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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happykat on November 26, 2006, at 19:26:03
This is the question I've been wanting to ask since I found this board. But I've been too chicken. :(
Has anyone ever had an overwhelming emotional experience with body memory/tissue memory during craniosacral work or any kind of energy or bodywork?
I started with a T who also does craniosacral work, hoping to work through infertility/csa issues. Aside from the fact i couldn't stand her touching me at first (It's nothing weird. I'm fully clothed laying on a table. Safe non-sexual touch) Things were o.k. (Although it is weird-doing talk therapy laying on a table.) Usually she holds my head in her hands so its comforting/soothing. Early on I had 3 or 4 intense sessions where I burst into tears and had memories come up that I didn't want to come up. I had very specific feelings come up whenever my head was turned sideways and flat on the table and ended up having flashback.
Has anyone had this happen?? I've read Bessel van der Kolk's work and Judith Herman too and I know there is a mind-body link with trauma. I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced same.
Thanks.
Posted by Daisym on November 26, 2006, at 23:22:53
In reply to Body/Tissue Memory **csa** (trigger), posted by happykat on November 26, 2006, at 19:26:03
This is actually a pretty common thing, especially if you let yourself really go back and feel the feelings. The hard part for me is feeling the arousal in my body even though my mind is horrified and terrified. It makes me "leave" my body and find a safe place on the ceiling.
Worse - my therapist knows me well enough now to figure out that I'm having a body response. Sometimes it is a weight on my chest or my thighs hurt, but other times it is pain in very private parts. I wiggle my foot, cross my legs, curl up on the couch and almost always clutch a pillow. He wants me to tell him what I'm feeling, which is hard to talk about, but suppressing it makes it worse.
Were you able to talk about what you were feeing with your therapist? I think the touch part would provoke a strong response from me too.
Posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 9:26:24
In reply to Re: Body/Tissue Memory **csa** (trigger) » happykat, posted by Daisym on November 26, 2006, at 23:22:53
Daisy,
Thank you so much for your post. I almost cried when I read it. I am sooooooooo relieved!
> The hard part for me is feeling the arousal in my body even though my mind is horrified and terrified. It makes me "leave" my body and find a safe place on the ceiling.
>
OMG! That is exactly what happened to me. It kept happening when my neck was turned to the side. It was disconcerting to have the arousal mixed with terror/fear. I don't know why but I was so ashamed and afraid to talk about it. Plus sometimes its so hard to put the feelings into words.> Worse - my therapist knows me well enough now to figure out that I'm having a body response. Sometimes it is a weight on my chest or my thighs hurt, but other times it is pain in very private parts. I wiggle my foot, cross my legs, curl up on the couch and almost always clutch a pillow. He wants me to tell him what I'm feeling, which is hard to talk about, but suppressing it makes it worse.
>
I completely understand!!> Were you able to talk about what you were feeing with your therapist? I think the touch part would provoke a strong response from me too.
I have a hard time communicating with my T. The touch aspect is very difficult. I actually quit therapy last month because I was tired of having anxiety attacks on my way to therapy. It started to get to where I dreaded getting on the table. I've ended up going back because I started feeling like I was going to disintegrate.
Thanks for responding. It means so much to know that others are going through the same.Thanks,
happykat :)
Posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 9:26:36
In reply to Body/Tissue Memory **csa** (trigger), posted by happykat on November 26, 2006, at 19:26:03
Hi Happykat,
I've never experienced it during craniosacral work, but have when my T runs energy work on me. I think it's because the person who was doing craniosacral only worked with me twice and I never really felt comfortable enough to let down my vast defenses. My T's been doing energy work on me for four years.
What happens to me during energy work is I feel like a little girl again. Very vulnerable and wanting to cry. My T said next time I experience it I should stop her and we'll try to find out where she's sending energy, so to speak, and why I'm receiving it in a way that makes me feel like a scared kid.
Poet
Posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 9:47:45
In reply to Re: Body/Tissue Memory **csa** (trigger) » happykat, posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 9:26:36
Hi Poet,
What kind of energy work do you have done? I've tried Reiki and liked it alot. My T uses some energy work with the cranio along with guided imagery and psychotherapy. Is your energy T also your regular T?
Do you ever have images/memories/colors pop up along with feelings during energy work?
Thanks,
happykat :)
Posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 11:49:24
In reply to Re: BodyMemory **csa** (trigger) » Poet, posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 9:47:45
Hi Happykat,
My energy T is my regular T, it's one of the reasons I decided to see her because she combines energy work and guided imagery with psychotherapy. A combination that seems to really work fit me.
She does reiki and a Hawaiian energy work called *huna.* I really like the huna because I feel warm when she runs it like the warmth of the sun.
I see colors, usually purple. It's not light from the window or from a lamp, she's turned off the lights and I still see colors.
I have memories pop up, too, they've made me want to cry. I rarely cry in therapy, so that's pretty major to have happen. I am going to tell my T next time she's running energy and I get that feeling of being little. I hate to stop the flow of energy, but I hate feeling like a little kid much more.
