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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 7:51:31
If you go, what happens? If you are scared of suicidal thoughts but are not near acting on them? Are you stuck there? Can you leave? Will they drug me? If I tell my T I dont feel safe can she make me go? What if I say no I am not going? One of my biggest fears is feeling trapped. I couldnt go if I didnt feel that i could leave.
Posted by jammerlich on June 7, 2007, at 8:12:12
In reply to how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger??, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 7:51:31
((((Bent)))) I'm so sorry. You must be feeling pretty awful to be thinking about the hospital.
I've never been, so it's hard for me to answer your questions; but, I really wanted you to know that someone was here and reading. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that it's generally easier to leave if you go willingly and check yourself in. Usually, if you go by force, they hold you for a set period of time (3 days, here) and then the court will take the advice of the treatment team when deciding whether to keep you after that point. But, if you check yourself in, you can check yourself out whenever you want. I think the only exception to that might be if the team there thinks you're an imminent danger to yourself. I hope someone who knows more will come along and give you the information that you need.
Please take good care and do what you need to do to be safe. I'll be thinking about you today.
Posted by sunnydays on June 7, 2007, at 9:02:16
In reply to Re: how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger?? » bent, posted by jammerlich on June 7, 2007, at 8:12:12
I've never been to the hospital either, but I think your T generally wouldn't force you. She would probably encourage you to check yourself in willingly so that you could leave, but I don't think they use forceful hospitalization unless you are an imminent danger to yourself. And even then sometimes they don't.
sunnydays
Posted by Dory on June 7, 2007, at 9:30:53
In reply to Re: how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger?? » jammerlich, posted by sunnydays on June 7, 2007, at 9:02:16
my H has been hospitalized numerous times, both willingly and unwillingly. Your T can only do anything if you are about to act on suicidal thoughts, but you should clarify with him/her where their boundaries are about that so you can feel comfortable. That's what i did because i needed to be able to talk about the feelings without fear of being locked up.
Your big factor is risk. How much of a risk are you to yourself and others? That is what docs are trying to determine. How long you have to stay depends on their determination of that, and quite frankly other factors such as the particular doc you're talking to, the funding of the hospital, insurance vs none, etc. Basically, the less risk you are the quicker you get to leave, but it's subject to a lot of other factors.
If you are told to go by your pdoc or T they are generally aiming for a self-admittance under recommendation. That is not the same as being forced, but you cannnot just leave when you please. Generally it means 24 to 72 hrs hold so they can observe and stabilize you. If you are really forced, as in kicking and screaming and refusing to self-admit, then it's generally a madidtory 72hr hold and must be confirmed by 2 pdocs (that's the law here anyway). My H referred himself and then when he threw a fit and threatened to check himself out he was informed that he was under hold.
My pdoc has told me that if he really felt i needed to go and wouldn't he;d have the police pick me up. Thats what they do here, i don't know about where you are. They called the police when H pitched a fit in the ER too.
Generally speaking, and again this depends on where you are, insurance, etc, you would have to be pretty out there to be forced to stay longer than you feel you need to... they likely will make you stay until a pdoc assesses you.
If you have been admitted, but pose no risk to yourself or others, they have to release you after 72hrs if you request reassessment. i am pretty sure the 72hr thing is pretty standard. Even if they want you to stay you can still check out under what they call AMA (against medical adice).
So, the worst possible thing is a 24-72hr hold for suicidal behaviour. Which is better than being dead.
Talk to your T about the limits she/he has and maybe make an agreement about it.
Posted by B2chica on June 7, 2007, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger??, posted by Dory on June 7, 2007, at 9:30:53
Hi Bent...
for some reason i can't read your post...but i can the others. so i'm not sure exactly what you were asking...but i have been in the hosp...several times, and a couple of times i was place in the county facility. here's my 2c.if you have any doubt PLEASE admit yourself! this is Very important!
Dory's post was right on.(all of it) typical is 24-72 hour stay...sometimes longer depending...usually on medication issues.
once when my T knew i was going to attempt he called an EPC on me (emergency protective custody). the police and ambulance (and firetruck i'm sad to say) all showed up at my door. they took me into custody, the hospital first to get the lovely charcoal, then off to the county holding 'center'. at this point you loose all credibility for making your own decisions. this is NOT good! also my future relied on county paid workers...again, not good. they were not "top o' the line' professionals. i hate to say it but it's true. i was also put in with a miriad of others, from persons with schizophrenia, to prison half-ways, to those trying to get off drugs (waiting for rehab to open up). very scary were some.the hospital on the other hand was very nice. the people there knew i was dealing with severe problems psychologically and chemically. they were patient and helpful.
it was very scary the first time i admitted myself but my best friend came with me holding my hand the whole time. he was great.
but definately trust your T, if you don't find one you can. it is VERY important to be able to tell them when you think you are in danger...or the other side when you are just wanting to 'talk' about S and not actually do it...some T's are gun shy and recommend hospital and any little sign, so know where your T stands.
hope this helps.
and let us know how you are doing.
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on June 7, 2007, at 12:34:29
In reply to how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger??, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 7:51:31
don't know what was going on, but i can read your post now.
don't worry about being trapped at the hospital...the insurance companies run it...you'd be lucky if they keep you in long enough rather than too long. sometimes it's only a 24 hour stay...though typically it's three (72 hours).when you go. you admit YOURSELF in.(see other post) they take vitals and ask you a billion questions...leading up to why you are there. if they admit you, you go to the affective disorders unit (or whatever it's called). depending if its night or day...during day our hospital has mini 'classes' that you are required to attend...all talking to you about coping skills and some such. i guess it keeps you from laying like a log in your bed all day (which i did do sometimes). then a pdoc comes to see you, evaluates your situation and typically adds/changes medications (depending). then from assessing you each day (rating depression, S.ideation and such) they decide when you should go home.
if you seem pretty emotionally healthy and you ask to go earlier, they will sometimes do it...but our hosp was pretty strong on you staying the 72 hours... mostly for monitoring...course i had a history so i'm sure that didn't help my case any.
unless you are showing signs of hurting yourself or others they will not keep you.
remember if the insurance won't pay them they don't want you there, and they have to prove you NEED to be there.my best words would be if you go, expect a three day stay and make the most of it...rest, detach from the rest of the world while you are there. and take advantage of any programs they offer you. they are there to help.
best wishes
b2c.
Posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 17:42:34
In reply to how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger??, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 7:51:31
Thank you guys for responding. I guess my questions about going to the hosp were more than just 'curiosity.' I think I am trying to put in place a plan to follow should I feel worse. Which at times wouldn’t be very much. I would say that that 3 0r 4 times this week I have fallen into this near-hysterical yet short lived mood/thing/breakdown...I really don’t know what to call it. However, during this I get worried because I start thinking that I have nothing worthwhile. I don’t want to go home; I don’t want to go to work. I just want to get away from everything. I am so sick of trying. Just last Tuesday my pdoc doubled my Lamictal and dropped my lexapro (I am wondering if that is helping this moodiness?) I don’t think about hurting myself but I think about thinking about it. And when I do that I cry more and more. Right now I feel ok. I got home from work a blubbering mess (the same way I got to work actually). Most of the day was fine, but I was so bad when I got home I took some ativan and went to bed. But in all I am thinking, I have a therapist I love and she always welcomes my calls, why dont i just call her?? I have never really been in a crisis situation and not felt better after talking to her. Even if tomorrow works out to be a good day, I am thinking maybe I should call her just to let her know how bad things have been. And how it worries me a little going into the weekend when she may not be as accessible. Do you think that’s ok? Just to let her know about this even if I am feeling ok at the time. In my heart I know my T would be fine with it. I guess I just want reassurance from others.
Sorry this is so long. But I feel a little lighter having written this.
Thanks.
Posted by OzLand on June 7, 2007, at 19:22:41
In reply to how does the hospital work? *maybe trigger??, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 7:51:31
If you go in as a voluntary patient and you want to leave before the doctor thinks you are ready, you will probably have to give notice of anything from three to five working days and excluding weekends depending on the state you live in. If they think you are a risk of harm to self or others, then that gives the doctor time to have you committed involuntarily. When I went in for ECT, the state I am in, I had the choice of informal admission, voluntary admission, or involuntary admission. I went in on an informal admission which meant I did not have to sign a five day notice that I wanted to leave the hospital. I could leave anytime during working hours. Of course, if I was suicidal, they could have stopped me but would have had to act quickly.
Posted by frida on June 7, 2007, at 20:41:20
In reply to update and perhaps clarity. *maybe slight trigger, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 17:42:34
hi..
I just wanted to offer reasurance..it will be ok if you call your T. It might help you to get through the weekend...
She'll be there for you. I am sure it will be fine for her.
I know it's hard sometimes to call, but she knows you and care about you and will want to know you are hurting so badly. It might help to hear her voice ...hope you can make that phonecall.
Frida
Posted by Poet on June 7, 2007, at 20:59:41
In reply to update and perhaps clarity. *maybe slight trigger, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 17:42:34
Hi Bent,
My T wants me to call her when I'm having a bad time. I always apologize for bothering her and she responds that she needs to know what is going on with me.
I've come close to being in the hospital. In retrospect I probably should have and would like to think that if I have another crisis of that magnitude that I would. Then again that's a stable me talking, not crisis me.
Anyway, I say go ahead and call your T. Keep us posted.
Poet
Posted by DAisym on June 7, 2007, at 22:27:43
In reply to update and perhaps clarity. *maybe slight trigger, posted by bent on June 7, 2007, at 17:42:34
I'm sure your therapist would want to know how much you are suffering this week. These mood swings sound awful. I also think a call to the pdoc might be in order to ask if this is an expected and acceptable response the medication changes.
It is good to have a plan in place. Last week my son's therapist told me that everyone needs a place to fall apart -- and he told me this whole story about a prominent psychologist who needed to be hospitalized because he needed space to fall apart and figure stuff out. So you don't just have to be suicidal in order to need some really close care.
I hope the weekend goes OK for you. Will you be alone? I hope not.
Hugs to you. (go call your therapist!)
Daisy
Posted by bent on June 8, 2007, at 13:47:37
In reply to Re: update and perhaps clarity. *maybe slight trigger, posted by DAisym on June 7, 2007, at 22:27:43
I left her a voicemail, then she called me back and left me a voicemail, then I called her back and she was on the phone with someone, so then she called me back and we finally talked. :-)Doesn’t it always work out that way??
Over all it wasn’t the most reassuring conversation we’ve had but I wasn’t able to explain myself very well. I bunch of “I don’t knows” and I did mention “bad thoughts” but that was really it. I don’t think I accurately got across how bad I was feeling but I did feel better just after leaving the message. She told me to call her voicemail this weekend if I needed her to call me or if I just wanted to say something. She said she’d check it several times a day for me. Hopefully my mood will stabilize a some.
Posted by Poet on June 10, 2007, at 11:27:25
In reply to Re: i called, posted by bent on June 8, 2007, at 13:47:37
Hi Bent,
I know how hard that call was to make, at least I know how hard it is for me. I also know how hard it is to try to tell my T how I'm feeling in other words is it a crisis or am I just wasting her time? Why did I call? Though I usually do feel better having talked to her.
When is your next session? Maybe talking in person would be easier?
Poet
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