![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
This has turned into a very bad week. Today I'm mostly lying on the sofa, with a quilt over my head. I just want this to stop.
Anyway, I'm still going over that whole "trauma" thing. Maybe part of the reason I object so strongly is that I hate to see myself as damaged, as pathetic, as incapable. Believe it or not, my image of myself is as someone who is Smart, Capable, Strong, Able, etc. Even during really bad spells like this one, that's still there for me: I still feel as though I *could* do just about anything. Of course, there's a heck of a lot of self-criticism because I don't get things done, since after all I could, but with the whole trauma thing, it turns that on its head. I start to feel as though that image of myself is delusional, that I'm actually pathetic and ineffectual, and that there's no reason to keep trying.
Maybe that's part of what's going on? I don't know. Right now, I doubt my own insight into myself, so who can say how accurate that is?
And then there's the just plain sick of it all part -- I start remembering all the ways that I've failed, all the bad things that have happened that I could have prevented, all the things I couldn't even begin to know how to handle. And then I feel as though there's no hope for me at all. A lot of that stuff goes back to my academic failure, which is a really hot button for me. I really am smart, and I know that I have Failed To Live Up To My Full Potential. I haven't ever managed to do anything with my intelligence, except be totally [anglo-saxon based verb deleted] up by life. And I think sometimes that if I hadn't been smart, none of this would have affected me so much.
And I feel like such a Pathetic Loser -- technical terminology there -- for not being Grown Up. I don't know entirely where that part is coming from, although there's some resonance from The Therapist From The Black Lagoon and The Agency From Hell there -- "you need to work harder, it's because you're not willing to work that you're feeling so bad..." You know, wanting someone to do it for me. That's a big bad one, too. I really do want to be able to go and put my head in someone's lap and be petted or held. I want someone to take care of me. I want, on those days that I can't even get out of bed, to have someone else cook breakfast, and maybe just sit with me. Or maybe to have someone bring me breakfast in bed. I want someone to help me with the things I find too hard, for whatever reason. And there's no one there, and I feel overwhelmed by it all.
Thus, the quilt and the sofa.
Sorry to keep on the same subjects, but this is a tough time and I hope someone out there can lend me a little insight into all this. It's so confused, and I can't figure any of it out -- and therapy isn't every day -- so I'm hoping someone here can offer some help with it all.
Thanks.
Posted by jammerlich on January 12, 2006, at 17:30:17
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
>>> I really do want to be able to go and put my head in someone's lap and be petted or held. I want someone to take care of me. I want, on those days that I can't even get out of bed, to have someone else cook breakfast, and maybe just sit with me. Or maybe to have someone bring me breakfast in bed. I want someone to help me with the things I find too hard, for whatever reason. And there's no one there, and I feel overwhelmed by it all.
<<<< I'm wondering if it's really so bad to want these things? Surely it isn't. I totally identify with the desire to be held and petted and I think the conflict in it all, for me, is how can I think myself smart and capable, yet still be vulnerable and needy (I have to keep telling myself those aren't dirty words)sometimes. And even though I can't really feel it on an emotional level, about myself, at least, I do believe that a person can be both.I'm sorry I don't have any insights. I only have questions, just like you do. But I'll sit with you and quietly hold your hand if you want. Or I can chatter endlessly to help keep your brain numbed out. You won't have any responsibilities. And if you like pets, I have the cutest cocker spaniel who loves nothing more than sleeping under the covers - a really great thing if your feet are cold.
Posted by Berberis on January 12, 2006, at 18:05:35
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
Racer...I feel this overwhelming desire to rush to your side, make you some hot chocolate, sit and listen, take care of you, and try to make things all better. Do you have a close friend who can do just that?
I'm very familiar with that feeling of wanting to be taken care of. It's hard to be a grown-up (and you'd think I'd have it nailed since I'm 51).
There's no doubt in my mind that being smarter than your average Joe can be a liability where our mental health is concerned.
I wish you felt better. ((((Racer))))
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2006, at 19:57:49
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
No insight at all, I'm afraid.
But I know that overwhelmed and alone feeling only too well.
You are not a Pathetic Loser. But maybe seeing yourself as all Capable Strong and Able is setting you up to feel disappointed in yourself.
Maybe that's where the shades of grey come in. Or mixing the black and white a bit. Few people are always Strong and Capable and Able. And luckily most people have a reasonable amount of Strong and Capable and Able.
So maybe sometimes you're strong, capable, and able. And sometimes you want someont to be strong, capable, and able for you. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
But then again, I'm the one who never ever wants to be a grownup, so take what I say for what it's worth. :)
Posted by JenStar on January 12, 2006, at 21:12:20
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
hi Racer,
I'm sorry things are so sucky right now. I love getting taken care of, too. It IS really nice. It's OK to want that! don't beat yourself up for wanting that sometimes. I think we all want that.And don't beat yourself up for not living up to some arbitrary potential. You ARE a smart person!
