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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 9:14:13
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by happyflower on February 2, 2006, at 9:08:07
has she not heard of hipaa?
isN'T that the law that she can't just take and read my file unless is sign consent forms for her to be able to??
or at least verbally consent. and i SPECIFICALLY SAID TO OLD T, NO.
did she just pull it anyway? can she just do this?i KNEW going to see a female would bring out the anger in me.
I DON'T WANT HER TO KNOW ANYTHING UNLESS "I", "I" YOU HEAR ME "I" CHOOSE TO TELL HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DANG I'M MAD!!!!!!!
b2c.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 9:18:33
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by happyflower on February 2, 2006, at 9:08:07
I think you should phone her asap and tell her just what you wrote here. In canada I sign for any release of documents to anybody. I even signed to give my T permission to call my sister. Same with T talking to my GP I signed for that too.
Sounds weird to me.
Can you get ahold of old T and ask whats going on?
Sucks all right.
Mebbe you could just grab the file and bolt out the door?
Mebbe thats wrong though? But its proly what I would do.
Sorry b2c
Muffled
Posted by pegasus on February 2, 2006, at 9:25:57
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
B2C, that stinks! I think you need to tell her how angry you are. If I were in your place, I'd probably call the old T, and chew him out too.
I don't know the details of HPPA, but I think they aren't legally allowed to share info about you without your permission. Maybe it's different if they're part of the same practice, or something, but I don't think so. I suppose that may mean that you could sue them. Or at least report them to their licensing agency.
I thought the only exceptions to the confidentiality rule was if they thought you were a danger to yourself or others. In that case they're obligated to share info to protect whoever might be in danger. But I'm assuming that doesn't apply here?
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I don't blame you for being angry. I would be livid.
peg
Posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 9:26:13
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 9:18:33
b2 i agree w/muffled. phone her asap and tell her you haven't signed a consent for her to read your file and your ex t told u he had "closed" it and put it in storage. mention hippa. r u going to back and see her? do u think u can trust her?
fw
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 9:35:31
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 9:18:33
> I think you should phone her asap and tell her just what you wrote here.
i just did that, but i always sound so dorky on a machine. and now i'm paranoid that she's gonna read it just cuz i don't want her too. ....see...d@mn it, THIS is why i don't go to female T's!
>In canada I sign for any release of documents to anybody. I even signed to give my T permission to call my sister. Same with T talking to my GP I signed for that too.
that's what i thought too, i had to sign conset for my T to even talk to my pdoc.
> Mebbe you could just grab the file and bolt out the door?DON'T think i haven't thought of this! last night as i was on the treadmill i imagined i did this and the cops came to my home door that night...but it was too late cuz i already read it and burned it in our fireplace!
HA!thanks for the cares muffled.
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 9:41:09
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by pegasus on February 2, 2006, at 9:25:57
> B2C, that stinks! I think you need to tell her how angry you are. If I were in your place, I'd probably call the old T, and chew him out too.
the only thing i hate is she's analyzing me. the old t we'd just sit and talk, he was real, not putting on any front, at least most of the time. if i tell her i'm angry, she's more likely to want to do what i don't want her to do.
see i just don't trust her...not at all. especially now.
> I don't know the details of HPPA, but I think they aren't legally allowed to share info about you without your permission. Maybe it's different if they're part of the same practice, or something, but I don't think so. I suppose that may mean that you could sue them. Or at least report them to their licensing agency.i thought if she uses that file against me i will threaten to report to hipaa about violation AND i will have a lawyer supeona (spelling?) the file.
> I thought the only exceptions to the confidentiality rule was if they thought you were a danger to yourself or others. In that case they're obligated to share info to protect whoever might be in danger. But I'm assuming that doesn't apply here?your right it doesn't apply here.
she keeps telling me stuff that she thinks i want to hear.
like about how terrible the hospital is and the "crisis center" is... i told last T about my experiences...but i told her i had good experiences at the hospital...then she tried to cover and carry on conversation. she's trying to hard to tell me what she thinks i want to hear so that i'll trust her.thanks for caring peguses.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 9:45:59
In reply to Re: She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 9:26:13
i want to mention the hipaa thing but i'm afraid if i do that will want her to read it asap before she has to put it back. so i called and left a message asking her for her word (whatever that means) not to read it until we have a chance to talk about it next wed. that i have specific reasons for her not reading it.
when i see her in person i'll mention about old T closing it and if i have too, mention hipaa.
>>b2 i agree w/muffled. phone her asap and tell her you haven't signed a consent for her to read your file and your ex t told u he had "closed" it and put it in storage. mention hippa.>>r u going to back and see her?
at least once more. but i'm going off my meds in march so my hubby and i can try for a baby so i need some type of support during that month. of course i think my pdoc may do that too.>>do u think u can trust her?
simple..."NO".
b2c.> fw
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
she just called me back...saying that she has everyright to that file because i'm seeing her/her client, but that she hasn't read it yet and she gave me her word that she wouldn't until next wed when we can talk about it.
she was Very adamit about that she has right to that file!yes she is in the same practice as last T but does that give her rights like that?? to just take it?
i HATE THIS!!.
i feel like a little kid again, like she has power over me!
i HATE IT!!!! SHE HAS NOOOOOOO RIGHT TO MY BACKGROUND!!!!!!!!still so angry. sorry for yelling folks.
b2c.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 10:09:47
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
Can you tell her you fire her and there fore you are not her client therefore she has no right to your file?
