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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
T and I did some really good work in the trust department last week; but, it feels like that, and more, was eroded today. We talked some about the fact that I'm not sleeping well and am having terrible nightmares. She mentioned last week that there were medicines that could help with those. Today, she mentioned Trazodone specifically. All she said was that it helped with anxiety and bad dreams.
So, I came home and looked it up. It's an antidepressant and one of the common side effects I see listed everywhere is "vivid dreams and nightmares." I did verify that it does, indeed, help with anxiety; but, that seems to be the only truthful thing she said. In my opinion, for the sake of complete honesty, particularly given our history, she should have mentioned it was an antidepressant. That information, she MUST have known. The fact she didn't make that clear leaves me feeling like she's just trying a round about way of getting me to do what she wants me to do. Plus, why the HELL would I want to take something with a common side effect that worsens the very thing I want to fix?? It all leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth and trusting her a WHOLE lot less.
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 12, 2007, at 16:30:14
In reply to Trust built and then eroded, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
I take trazadone and it did not make my dreams more vivid and nightmares are not a big problem for me.
What it really did do was help me to sleep.
I would specifically ask her if she has had patients on trazadone before and what their experiences have been.
I don't think it is necessarily fair to indict her without first hearing her reasons for saying that.
Please keep in mind that bad (sometimes) fatal rashes are a black box warning for lamictal, but my therapist has over 100 patients on it and has never seen a single case.
I realize that it is so hard to trust anyone sometimes and at the first sign of a betrayal (perceived or otherwise) the natural tendency is to bolt. I mean running is the best way to keep yourself protected right?
Another thing I learned in therapy is that one of the keys to relationships is coming to realize that you are going to be hurt, you are going to be disappointed and you may even be betrayed. It's just going to happen, but that doesn't mean that the whole relationship is bad, just that you need to talk about it.
Love to you and take care
Posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 16:49:25
In reply to Re: Trust built and then eroded, posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 12, 2007, at 16:30:14
Thank you for telling me your experience with trazodone. It helps to know it's worked well for you.
I do realize the difference in the types and kinds and probabilities of different potential side effects. Trazodone has some biggies that, on the surface, look scary; but, those don't worry me so much, because they are rare. I mentioned the nightmares because they are listed a *common* and they're a problem I have already. So, that worries me....mainly because I have them about things that happened when I was a kid and they're horrible and I don't want anything to make them worse....I can barely tolerate them as they are.
As for my T, I'm not wanting to run. I'm really sorry if what I wrote implied that because it's not at all what I meant. I like her in a whole bunch of ways. It's just that medication related issues are where a lot of my trust issues with her come from and she knows that. And because of that I'd think it'd be pretty clear to her how important complete disclosure is.
Of course, she may have just been throwing trazodone out there as an example of something that's helped other patients, and not as a recommendation. Whatever the case, you're exactly right, it's something we'll need to talk about.
Thank you again for writing. Knowing your experience helps. I'm not trying to knock any particular med, or meds in general; I just felt like maybe she was trying to "pull the wool over my eyes," so to speak.
Posted by zenhussy on June 12, 2007, at 18:14:23
In reply to Re: Trust built and then eroded » Nathan_Arizona, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 16:49:25
*oh! eat with it. for some ppl it can be stomach bomb. not everyone of course.
pb and toast or crackers or milk or something a tiny bit substantial to go with alleviated that quickly.
nathan_arizona is very wise with his/her answer. can't add much more than the bit above.
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2007, at 18:14:36
In reply to Trust built and then eroded, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
Well, my therapist is frankly ignorant about meds. It isn't their area of expertise, unless she's also a psychiatrist. He hears that this or that works, but he'd never recommend anything in particular for me.
Unless she's a psychiatrist, I'd guess she hasn't read the documentation from the drug company. She's probably got word of mouth reports, or knows what psychiatrists prescribe in similar cases.