I hope things get better.
JenStar
Posted by muffled on January 12, 2006, at 21:31:02
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
Racer, can I come under quilt with you? We can both hide.
Muffled.
Posted by Phillipa on January 12, 2006, at 22:09:21
In reply to Lets both of us hide, posted by muffled on January 12, 2006, at 21:31:02
Racer you are brillient! Buy I do emphathize. Fondly Phillipa
Posted by fairywings on January 12, 2006, at 22:48:34
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
Stay under the quilt if you need to, it sounds nice and safe and warm, but while you're there maybe you can sort some things out. I know from reading your posts you're none of those bad adjective, but I do know how it feels to feel that way. Sending you hugs, and hoping things start to feel better soon.
fw
Posted by ClearSkies on January 13, 2006, at 5:01:41
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
Being labelled a survivor is kind of like being given a dx of MD or GAD - something that might help in being given the correct medication or type of therapy, but won't make you feel any better.
So - I would say, "you know, I realize that I'm a survivor. That really bad things have happened to me in the past. What I am interested in doing is going forward with my life. What can I do now that can help me feel better about myself, help me get some self esteem back?"
I think it has to do with not being so judgemental about ourselves. And that includes not labelling ourselves Survivors, or Victims, or whatever. How about that we are g*d's perfect child? That we are the best we can be at the moment, which is pretty darn good?
Never mind that I know from personal experience that you are the smartest person I have ever met. That you have an encyclopaedic knowledge of just about anything I can bring up in conversation; and that you aren't the least bit weird or condescending about it, but make your depth of knowledge something that you love to share with others and that brings us all joy and happiness.
Oh, and that you are beautiful. Oh, and that you have a Wicked sense of humour.Understanding our past is critical to being able to go forward. But labelling ourselves in this process is NOT critical in going forward. We just need to be able to understand and tell our story. Ask ourselves questions about it. Question our feelings about our past, perhaps challenge those feelings. And in doing so, we allow ourselves to go forward with our lives.
That's what I think, anyhow.
from your friend,
ClearSkies
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:07:44
In reply to Re: More of the same. » Racer, posted by fairywings on January 12, 2006, at 22:48:34
its getting stinky under this quilt. Lets come out and look at the pretty things we can find. Lets pick up a picture or something we like and admire it and think good thots.
Muffly
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:09:01
In reply to Racer,you f*rted......., posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:07:44
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:12:38
In reply to Asterisk on f*rted? Whats wrong with f*rt??? (nm), posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:09:01
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:14:27
In reply to f*rt,fartish, superfart, f*rting, fartfart. Hmmmmm (nm), posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:12:38
I think she's trying to make you happy is all. I want you to feel better too.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2006, at 11:21:15
In reply to f*rt,fartish, superfart, f*rting, fartfart. Hmmmmm (nm), posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:12:38
By making new words out of words that are auto-asterisked, Dr. Bob may think you are deliberately trying to bypass the autasterisking.
Just a heads up.
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:33:52
In reply to Autoasterisking » muffled, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2006, at 11:21:15
> By making new words out of words that are auto-asterisked, Dr. Bob may think you are deliberately trying to bypass the autasterisking.
>
> Just a heads up.
***Thanks Dinah.
***That'd be the kid. But I always know what she's doing. I let her.
But anyways, I wasn't hurting or offending anyone, its just f*rt. Not a bad word.
Its even in my dictionary.
"an expulsion of intestinal gas" ROFL!!!
The auto asterisk is not perfect, it messes with words that are not even bad, so I didn't think it was a prob, just thot it funny. I NEED to laugh. If I don't laugh then everything will build up and it'll get ugly.
If Bob wants to teach me some petty lesson somehow over this, then I guess thats his perogative.
Been a sh*tty week. Just pile it on.
Block me, be the straw on the camels back.
Got enough scars, don't need more.
Just not feeling good.
But don't wanto hijack racers thread so I go now.
And so SORRY, just in case.
How bout that.
Muffly, muffled and whoever the hell else wants in on this.
Posted by Tamar on January 13, 2006, at 19:02:15
In reply to Re: Autoasterisking » Dinah, posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:33:52
Hey Muffled!
> ***That'd be the kid. But I always know what she's doing. I let her.
> But anyways, I wasn't hurting or offending anyone, its just f*rt. Not a bad word.
