to do was write about my life.
If anyone wants to know other stuff, etc....I was published; www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled; The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse
Love to all, Sassy
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2008, at 8:47:30
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories?, posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 18:03:12
That's the second longest I've heard, next to Therapygirl. Although I may be missing someone.
:)
It gives me something to look forward to. My therapist reassured me that yes, as long as he's around and I'm around, I can totter over to his nursing home from my nursing home, remind him who I am and why I'm there, and we can have our session. (Mind you, he didn't put it quite that way, but that was the final visualization between the two of us.)
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2008, at 8:50:08
In reply to Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
I think I'll try to do that, if the incessant posting on my part over the past seven years hasn't bored everyone stiff on the topic. :)
Posted by lucie lu on October 17, 2008, at 8:53:00
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories?, posted by sassyfrancesca on October 17, 2008, at 8:26:37
Sassy,
Thank you for sharing your story. It helps me understand how you came to have such strong feelings for your T. I didn't know the details of the church thing, although some of your posts had alluded to it. I confess that I cannot understand any church throwing out a member any more than I can understand a T abandoning a patient, but I know it happens. It must have been very traumatic, and I can see how you would have become very attached to someone who supported you and stayed with you throughout the ordeal. I hope that the pastoral counselor was censured but fear that he wasn't, is that right? Is there a place you can file a complaint against a pastoral counselor as you can a licensed therapist? I'm sorry you had to go through that ordeal.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your story. It helps me understand you better.
Hugs,
Lucie
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 17, 2008, at 9:44:25
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories? » sassyfrancesca, posted by lucie lu on October 17, 2008, at 8:53:00
> Sassy,
>
> Thank you for sharing your story. You are very welcome!It helps me understand how you came to have such strong feelings for your T. Yes, he was the 1st person who ever stood up for me in my life.....plus the chemistry was/is....amazing. he even admitted it.
I didn't know the details of the church thing, although some of your posts had alluded to it. I confess that I cannot understand any church throwing out a member any more than I can understand a T abandoning a patient, but I know it happens. It must have been very traumatic,
It was, but I was amazingly calm and strong throughout...it was all about principles.
and I can see how you would have become very attached to someone who supported you and stayed with you throughout the ordeal. I hope that the pastoral counselor was censured
Not a chance.
but fear that he wasn't, is that right? Is there a place you can file a complaint against a pastoral counselor as you can a licensed therapist?
No, it's an independent church; no place to go, although I did get an attorney and got a few dollars out of him/church.
I'm sorry you had to go through that ordeal. Thankyou, sweetie!
>
> Anyway, thank you for sharing your story. It helps me understand you better.Thanks, again ...and
Hugs, Sassy
>
> Hugs,
>
> Lucie
Posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2008, at 12:48:48
In reply to Re: Invitation to share stories? » lucie lu, posted by sassyfrancesca on October 17, 2008, at 9:44:25
Oh you guys triggered the only therapist I ever had that I clicked with she was in the pdocs office and he disagreed on how she was couselling me and I liked her and then he wouldn't let me see her anymore said he would handle the couselling. Tried to find her when he closed that practice and never could. Just can't win. Love Phillipa l7 years of theraphy wow I will be dead in that long most likely.
Posted by seldomseen on October 18, 2008, at 8:43:32
In reply to Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
I've been in therapy 7 or 8 years, I honestly can't remember which any more. I think it is closer to 8.
The first couple of years was just chit chat really coupled with me constantly testing him to see if he would leave.
In year 3 we got down to business and I developed a strong paternal and sexual transference. It was soooo painful. So we dealt with that for about two years. It's amazing that I didn't actually quit, but I guess the chit chatting years helped me to build a lot of trust. I also gotta admit, he hung right in there with me while I basically beat my head against the therapeutic boundary.
He made some mistakes and I certainly did too, but we stuck it out. Actually, I think those mistakes ended up helping me (and us) to build trust. He's not at all afraid to say "yeah I totally screwed that up and I'm sorry". I've apologized so many times I can't even count them. I know he trusts me too.
I'm still very sensitive to perceived rejection and minimization by him, but I'm getting much better.
Now we have a kind of steady relationship I guess. Like any relationship there are bumps but we work them out. I just don't let things fester and most importantly, I trust what he says. However, there is an ebb and flow of fellings and frustrations still to this day.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2008, at 10:13:46
In reply to Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
I always say that it took me five years to trust, another five years to trust the trust, and we were just building on that trust to reach the really deep stuff when Katrina hit and blew everything to smithereens. We were evacuated for a month, he moved a conservative three hours away to Lafayette, and had every intention of staying there. He told me he didn't think he could remain my therapist.