Sometimes I think my T is more than a bit out there, but what she does works with me. I do feel a difference after energy work, sometimes I feel lighter. It's not like a weight completely lifted off my shoulders kind of lightness, but that I feel relieved of a little of the burden. Do you feel lighter so to speak, too?
Poet
Posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 13:45:27
In reply to Re: BodyMemory **csa** (trigger), posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 11:49:24
Hi Poet,
The huna work sounds interesting. I just finished a book called "Quantum Touch" that tells how to run energy and has breathing exercises to increase energy flow.
I'm happy to know that your regular T does energy. Have you made a lot of progress with your T? I did traditional therapy years ago and got nowhere. I don't know if its the type of therapy or just my life circumstances but this time around things are going soooo fast.
The feelings of being young and feeling vulnerable are definitely worth exploring. After I finally told my T about my neck she helped me rework through the memory until the feelings were gone.
Do you talk alot during your sessions?
Sometimes I see colors too and often images. I usually do leave feeling lighter unless I've been processing something heavy. Lately I'm just so guarded when I go in there that its hard to relax.
happykat :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 27, 2006, at 18:26:39
In reply to Re: BodyMemory **csa** (trigger) » Poet, posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 13:45:27
> I just finished a book called "Quantum Touch" that tells how to run energy and has breathing exercises to increase energy flow.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 0:49:09
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger) » Daisym, posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 9:26:24
> > The hard part for me is feeling the arousal in my body even though my mind is horrified and terrified. It makes me "leave" my body and find a safe place on the ceiling.
> >
> OMG! That is exactly what happened to me. It kept happening when my neck was turned to the side. It was disconcerting to have the arousal mixed with terror/fear. I don't know why but I was so ashamed and afraid to talk about it. Plus sometimes its so hard to put the feelings into words.**I'm sorry, I don't wish to be insensitive, but, this is hard, but what do you mean by arousal in body? You don't got to answer.
Thanks, sorry,
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on November 29, 2006, at 1:01:09
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger), posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 0:49:09
For me, the arousal is mostly vaginal, though there is a whole body response to the fear. Everything is heightened, even the air seems charged. It is a sexual arousal, although I've read that fear can cause the same kind of arousal energy. And so can anger.
The other thing that happens to me is that when I feel a memory, the room narrows and the edges go fuzzy. I need my therapist's voice to pull me back down, and sometimes even that doesn't work.
Posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 1:09:57
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger) » muffled, posted by Daisym on November 29, 2006, at 1:01:09
Thank you daisy for answering :-(
I felt really bad asking, but I really wanted to know, and i would be WAY too freaked to ask my T.>It is a sexual arousal, although I've read that fear can cause the same kind of arousal energy. And so can anger.
It feels the same with anger and fear???
Fear causes sexual arousal? There?
Damn I hate this, I'm sorry, I hope this is not triggering for you? Just ignore me if so. I'm sorry.
I won't ask any more.
Cuz I trying not to feel too much for awhile.
Hope you doing OK.
Muffled
Posted by happykat on November 29, 2006, at 11:09:44
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger), posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 0:49:09
When my head was turned to the side flat on the table I felt sexually aroused (vaginally) while at the same time feeling a deep sense of fear/terror. During flashback I realized my neck was in the same position during abuse. I also had problems staying in my body whenever these feelings came up. I didn't tell T until after flashback.
I've been doing a lot of research on the subject the last day or so and it is alot more common than I thought. For me I think its hard to digest the fact that while part of me was terrified another part of me was aroused. I feel alot of guilt about that. Like maybe i enjoyed it or wanted it etc.. What does it say about me? I know intellectually that you can't control what happens physiologically and as humans we are wired to feel both pleasure and pain.
The best explanations I've found so far on body memory are from Bessel van der Kolk and Judith Herman. (Both MD's)They've outlined how sensory/kinetic aspects of abuse/trauma work. They talk about how the body stores aspects of overwhelming experiences in a fragmented way.
Posted by Poet on November 29, 2006, at 12:39:06
In reply to Re: BodyMemory **csa** (trigger) » Poet, posted by happykat on November 27, 2006, at 13:45:27
Hi Happykat,
I know what you mean about being guarded so it's hard to relax. When we're talking I sit with my arms and legs tightly crossed and sometimes I hold a pillow under my crossed arms. My T just accepts it, she used to say I don't have to do that, I don't have to protect myself, but know I think she gets that I do have to, so she lets it go.
When she runs energy my back is towards her and I think that helps me let my guard down. I don't sit with my arms and legs crossed and I can feel my body relaxing, letting go of the need to protect myself.
Lately we've talked more than she's done energy. She seems to know when I need talk and when I need energy.
My T says she sees progress, it's me who thinks I'm a failure at therapy. I know, I'm not, but right now it's hard to get my negative thinking brain to remember anything good.