I wouldn't let it shake your trust in her intentions, although perhaps she oughtn't be so specific in her recommendations if she's not an MD or psychologist licensed to prescribe.
Posted by Dory on June 12, 2007, at 21:00:15
In reply to Trust built and then eroded, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
well jammer i am the reigning queen of sleep walking, talking, nightmares and the like. i once woke up with grass on my feet. i often wake up talking to the alarm clock. i have had vivid dreams and nightmares all my life.. so much so that i used to believe some dreams were memories until i was old enough to know they could not have been true.
my pdoc gave me clonazepam(klonopin) for now b/c i have restless legs. That is what i use but i don't find it helps with the dream issues much. i have halcion as a sleep aid when i need it. It wears off fast so you don't have hang over effect. i didn't have nightmares and such when taking it..i am just out cold.
any introduction of an antidepressent or other psychotropic drug can cause vivid dreaming... as does changing doses.. some drugs moreso than others.
have you tried a simple muscle relaxant? if you were in canada i'd say just go buy some robaxacet. So you'd have to get a doc to give it to you. It has helped me fall asleep in a relaxed state, and that helps prevent nightmares. Just a thought.
If the nightmares are from stress then maybe try yoga...it can do *amazing* things for your body and mind... or acupuncture.
just trying to toss out ideas...
Posted by muffled on June 13, 2007, at 0:02:47
In reply to Re: Trust built and then eroded, posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 12, 2007, at 16:30:14
Nathans post was fantastic.
I esp liked:
>Another thing I learned in therapy is that one of the keys to relationships is coming to realize that you are going to be hurt, you are going to be disappointed and you may even be betrayed. It's just going to happen, but that doesn't mean that the whole relationship is bad, just that you need to talk about it.Cuz that is SO true, and its what my T says too.
And strangley talking thru sh*t that comes up DOES help.
Go figger.
Take care Jammer.
Muffled
Posted by fiji on June 13, 2007, at 12:30:12
In reply to Trust built and then eroded, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
Hi,
If you go to the meds board you will find a lot of people experienced with trazadone, good and bad. I would recommend it.For me, I take 1/2 trazadone at bedtime. It doesn't help me fall asleep (klonopin if I need it does that), but it does help me sleep through the night and I usually feel pretty good in the morning. A whole tablet was too much for me--gave me a hangover.
I think trazadone is one of the oldest tricyclics (sp) and isn't used very often, in my experience, as a full-fledged anti-depressant.
I did have some vivid dreams for a while (but that could have been the Cymbalta starting up too), but they quickly went away.
So, I don't think your dr had any ulterior motive because trazadone is really used for sleep most often now.
Good luck,
fiji
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 18, 2007, at 11:55:36
In reply to Trust built and then eroded, posted by jammerlich on June 12, 2007, at 13:20:52
Therapy is a great place to talk about med-related anxiety. If your therapist is recommending that you see a pdoc, why not give it a shot. Tell the pdoc straight out that you're not really that interested in medication, but that your therapist has brought it up on several occasions.
You need more information (from a licensed, board-certified professional) before you choose to embark on some pharmacological therapy. There is a lot of research, however, that supports the idea that medication+therapy provides more benefits than either alone.
There are a lot of people on the meds board who have extensive experience. Just post that you're new to meds, considering meds, scared of meds (whatever) and you'll no doubt get a lot of people with experience and opinions.
This seems to be a major sticking point in your relation with your T. Is it because you're worried that your T doesn't accept you just the way you are? That's just a thought. I'm pretty sure that I'm wrong, but I thought I'd throw it out.
May be time for a Llurpsielist, in which you make a list of all the reasons why your T's suggestion makes you feel rotten, and see which one hits you the hardest in the gut. That fear/anxiety is worth discussing. Nathan is SO right about this. As risky as it may seem, upsetting, it has the possibility of moving your trust and your communication to a new level.
take care,
-Ll
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