Or do you want to give her a chance?
Can you grab a friend and go into the office?
Muffled
Posted by milly on February 2, 2006, at 10:13:45
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
That really sucks, shouldn't she start with knowing nothing/very little and let you fill in what you want her to have WHEN you want her to have it?
She sounds very dogmatic and powercrazed, she shouldn't treat you like a child. I'd keep YELLING if I was you
milly
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2006, at 10:23:06
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
If you have the resources I'd call an attorney and find out if she's right. I actually don't think she is if you're in the US. My therapist sent me for auxiliary services with other members of his clinic and they both always made me sign.
I'd be furious too, with both therapists.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:36:44
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 10:09:47
other than stealing the file, that was my other thought. but if i did that i know she'd read it before she sealed it.
> Can you tell her you fire her and there fore you are not her client therefore she has no right to your file?
> Or do you want to give her a chance?
> Can you grab a friend and go into the office?
> Muffled
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:37:55
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by milly on February 2, 2006, at 10:13:45
> That really sucks, shouldn't she start with knowing nothing/very little and let you fill in what you want her to have WHEN you want her to have it?
> She sounds very dogmatic and powercrazed, she shouldn't treat you like a child. I'd keep YELLING if I was youthat's exactly what i wanted to start from scratch with her...and i DO feel like she's treating me like a child...thanks for letting me yell.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:43:58
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG???? » B2chica, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2006, at 10:23:06
i was thinking of doing this just to get a copy, since she said right away that i can't look at them...i can, i know i've heard that before...that we can look, the therapist can suggest that i not but if all else fails i could get a lawyer to supeona the records then i'd have a copy.
-I have a friend that used to work in healthcare billing, maybe she would know who i can call.and my last T specifically told me that he closed my old file so it could get sent away to storage and opened a new one for me...i'm assuming that way she could only access that one.
unfortunatly the whole time i was seeing him there was constant confusion between the office staff and him regarding appointments and such...so the staff could just not have been on the ball and not done it.
or he was pacifying me by saying that...but i really don't think he was.T2 says that she may talk with him this next week and hopefully he clears it up with her!
thanks
b2c.> If you have the resources I'd call an attorney and find out if she's right. I actually don't think she is if you're in the US. My therapist sent me for auxiliary services with other members of his clinic and they both always made me sign.
>
> I'd be furious too, with both therapists.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:45:45
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
in your practice...what's the low down? how does your filing system work?
does she have rights like she says. she's saying that now that file is hers.
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
ok, i found this online and it reassured me of my rights - especially the second paragraph... i need to sign a letter of release for her to see them!
Right to inspect and copy
-you have the right to inspect or obtain a coyp (or both) of PHI and psychotherapy notes in "clinicians" mental health and billing records used to make decisions about you for as long as the PHI is maintained in the record. "Clinicians" may deny your access to PHI under certain circumstances, but in some cases you may have this decision reviewed. On your request, clincians will discuss with you the details of the amendment process
Uses and disclosures requiring authorization-a clinician will also need to obtain an authorization BEFORE RELEASING YOUR PSYCHOTHERAPY NOTES. "phychotherapy notes" are notes the clinician has made about converstaions during a private group, joint, or family counseling session, which the clinician has kept separate from the rest of your medical record. These notes are given a greater degree of protection than PHI.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
In reply to i found this...., posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
I still think it would be good if you actually went to the office with a friend as backup (witness) and see that the file is sealed with your own eyes. (how do they seal it?)
And to make it very clear to T2 that you not gonna take this crap sitting down. Your no fool, your responsible person. I would also write a letter (keep a copy for yourself) to the practice group about what happened.
This will help other more meek people not to get pushed around another time.
Thats my thots anyhow fwiw.
And if they won't do that, STEAL IT, and run like hell. Just to make a point. You can give it back after. Just say you had a bit of a 'moment', what with the stress of all this b*llshit.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:39:01
In reply to Re: i found this.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
Well.............. mebbe you better not steal it. I'm thinking they OWN it which is a whole nuther can of worms isn't it?
But you might end up having to goto court and having a record. If you already got one mebbe its not so bad. But if you gonna have kids and wanto do volunteer stuff they do criminal record checks...................
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by happyflower on February 2, 2006, at 13:12:54
In reply to Re:above. » muffled, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:39:01
I would fire her on the spot, since it doesn't seem like you will ever be able to trust her, I wouldn't. Then I would try to find somebody else to see that is not in the same office. ((((((B2))))
Posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 13:30:29
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
call her back and tell her she's fired, and to keep her hands off your file, or you'll sue her.
