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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
My T and I have been discussing "playing" in therapy. I don't think I ever really learned how to play when I was young and I think I test it out with him, ocassionally. Anyway, I don't remember how it came up, but two sessions ago, I told my T I wanted to play 20 Questions with him. He laughed a little nervously, but waited for my first question. That's when I asked him if he's ever had a dream about me. I immediately told him I knew he couldn't answer that and moved on to something else. No more questions.
So, this last session, he said he was thinking he hadn't "played the game by the rules". I told him I thought it was a bit unfair of me, kind of like asking someone who can't swim to play Marco Polo. But he mentioned it again and I took it as him saying we should try again. Maybe that wasn't what he was getting at. Maybe he didn't think I'd ask the same question, but I did. And I waited for an answer this time. All he came up with was that he didn't think he could answer that and he said he liked my analogy of Marco Polo. And he said he felt that was moving into a more interpersonal relationship and we shouldn't be looking at his psyche.
Again, I just moved on.
Then, I got my the car after the session and on the drive home, I got more and more upset. So, I called and left a message that I thought he pulled me back in only to slap me in the face with what I already knew and, might I add, rather effectively protected myself from the last time. It stung. It hurt. I also told him I thought it wasn't fair that my psyche has been analyzed all over the place and, while obviously that's what we're there for, it hurt that I was only asking for some insight into the probably tiny part of his psyche that has to do with me. Only he has the advantage of knowing what's going on in both of our minds in relation to me.
I know I was being irrational about the psyche part, but did he *have* to do that to me?
:-(
Posted by scentedgarden on June 10, 2006, at 5:10:15
In reply to Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
Hey all done -
i just want to say to you that i like the post you have written here...I THINK IT'S VERY POIGNANT, I'S AN EXCELLENT POINT!!!
iWOULD LOVE TO DISCUSS IT FURTHER WITH YOU ON A CHAT LINE ROOM ON HERE SOMETIME....?
I experience the exact same stuff at times with my T....it isn't fair you're right, and I think te do like to play with us at times....I can't see how they can avoid the temptation, evn just to see if they can get away with it without us noticing, as no doubt many clients don't!! So It's rotten of them but they do it anyway... You are right to pull your T up about by by foning and saying what you had to say on the message you .... I think we can play at that game too if we wanted too...But I won't go there with that right now or ever...not on here... At the end of the dy they are oing a job, and they donthave all the answers and we have to accep hey will never be a part of our real life, ad they wont come in and sy yes dreamt of yu last night, smly because if a T dd say tha, it would ususally mean they were a lousy T. unless under some special circumstnces wher it benifiteed the client to know their T's dreams about them...I have to sa there is NOTHING WRONG WTH YOU ASKING, AND YU SHOLD FEEL FREE T ASK ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, JUST AS LONG AS YOU ARE PREPARED TO BE KNOCKED BACK EACH TIME IT'S A PERSONAL Q... ask away .... and don't get oo upset about it... it's not like it will really affect yur life in a huge way... I know how maddening it can be too alotof the time to leave the sesssion, go sit in my car and stew over what she has said or not ssaid!!! so all i can say is you're not alone... and i wanted you to know i liked what you wrote here and i'm glad yu did...don't know if you have lied wha i have written, but i ope it helps you t feel understood a little...by a fellow client...in your same shoes!!!
Posted by Dinah on June 10, 2006, at 8:30:56
In reply to Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
I think if he intended it as an apology, or as a regretful assessment of the rules of therapy, that he could have phrased it better. And that phrasing it as open-endedly as he did did lead you on a bit, even if he didn't mean to.
But I also think they're human and that they don't always phrase things as well as they could. And that it was kind of him to remember it from the previous session and to feel regret over it.
So a great score for intentions and kindness, but only a fair one for execution?