> Its even in my dictionary.Apparently the auto-asterisking comes from the Merriam Webster dictionary, in which (for some reason) f*rt is a big naughty word. Oddly, crap and bastard aren’t so bad. Go figure.
> "an expulsion of intestinal gas" ROFL!!!
> The auto asterisk is not perfect, it messes with words that are not even bad, so I didn't think it was a prob, just thot it funny. I NEED to laugh. If I don't laugh then everything will build up and it'll get ugly.Definitions of 'bad' are peculiar to this board. But yeah, we all need a laugh sometimes and I did laugh when I read your post!
> If Bob wants to teach me some petty lesson somehow over this, then I guess thats his perogative.
> Been a sh*tty week. Just pile it on.
> Block me, be the straw on the camels back.I’m thinking what you really mean is: “Sorry Dr Bob; didn’t mean to offend anyone; just going through a rough patch. I promise I won’t p*ss on your car.”
> Got enough scars, don't need more.
> Just not feeling good.(((((Muffled)))))
> But don't wanto hijack racers thread so I go now.
> And so SORRY, just in case.Yay!
> How bout that.
> Muffly, muffled and whoever the hell else wants in on this.
By the way, if you ever feel like venting with those expletives, just babblemail me. I’m planning to change my email addy to tamar_f*ckface@b*ggermeb*ckwards.com; until then just click the link.Love,
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on January 13, 2006, at 19:26:42
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
> This has turned into a very bad week. Today I'm mostly lying on the sofa, with a quilt over my head. I just want this to stop.
I am familiar with this mental terrain…
> Anyway, I'm still going over that whole "trauma" thing. Maybe part of the reason I object so strongly is that I hate to see myself as damaged, as pathetic, as incapable. Believe it or not, my image of myself is as someone who is Smart, Capable, Strong, Able, etc. Even during really bad spells like this one, that's still there for me: I still feel as though I *could* do just about anything. Of course, there's a heck of a lot of self-criticism because I don't get things done, since after all I could, but with the whole trauma thing, it turns that on its head. I start to feel as though that image of myself is delusional, that I'm actually pathetic and ineffectual, and that there's no reason to keep trying.
Is there a middle ground? I used to see myself as superhuman until I got diabetic and depressed. So my superpowers got taken away… that doesn’t make me weak or pathetic. I’m just a normal person now, but it’s OK.
Trauma is what occurs when bad things happen to good people. You didn’t deserve it and it didn’t mean you were weak. Suffering is not a sign of weakness. On the contrary; very often the people who suffer most are people with immense depth of character.
Accepting our limitations is very difficult but very necessary for our health. And those limitations aren’t always forever. Perhaps at the moment you aren’t well enough to do ‘just about anything’. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn’t be able to walk just now. But eventually, when you are better, your capabilities will return.
> Maybe that's part of what's going on? I don't know. Right now, I doubt my own insight into myself, so who can say how accurate that is?
>
> And then there's the just plain sick of it all part -- I start remembering all the ways that I've failed, all the bad things that have happened that I could have prevented, all the things I couldn't even begin to know how to handle. And then I feel as though there's no hope for me at all. A lot of that stuff goes back to my academic failure, which is a really hot button for me. I really am smart, and I know that I have Failed To Live Up To My Full Potential. I haven't ever managed to do anything with my intelligence, except be totally [anglo-saxon based verb deleted] up by life. And I think sometimes that if I hadn't been smart, none of this would have affected me so much.Er… correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t you been living with a serious illness during the time you were ‘failing to live up to your full potential’? Would you give anyone else as hard a time as you’re giving yourself? Being smart doesn’t make you immune to suffering. It doesn’t prevent people from getting a common cold, and it doesn’t prevent people from developing cancer, eating disorders, mental illness, addictions or anything else. And academic ‘failure’ is a temporary condition. You can always redeem yourself academically. As you’re smart, you can gain qualifications later in life. But you have to be well enough to handle the studying. I teach university and many of my students are mature students who didn’t get the opportunity to study as teenagers (often because of illness or disability). They tend to be the most motivated and most successful students. So don’t give up hope.
> And I feel like such a Pathetic Loser -- technical terminology there -- for not being Grown Up. I don't know entirely where that part is coming from, although there's some resonance from The Therapist From The Black Lagoon and The Agency From Hell there -- "you need to work harder, it's because you're not willing to work that you're feeling so bad..." You know, wanting someone to do it for me. That's a big bad one, too. I really do want to be able to go and put my head in someone's lap and be petted or held. I want someone to take care of me. I want, on those days that I can't even get out of bed, to have someone else cook breakfast, and maybe just sit with me. Or maybe to have someone bring me breakfast in bed. I want someone to help me with the things I find too hard, for whatever reason. And there's no one there, and I feel overwhelmed by it all.