Since you have a right to it, put in the paperwork to get ahold of it, and find yourself a t who'll respect your wishes.fw
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2006, at 13:34:38
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
I, too, would be absolutely LIVID. And that sounds as though she may have some pretty heavy problems of her own, too, if she had your file on her desk even knowing that you'd specifically asked that this be a fresh start. That sounds like baiting.
Also, that you feel as hough she's trying to say what you want to hear, rather than being genuine -- no wonder you don't trust her. (I had that: An intern asked me what she had to do to make me trust her? Uh, if I have to tell you how to do it, then I *can't* trust you...)
As for HIPAA, I think if they're in the same practice, it might be different -- and I think it's also different if either is an intern. (Dunno your situation.) I would say, though, that HIPAA really doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that they would not respect your wishes in this matter. Now, I can understand why she wanted your file, and just from reading your posts I would bet that she's already read that file, and had read a good bit of it before your first session, but you had specifically requested that you be seen without her having your file.
And don't pay much attention to me -- I've had some bad experiences, and so I am very suspicious about therapists.
The bottom line that I see, though -- and I don't say that it is valid at all -- is that you've gotten off to a very, very bad start, and you're gonna have such an uphill battle to get anywhere towards trusting her, that I would probably request another transfer. Ask for another therapist in the same practice, or just go elsewhere. Within the same practice, they may not need a signed release. That's something you can check out. But outside that practice, there's no question.
If you have any trouble getting a transfer within the practice, or there are problems with the center itself and you have to stay with them anyway, babblemail me and I'll tell you more about my story with that.
Best luck, and I'm both sorry that this happened to you and furious on your behalf.
Posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:50:04
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG???? » B2chica, posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 13:30:29
Everyone has sort of aleady said this, but I just wanted to agree..
I am a psych grad student who has done a lot of work in mental health settings, where we are trained in HIPAA, ethics, etc.. and what everyone has said is correct. Your new T is absolutely WRONG.. she does not have a right to anything just by virtue of being your therapist. Can you imagine if that were the case? Shed be able to call your family, spouse, children, etc and get any information she wanted.. no way.
If I were you, I'd drop this T immediately. She is obviously either manipulative or clueless when it comes to ethics guidelines. If it were me, I'd have a hard time ever trusting her in the future.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this!
Posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:57:24
In reply to Re: i found this.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
When I worked in a local counseling agency, "sealed" wasnt really a literal thing. It could be different at other places, but in my experience, it just means that theyre closed and put into storage, often in the same building somewhere. It's nothing youd be able to see by looking at it. I guess it's sort of a trust game in a way.. scary.
Also, you can definitely request to see your files.. but they wont just hand them over to you. Usually someone has to go through it first. You dont get to see everything - generally no actually therapy notes (what the therapist uses to remind themselves, etc), just the dry, clinical stuff. Personally, I'd rather see the detailed notes.. but oh well. So be careful about just stealing it.. even though you do have access to your file, you might get yourself in trouble this way.
Posted by LadyBug on February 2, 2006, at 14:54:07
In reply to i found this...., posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
I think your right on with this information. I had to sign a release form for My T. who was working with me at a time when my spouse was working with a different T. so that they could exchange information between the two of them.
I would go to her office right away and ask for my file and tell her you'll bring it back when you decide to and that might be never!!!!! I'd be fumming mad!!!
LadyBug
Posted by gardenergirl on February 2, 2006, at 15:49:55
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:50:04
Sorry I haven't been around.
Regarding whether she has the right to the file....it's sticky because she's in the same agency. If they are an agency or group practice, you may not "need" to sign a consent for release of information for your chart to go to her. Where I worked last, when someone was transferred, the chart transferred.
However, you specifically told your old T, who has now left the agency, that you did not want her to get it. I don't know if that "counts" or not. I wish I had a clear answer for you. I think ethically, she should have abided by your request, even if she has a legal right to the chart.
Regarding your right to the chart....yes, HIPAA gives you the right to see it, but clinicians can decide not to share certain info if they believe it could harm you to know it. State laws vary, though. In my state, the client has the right to see the entire record, regardless of whether the clinician thinks it might be harmful to the client. Any state law that gives the client more protection and rights than HIPAA supercedes HIPAA.
I know this is clear as mud.
I'm glad she called you and agreed not to read it before you meet. Of course you have to trust her on that. And like others said, if you fire her, it sort of solves that problem, although I suppose she may still read it and just not tell you.
Okay, just tried one site...and found this on a fact sheet:
You Have the Right to:
Ask that your information not be shared
You can ask your provider or health insurer not to share your health information
with certain people, groups, or companies. For example, if you go to a clinic,
you could ask the doctor not to share your medical record with other doctors or
nurses in the clinic. However, they do not have to agree to do what you ask.Frankly, I don't know what that means that you have the right to ask but they can say no.
Here's where it says you can get more info:
For more information
This is a brief summary of your
rights and protections under the
federal health information privacy
law. You can ask your provider or
health insurer questions about how
your health information is used or
shared and about your rights. You
also can learn more, including how
to file a complaint with the U.S.
Government, at the website at
www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/
or by calling 1-866-627-7748;
the phone call is free.Sorry I can't be of more help.
gg
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