Posted by Daisym on June 10, 2006, at 15:57:31
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning » All Done, posted by Dinah on June 10, 2006, at 8:30:56
The whole thing sounds so painful. I must admit, this is the spot where I have trouble with my own therapy. Those land mines that they know about and we don't, but they encourage us to walk in the mine field anyway. I believe it is the most "unfair" part of the psychoanalytical style of therapy.
I question whether what we learn about ourselves during these tough and touchy interactions is worth the cost. My particular incident was over hugs - a policy that could be easily laid out early on without it becoming painful later. Questioning them is a HUGE minefield.
I hope you were able to talk it through. I know it took me more than one session of being upset with him.
(((AllDone)))
Posted by ElaineM on June 10, 2006, at 20:30:19
In reply to Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
It does sound like he kind of invited you to open the whole "game" thing again. It can be so frustrating trying to figure out what a T means. Maybe he brought it up again to show he would like to help you explore playing, but with more restrictive questions. Do you think he was hoping you'd ask something different, or more generic? Would he answer other stuff? Or would he "play" by asking YOU 20 questions? Does he have suggestions himself on other ways you could explore the topic of playing together?
If anything I say is inappropriate then I'm sorry. I don't really know what's always okay, or sometimes okay, or never, with T's. My T answers any question I ask about anything, and when I don't ask he always tells me about what he's thinking and feeling about life in general, his own life, or me. It seems normal to me. The more I read here though the more I'm finding out how strange my T's behaviour is. It's good to find things out I guess, but reading about others T's and sessions usually ends up scaring me.
Have you ever had a therapist who answered personal questions?
I'm interested in how your T approaches what happened. Let us know how it goes. Good luck!
Elaine
Posted by Poet on June 11, 2006, at 14:13:11
In reply to Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
Hi Laurie,
How did it go?
It sure sounds to me that your T was trying to bait you into playing the game and then he chickened out (again!) Rotten thing to do.
He could have just said, I'm still not answering that one, next question please.
My T does share personal things with me and I think she'd honestly answer me if I asked her if she's ever had a dream about me. Or more likely with me in it, not about me, so to speak. I've told her enough times when I've had a dream with her in it.
Poet
Posted by Poet on June 11, 2006, at 14:20:08
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by ElaineM on June 10, 2006, at 20:30:19
Hi Elaine,
My T tells me what she's thinking and feeling about life- hers, mine and in general, too. We get into political discussions- we share the same viewpoint.
So your T isn't the only one.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 10:15:08
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning » ElaineM, posted by Poet on June 11, 2006, at 14:20:08
I am thinking of you today. ((((All done)))))
Posted by All Done on June 12, 2006, at 14:03:05
In reply to Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 10, 2006, at 1:54:30
Thanks for all your posts, everyone. I wish I had time to reply to everyone individually, but I can't at the moment.
The one thing I want to make clear is that I didn't feel like my T did anything on purpose or knowingly to hurt me. And after talking to him, that was confirmed. He told me he was trying to find out how I felt about him not really "participating". I said, "you could have used your 'right' as a therapist to just ask me, 'how did that make you feel?' instead. Then again, I probably would have yelled at you for using that question because I hate it." If he felt he really had to know how I felt about it, he was in a no-win situation, I guess.
I also told him I was hoping he'd have a better answer than "I can't answer that". I didn't even necessarily need him to answer yes or no, I just wanted something more from him than he gave me. Some thoughtful answer about what I do (or don't) mean to him, I guess.
When he again explained that his intention wasn't to get me to play the game again, apparently, that wasn't enough for me, because a little later, he indicated that he wasn't sure what to say about it (him, at a loss for words?? Get out! ;) )and I said, "how about 'I'm sorry'?" He followed that with a sincere apology, but I hate having to "ask" for apologies, you know?
Pretty much, everything he said for a while after that was making me mad and I told him that. It didn't even really matter what he was saying.
Things felt somewhat back on track after I told him about my idea for the Therafriend. And after I gave him the analogy of the two beautiful presents and only being able to open one.
