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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 23:08:04
In reply to Reducing participation in babble, posted by pinkeye on March 5, 2005, at 16:45:24
I'm glad you'll still be around. :) It makes sense to limit your participation to a level that is good for you healthwise, mental and emotional, and that allows you to do real life stuff too. Babble is capable of sucking me in sometimes, and I have to step back.
Posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 11:25:06
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Daisym on March 5, 2005, at 18:12:19
> Take good care of yourself and pop back occasionally. It seems to be a very good thing for you to do, especially given the physical condition.
>
> Hugs from me,
> Daisy
>
Thanks Daisy.. especially for the hugs :-). I think I shall find the right balance. And I will be fine. For all I know, I might end up checking this board almost everyday.. it is little addictive :-)
Posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 11:27:54
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 23:08:04
> I'm glad you'll still be around. :) It makes sense to limit your participation to a level that is good for you healthwise, mental and emotional, and that allows you to do real life stuff too. Babble is capable of sucking me in sometimes, and I have to step back.
Yeah I will still be around.. just maybe not post as much as I did.. It feels like a huge responsibility to post constantly and be careful with what you say. Especially when I am with persons who suffer so much themselves, and I don't want to add misery by a careless word. And I somehow end up feeling personally responsible for what the posters go through - espeically if it is someone I have responded to and who has responded to me.
I shall be around and most likely will check the board almost everyday.. and post if I got some insight which would help.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 6, 2005, at 19:14:37
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 11:27:54
((((pinkeye))))
I go through periods like that.
Just always seems like I say the wrong thing.
Sometimes find other peoples pain too hard to cope with.
Sometimes it can be good to back off for a bit.
But hang around.
Post when you want.
Good luck finding balance,
It is something of my lifelong ambition :-)But don't become a stranger or we will miss ya!
Posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 21:19:45
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on March 6, 2005, at 19:14:37
Sure will be around :-). Thanks.
Posted by Susan47 on March 7, 2005, at 12:14:52
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 21:19:45
I, for one, certainly hope so, pinkeye, I like you.
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 13:59:29
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble, posted by Susan47 on March 7, 2005, at 12:14:52
> I, for one, certainly hope so, pinkeye, I like you.
Sure will hang around. If I find something useful to say, I will post.
Posted by Shortelise on March 7, 2005, at 16:51:29
In reply to Reducing participation in babble, posted by pinkeye on March 5, 2005, at 16:45:24
Pink, I sure get this.
You say you'll have to find another way to help people. It's interesting - I come here for help, not to give it. Other's methods of seeing, thinking, dealing with their own caca gives me insight into my own.
Thanks for writing about this, and I sure do understand the need to back off. I seem not to know to do this until I am already in overload - I smell the smoke coming out of my ears, and think, oh, right, gee... time to rest.
Take care.
Hugs, warm, stress-free ones!
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:10:31
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 13:59:29
Don't forget to ask when you need help as well. :)
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 18:17:17
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Shortelise on March 7, 2005, at 16:51:29
I come here for both helping and getting help :-)
Sometimes more of the one than the other.>
> Hugs, warm, stress-free ones!
>
> ShortE
>
>
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 18:19:32
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:10:31
> Don't forget to ask when you need help as well. :)
Of course not. I do that whenever I need help.
Lately, I am finding helping others is actually better for me to overcome my own issues rather than try to get help on my issues.
I know it doesn't make too much sense, but it seems to work that way for me now.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 7, 2005, at 21:39:15
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 18:19:32
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense to me.
It's like teaching, really. Have you ever noticed that a lot of learning takes place when you teach another person? Not always the pure subject matter (because we'd tend to already know it, that's why we're teaching) but some new part of it, or how true or correct it is, or even in something they say back to us as they try to learn, we realize another aspect...
To me helping, teaching, empathizing, they all blend together to create a real two-way street.
So it does make sense to me. Very much so. I find the more I help here, the more I'm helped indirectly, and in surprising and unique ways I never expected.
But I won't hesitate to ask directly, either. Just seem to need to less and less - right now.
Glad you're still around - just as much as you feel good about :-)
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:00:58
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on March 7, 2005, at 21:39:15
Yeah I guess I will always hang around. It helps me too. Only I don't read all the posts. I try to skim the subject and open and read the first couple of lines. If it looks too much of a trigger, I close without going on further.
Yeah what you have written makes sense. I think I also said that in some other post here before. Real learning does come from teaching and helping others.
There are lots of stuff I do realize from what other people go through and trying to solve the problem. Only I wish it were little less emotionally taxing.
Thanks 10derheart.
> On the contrary, it makes perfect sense to me.
>
> It's like teaching, really. Have you ever noticed that a lot of learning takes place when you teach another person? Not always the pure subject matter (because we'd tend to already know it, that's why we're teaching) but some new part of it, or how true or correct it is, or even in something they say back to us as they try to learn, we realize another aspect...
>
> To me helping, teaching, empathizing, they all blend together to create a real two-way street.
>
> So it does make sense to me. Very much so. I find the more I help here, the more I'm helped indirectly, and in surprising and unique ways I never expected.
>
> But I won't hesitate to ask directly, either. Just seem to need to less and less - right now.