Surely it’s OK to want someone to look after you? I don’t understand why that’s perceived as ‘bad’. We all want – and NEED – to be loved and cared for.
The only thing I’d say is: you’re being very hard on yourself. You’re expecting things of yourself that no one has the right to expect of you. When you are unwell, you are genuinely unwell. If you can’t work, that’s because you’re too unwell to work. That happens to people sometimes and it isn’t a moral weakness. Being able to accept your illness is a sign of inner strength. Acceptance is the first step to handling it. Maybe you don’t want to accept it (I don’t know; I only know that I find it hard to accept my own illness). And maybe you feel angry at yourself. I would suggest that the appropriate object of your anger is not yourself, but rather the experiences that have led to your illness.
I think you have good reasons to be angry. Don’t turn it against yourself; direct it at the people/situations/circumstances that actually deserve it.
Just my two cents.
Tamar
Posted by 10derHeart on January 13, 2006, at 22:44:56
In reply to Re: Autoasterisking » muffled, posted by Tamar on January 13, 2006, at 19:02:15
>> tamar_f*ckface@b*ggermeb*ckwards.com; <<
why...that sound was me....
roflmao.....for the first time in ages!
oh oh that is so damn funny!! thank you for that
Now I have to challenge myself to come up with one, too. Impossible to top that addy, though.
Unless.....I let the *real* dark and wild side of 10der out for a minute...hmmm....
Posted by muffled on January 14, 2006, at 1:32:32
In reply to Tamar!! ha ha ha » Tamar, posted by 10derHeart on January 13, 2006, at 22:44:56
Posted by Poet on January 14, 2006, at 11:31:04
In reply to More of the same., posted by Racer on January 12, 2006, at 14:57:31
Hi Racer,
It's good thing there isn't a TV reality show *The Biggest Failure* or you and I and too many other posters would be competing for a title we really don't deserve. Well, I do, but the rest of you don't.
I've told my T countless times that realizing I am actually intelligent and not stupid has not made me less of a failure. If anything it's made me feel worse about myself. If I'm so damn smart why am I such a failure?
What we need is a giant self awareness quilt that all of us can hide under and not come out until we've collectively figured out why such smart people think such dumb things about ourselves.
I wish I had answers. I'd gladly burn you breakfast and bring it to you in bed if I could. I'd do what I could to bring you some relief from beating yourself up.
Move over, I'm getting under that quilt.
Poet
Posted by Racer on January 14, 2006, at 12:30:22
In reply to Re: More of the same. » Racer, posted by Poet on January 14, 2006, at 11:31:04
>It's good thing there isn't a TV reality show *The Biggest Failure* or you and I and too many other posters would be competing for a title we really don't deserve. Well, I do, but the rest of you don't.
How about we share that title, you and me? Because I *will not* give it to you. You don't deserve it, anymore than anyone else here.
We all just think we do. None of us do.
My mother used to say that the unexamined life was not worth living, but I think that's trite. I think that we live lives we *must* examine, in order to survive them, and it's that examination that makes us feel like failures. If our lives had been such that we could simply have lived them, we probably would never have explored whether or not we were successful in them.
Mind you, I still have a lot of the Bad Stuff goinhg on, but I hate thinking that there's a Failed Poet out there. In my view -- which is right, on accounta I'm so smart -- there's only a hurt and frightened Poet, who can't quite -- yet -- recognize that it's not a failure to be hurt or frightened.
Be well, Poet. You're hella successful in my book, just for continuing to try. (And for liking "The Horn Blows At Midnight.")
Posted by daisym on January 14, 2006, at 20:11:38
In reply to Re: More of the same. » Racer, posted by Tamar on January 13, 2006, at 19:26:42
Perhaps a huge part of the problem is that the world at large doesn't really see depression as an illness but rather as a "weakness" of character or self-indulgent wallowing.
I would say that most of us don't see it that way in other people but we have a hard time not seeing it that way in ourselves.
The other "problem" with being smart is that we recognize what we are doing and yet can't seem to stop ourselves or change ourselves or whatever. It totallys s*cks to be able to read everything, to find yourself in books and yet still not cure yourself. *sigh*
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 15, 2006, at 0:58:16
In reply to f*rt,fartish, superfart, f*rting, fartfart. Hmmmmm (nm), posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:12:38
> Re: f*rt,f[*]rtish, superf[*]rt, f*rting, f[*]rtf[*]rt. Hm
Please don't use language that could offend others. Sorry, but I'm going to block you from posting for another week.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by happyflower on January 15, 2006, at 7:23:51
In reply to Re: blocked for week » muffled, posted by Dr. Bob on January 15, 2006, at 0:58:16
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.