I was hysterical of course, but told him I'd of course drive three hours each way to see him. I then drove to have sessions when I was evacuated to Shreveport and he was staying with someone kind enough to take his family in, in Lafayette. We had a session in a stranger's home, with dogs and cats wandering in, and with him in his evacuation clothes (shorts). I brought him a printout of a thread that I started on Babble "To Dinah's Therapist", and that meant an awful lot to him. I could tell it really touched him. I would email him with information I'd heard on the radio, that might be of assistance to him and to his family. Not often of course, but I listened to the radio on my computer, while he apparently didn't. So I'd hear the scraps of information and forwarded them to him, and he did find it very helpful.
When my family returned, and in the midst of one of the most traumatic periods of my life, he told me he was going out of the country on a job for a month. It was structured so that I wouldn't see him for six weeks, starting immediately without even a session to process it. He had already moved, he was taking this job, and he was open about the fact that he was excited about this out of country job and would probably take more like it.
I found another therapist. Well I went through one on my way to the second, T2 and T3. Pickings were understandably slim, as everyone had left town and the few who came back were leaving again. T3 actually did end up leaving in the end, along with my pdoc and most of my other doctors. And they didn't come back.
My therapist's work did keep bringing him back to New Orleans, and we were able to schedule once a week meetings most weeks. He wasn't very good in those New Orleans meetings. He was tired and stressed. Also, I did drive to Lafayette in those periods of time when it was feasible to take a day off work. Ten months after Katrina, he moved back. Another few months after that, he was somewhat back to himself.
Our relationship was forever changed by Katrina. It became more mutual I think. I don't think he forgot how I tried to help him during the evacuation, and I don't think he forgot my commitment to continue seeing him. I drove him totally nuts during that time, and was an added source of stress to him. And he wasn't a heck of a lot of good to me either. But even so, I think my commitment meant something to him, and he grew to be fond of me.
Of necessity there was more mutuality in many ways during that time. And once the box is opened, it's tough and tricky to stuff everything back in without harm. While we managed to swing the focus back where it should be in therapy, he does now self disclose far more than he used to. And I think it works for us. There is probably also a greater mutuality in other ways that might be frowned on in textbook cases. But Katrina sort of threw out the textbooks. The important boundaries have always been kept, and will always be kept. They're important to both of us.
I guess since then, the relationship has entered a companionate stage. Although Im allowed to move it back to the infant or child/parent stage whenever I need to do that. Hes more of a real person to me, not just a therapist/mommy. I think that even if Katrina hadnt come around, this would have been the natural progression in the maturation of the therapy relationship.
In the first five years, he taught me a lot of CBT stuff which I found helpful. I did a lot of pushing and pulling and testing and acting out. I must have quit a dozen times. I was rude and horrid to him on a number of occasions. I would tell him things like "I feel nothing for you. I won't miss you at all." or "I don't need you. You can just rent me this office. It's the office that helps me." Apparently I said them with a fair amount of believability. He had his own countertransference difficulties with me, which he actually blurted out on one memorable occasion. You'd think that would have been a bad thing, but it actually turned out to be the turning point in our relationship. I knew I wasn't crazy, that what I was picking up on was real, and there was a reason for how I was feeling. And he was horrorstruck and apparently sought supervision because he stopped acting on the countertransference by the next session.
It took him another two or three years past the fifth year of therapy for him to trust me. During that time he would treat me as if I was still the client who would quit on a regular basis, or would say really hurtful things to him. It was inexplicable to me because those days were over and finished as far as I was concerned, and I couldn't figure out why he kept harping on them. We had another of those watershed moments. I told him to look at me! I hadn't done those things in years, and I wasn't going to do them. I had changed but he hadn't accepted that I had changed. Look at me! And he did, and he started to trust me. But even before he trusted me, I trusted him enough that parts of me emerged in therapy. The first five years of turmoil had let that happen. I trusted him to treat me with respect and kindness no matter what he felt internally.
All of that time, the relationship was therapist/mommy to client/infant(or toddler or young child). The attachment was pretty insecure until very recently. I never believed he cared about me. I picked up way too much on the negative stuff he was actually feeling about me.
I think when I put it that way, it sounds a lot worse than it was. It was certainly turbulent. But through all of it, he provided something that I had never found anywhere else and that I desperately needed. He was my safety. The embodiment of safety for me. From the very first I was terrified of losing him (for all I tested him) because to lose him would be to lose my safety.
Posted by lucie lu on October 18, 2008, at 16:57:09
In reply to Invitation to share stories?, posted by lucie lu on October 16, 2008, at 16:42:39
I'm glad you all decided to post your stories. I find, for myself, that reading these helps me know you all better. Also may be helpful to newer and prospective babblers who may yet be lurking :) There are things that we take for granted that others know about us, so our posts can sound like stories started in the middle. I am always amazed by the range and depth of experience of everyone on babble.
Thanks for sharing.
Lucie
This is the end of the thread.
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