I guess I was still wanting answers from him, though. I asked questions about his supervision and if he ever talked about me. He told me he did...a lot. He said I am "*very* important" to him and he's learned from me. I don't really quite know why it turned into this, but it did. And, it made me feel better.
Something tells me that he wouldn't mind if I could stay with being mad for a while, though. I just can't seem to do it, yet. We talked a little about how being mad is scary to me, but it didn't go very far.
Aaaarrrrgh! I don't know if I explained anything to you guys. I feel like I given you a poor reconstruction of my session and it's all over the place. I guess that's kind of how it felt. That said, he was very sincere with me and I have no doubt he didn't mean to hurt me. Sometimes it just stinks to remember he has that ability - more even than a lot of people in my life.
Thanks, again, for your posts and for asking how it went. You are all so great!
Laurie
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:04:22
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 12, 2006, at 14:03:05
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 16:13:05
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 12, 2006, at 14:03:05
Sounds like it went well.
I'm happy for you. :)
Posted by annierose on June 12, 2006, at 18:20:39
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by All Done on June 12, 2006, at 14:03:05
I think you and your T are doing just what you need to explore. You don't need to explain a thing. I do think the added session every other week does help add to the intimacy and intensity of the relationship (usually for the better).
Is he young? You mentioned supervision, so I imagine he is on the younger side. It was a brave question to ask, and I'm glad you let him answer. It's nice when they let us know they think about us and learn from us. I just asked my T that question a few weeks ago, I asked, "Have you ever learned anything about yourself from working with me?" She took a very long pause, then a "Hmmmmm" then "Could you explain further?" [classic stalling for time] and came up with a semi-decent reply, not warm or fuzzy, more professional (darn it).
Your T sounds warm and fuzzy, like someone you would want to curl up on the couch with and watch a movie and share popcorn.
Posted by All Done on June 15, 2006, at 11:23:26
In reply to Wow. Well done! (nm) » All Done, posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:04:22
But it's *All* Done, not *well* done!
;-) ;-)
Sorry...terrible joke.
Posted by All Done on June 15, 2006, at 11:26:03
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning » All Done, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 16:13:05
It did go pretty well. I just hate that so much of this stuff feels so repetitive for me. Like never-ending topics.
Oh well, job security for him and T security for me.
Posted by All Done on June 15, 2006, at 11:48:08
In reply to Re: Nervous about seeing my T tomorrow morning, posted by annierose on June 12, 2006, at 18:20:39
> I think you and your T are doing just what you need to explore. You don't need to explain a thing. I do think the added session every other week does help add to the intimacy and intensity of the relationship (usually for the better).
>
> Is he young? You mentioned supervision, so I imagine he is on the younger side. It was a brave question to ask, and I'm glad you let him answer. It's nice when they let us know they think about us and learn from us. I just asked my T that question a few weeks ago, I asked, "Have you ever learned anything about yourself from working with me?" She took a very long pause, then a "Hmmmmm" then "Could you explain further?" [classic stalling for time] and came up with a semi-decent reply, not warm or fuzzy, more professional (darn it).
>
> Your T sounds warm and fuzzy, like someone you would want to curl up on the couch with and watch a movie and share popcorn.My T is a year older than me. He'll be 35 soon. I don't know that age made any difference for me when I talked to him about supervision, though. I guess I just assumed he had supervision and maybe always will. I know there are some therapists that don't, but with so much possibility of "new" things coming up in therapy with so many different clients, I think maybe they should always have some sort of supervision no matter how experienced they are.
My T is pretty warm and fuzzy. I really didn't think that at all at first, he doesn't look like the warm and fuzzy type, but he's definitely turned out to be that way. He's provided a very nice environment for me to feel comfortable talking to him about almost anything. And I've actually mentioned to him that I fantasize about sitting next to him curled up on the couch and reading a good book together.
I wish they could all be warm and fuzzy all the time.
This is the end of the thread.
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