>
> Glad you're still around - just as much as you feel good about :-)
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:14:24
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » 10derHeart, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:00:58
At the risk of being CBT'ish, there is a way to reduce the emotional tax. If you fully and completely recognize that you are powerless on Babble, that in the end people's lives are theirs, not yours, it becomes a lot easier. It requires really extreme acceptance though. And it's hard to accept our powerlessness.
Which isn't to say that we can't be helpful. Just that we can't really fix other people or their lives. That they are going to be in pain, and we won't be able to stop it.
Which is not as utterly depressing as it sounds.
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:19:31
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:14:24
Well, then what am I doing here anyway? If I am so powerless?
I guess this must be the realisation that my ex Therapist had .. that was why he retired within 2 years of practice :-). Of course he had other commitments, but I think the real reason is somewhat the frustration that he experienced - at not being able to help people as much as he wished. And the inability to see the suffering of other people.
You know what, the more I participate here, the more I am realizing exactly what my therapist would have felt.
> At the risk of being CBT'ish, there is a way to reduce the emotional tax. If you fully and completely recognize that you are powerless on Babble, that in the end people's lives are theirs, not yours, it becomes a lot easier. It requires really extreme acceptance though. And it's hard to accept our powerlessness.
>
> Which isn't to say that we can't be helpful. Just that we can't really fix other people or their lives. That they are going to be in pain, and we won't be able to stop it.
>
> Which is not as utterly depressing as it sounds.
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:24:15
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:14:24
Actually that brings a good point. Only when people just do therapy as a profession, I think they will be successful and will be able to last long.
If they are in the profession trying to help out people and care about people, I think they are bound to feel more strained. I think my ex T did that and that is why he couldn't take it too much. He chose the profession only for the sole reason of helping people - not even a little bit for having a profession or making money. That is probably why he felt more frustrated than other therapists.
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:28:20
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:19:31
Hmmm... I think there's a difference between what I meant and what you heard. It is possible to be helpful on Babble. Although it might be a slight problem to you if that's your main goal here, because you'll be doomed to frustration. Many of us aren't all that easy to help, not quickly at least. Just ask my poor therapist.
I mean it in a global sense. Admitting powerlessness is actually very freeing. It doesn't have to do with feeling hopeless or anything like that. It's a relinquishment of the desire for control. Especially for the desire for control over things that we do not really have the ability to control anyway.
Like... Man can build good buildings and roads that can withstand hurricanes better than any buildings and roads have ever done. And that's a terrific goal. But in the end, a direct hit from a powerful storm is out of our control. It's out of our power.
So it's more like the Serenity Prayer, perhaps?
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:33:46
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:24:15
Many therapists do, Pinkeye. After all, the money's not great. One of my cousins is a therapist, his brother a blue collar worker. Guess which one earns more. :) I can make a reasonably good estimate of my therapist's income after expenses, and he's not going to be buying a mansion soon.
Some go into it for the power, I guess. And some just find it interesting. But many are in it because they want to help people. The ones who stay in it are the ones that can find the boundaries to know what is theirs and what is the clients'. And to accept that they can only control what is theirs.
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:34:34
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:28:20
I see what you are saying. But I think it is kind of hard to understand and live by.
Especially for this kind of emotionally taxing efforts - I guess people like to see little bit of result. I would understand that about building things, roads etc.. You don't get emotionally taxed.
That actually reminds me of the reason why I stayed away from medical profession initially. I thoguht I couldn't listen to people's griefs all the time. That was why I chose not to become a doctor myself.
I have to leave now Dinah. Shall write more tomorrow. Thanks for helping me see things little differently.
Posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:38:40
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:28:20
What you are saying does make a lot of sense. I wonder though, even after a million years of training, if I will ever be able to reach that level of indifference and acceptance of letting go of things you cannot control and change.
I am not a control freak, but this seems to be quite a hard thing to do.
I do agree lot of therapists are in it for helping. And they genuinely do care. But only when you choose the profession solely for helping and for no other reason, I guess the burning out rate might be higher.
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:42:42
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 7, 2005, at 22:38:40
It may look like indifference, but I don't think it really is.
I suppose Dr. Bob wouldn't comment on whether he understood what I was saying. :)
Now go home, Pinkeye, and get some rest. I'll talk to you later.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 3:14:24
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:14:24
I think it is important to recognise that we can't MAKE people change. We can't STOP people going round and round. We can't MAKE people stop beating up on themselves.
But we can accept them just as they are.
Let them vent
Let them rail
Let them be
And not judge them.In the words of Linehan: 'Acceptance IS change'.
And it is.
Especially if one has never really been accepted before.
But not acceptance for the sake of change.
Just acceptance for its intrinsic value.
For its own sake.Sh*t happens in peoples lives and there is nothing we can do to change that.
But if we are always trying to change people then we give them the implicit message:
'you have to change to be acceptable'
But that is bollocks
(cognitive error #1 of CBT);-)
Posted by fallsfall on March 8, 2005, at 7:55:02
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 3:14:24
'you have to change to be acceptable'
This is what I'm feeling these days. I'll start a new thread below. Thanks for bringing this up.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2005, at 7:55:10
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 22:42:42
> I suppose Dr. Bob wouldn't comment on whether he understood what I was saying. :)
Right, as usual... :-)
Bob
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2005, at 8:40:16
In reply to Re: Reducing participation in babble, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2005, at 7:55:10
This is the end of the thread.
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