Poet
Posted by happykat on November 29, 2006, at 13:19:07
In reply to Re: double double quotes » happykat, posted by Dr. Bob on November 27, 2006, at 18:26:39
Posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 14:21:15
In reply to Re: **csa** (strong trigger) » muffled, posted by happykat on November 29, 2006, at 11:09:44
I need to know this stuff.
I can't possibly think how else I could have asked anyone and I appreciate you guys helping me out.
Its so very hard.
In so many ways.
Thank you.
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on November 29, 2006, at 23:57:35
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger) » Daisym, posted by muffled on November 29, 2006, at 1:09:57
It's OK to ask Muffy. Really. I bet it would be OK to ask your therapist questions about this too.
I think some of the similarity of feeling aroused and feeling angry or scared is all about energy and what connections your brain has made between all of that. If you were scared but aroused while being abused, the connection might stay wired. I also think there is something about fear that brings on the need to be held and soothed and protected. But holding someone can trigger a body response too. It is all so complicated, isn't it?
Why are you trying to not feel too much? If you can enjoy sex without being scared or angry, or triggered, I would think that is a good thing.
Posted by muffled on November 30, 2006, at 0:08:52
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger) » muffled, posted by Daisym on November 29, 2006, at 23:57:35
> It's OK to ask Muffy. Really. I bet it would be OK to ask your therapist questions about this too.
**Thanks Daisy. I guess I could, but I don't want her getting no ideas...cuz I dunno nothing either.
>
all about energy and what connections your brain has made between all of that.
But holding someone can trigger a body response too. It is all so complicated, isn't it?**TOTALLY complicated...
>
> Why are you trying to not feel too much? If you can enjoy sex without being scared or angry, or triggered, I would
think that is a good thing.**One of my young inside kids (Blossom), is upset alot. I try and help her. My T tries. But this brings on my security system and I shut down Blossom. If I push it and try and listen to her, then there is big TROUBLE. Cuz I get crazy and do stupid and risky behavior. I just goto make it stop. This kid has such intense weird bad emotions. I don't really wan to feel them.
Mostly all I know is she feels very gross. And she hates her skin. Its crawly. She feels dirty and bad and disgusting.
And thats all I know really. All I want to know.
I had a good childhood so fars I know. I think I was proly oversensitive.
I dissociate for sex. Or not do it at all :-( , as I am less able to dissociate these days.
Thank you daisy.
Muffled
Posted by SatinDoll on November 30, 2006, at 12:44:45
In reply to Re: Body Memory **csa** (trigger) » Daisym, posted by muffled on November 30, 2006, at 0:08:52
I have been reading what everyone is writing and this interests me a great deal. I would like to learn more about energy work.
What I am wondering is it kinda like doing yoga? Because you concentrate on the different charakas and you do a lot of deep breathing, chanting, etc. You can actually feel the energy radiate through your body. I know the yoga instructor who does that Rataki massage thing that I think Poet talked about, but anyways she talks about letting the energy flow through the "stuck" parts. Is this anything simular?
Oh yeah, sometimes after yoga I feel like I am going to cry, like it hit a sensistive part emotionally
Posted by happykat on November 30, 2006, at 16:58:13
In reply to energy work and yoga?, posted by SatinDoll on November 30, 2006, at 12:44:45
Hi SatinDoll,
> What I am wondering is it kinda like doing yoga?
I think there is alot of crossover between yoga, energy work and acupuncture. They all focus on the life force be it prana or chi. My understanding is that energy work is used to help the body heal itself as well as to balance
the chakras and restore the flow of energy which helps create a sense of well being.I don't really know how to explain an actual energy session only to say that you don't have to really do anything. The energy worker runs his/her hands over your body, focusing on different areas/chakras. So, to make a long story short, yeah I guess it is like yoga.
I recently read a great book that ties all of this together with abuse and trauma called:
It breaks down the chakra system using Jungian psychology, somatic therapy, and childhood developmental therapy. It shows how developmental patterns, traumas and abuses affect each chakra. Its quite fascinating.
I've also cried with yoga and acupuncture too.
Have you been doing yoga for awhile?
happykat
Posted by happykat on November 30, 2006, at 18:25:15
In reply to Re: BodyMemory **csa** (trigger) » happykat, posted by Poet on November 29, 2006, at 12:39:06
Hey Poet,
>>My T says she sees progress, it's me who thinks I'm a failure at therapy.
I need constant reassurance about my progress from my T. I think I'm running her batty. She just smiles and says, "there are no rules","it takes as long as it takes." Unfortunately i think I'm at the beginning of this process.
>>I know, I'm not, but right now it's hard to get my negative thinking brain to remember anything good.
i hear ya! sending you Reiki energy and happy thoughts!
happykat : )
Posted by Poet on December 2, 2006, at 13:19:11
In reply to Re: Hey Poet » Poet, posted by happykat on November 30, 2006, at 18:25:15
Hi Happykat,
Thanks for the energy, I can really use it. I think I run my T batty, too, but she's seeing me for free right now, so she must be able to handle it.
Poet
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