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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
In reply to For vs. About, posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2005, at 8:07:01
As a nurse I look at my patients and I did what was needed to care for their illness and what was ordered by the Dr. However, since their hospital stays were so short I didn't develope a relationship enough to care about them. I think my T keeps a distance that he is willing to care for me but doesn't get close enough to care about me. I hope this makes sense! I know it does sound like semantics but it is totally different in my mind.
Posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
See -- I read is as
"Care For" -- have feelings for you"Care About" -- want what is best for you and care what happens to you.
Weird how we all hear different things.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 11:09:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
My therapist seems to use them interchangeably. I think he uses "about" more often. He says it means more or less the same thing I mean when I say I love him. Feeling attached.
Posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
I thought you meant his name was Dr. However :)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 14:39:23
In reply to Sorry to digress... :) » Speaker, posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
I love it!!! Actually, I think it's Dr. Whatever :) at times :). Thanks for the smile!
Posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
I want to be cared *for* and cared *about* and all the other prepositions. I want it all!!!!!
(I can be such a brat:)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
I agree but I don't think it's being a brat. I think in order to really work on the tough stuff we need to be cared for and about. That is why I am questioning my T's ability to help me. I feel he keeps such a distance that he doesn't care about me but feels his job is to care for me though "the process".
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
I felt like that for a long time, and I'm to this day not sure whether it was my stuff or his stuff that made me feel that way.
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 16:16:53
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
I usually take responsibility in all relationships but for some reason I think they are trained to listen so he should understand.
I have been wondering how work is going for you this week?
Marie
Posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:50
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
Maybe these are distinctions without differences. In order to "care for" the client, the therapist needs to figure out what the client's needs are and how they can be met.
What bothers me about your situation, is that regardless of whether he was justified in thinking that he didn't have to call you back, you've now told him how bad that made you feel, and I haven't heard that he's apologized at all for hurting you, even if it was entirely inadvertent. It all sounds pretty defensive. What I used to really hate was when my T would pass off any angry reactions I had to her as transference at work, as if that somehow absolved her of any responsibility. She'll still sometimes point out to me that something she did hurt me because it replayed some long ago hurt, and she'll sometimes defend whatever it was that she did, but she'll also express remorse that she didn't pick up on what I needed. At least she's acknowledging my hurt and its validity.
Has your therapist done anything here other than explain why he didn't think he had to call?
Mair
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:50
Mair,
Absolutely no remorse or apology! He actually wondered why I wasn't talking much...I was totally shocked. I am really considering what I need to do here as I can't work if I don't feel like he is truely there for me. I will give it a few more sessions to see if it is just a phase that will pass or an unpassable juncture that needs to go in a different direction. Thanks for keeping up with me, I really appreciate it :).
Marie
Posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 18:10:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About » mair, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
I know you have some csa issues to work on. Have you told any of the stories yet? I'm wondering if you have, how it felt. I hope I'm not over stepping but I don't know how I could tell these really personal things to someone if they cared more about the process (how I told), not about what I told and what I was feeling. It wouldn't feel safe to me otherwise. I don't know if I'm making sense.
I hope you can work this out.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:13:37
In reply to Re: For vs. About » mair, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 17:47:33
To tell you the truth, although I'm glad now that I stuck it out with my therapist, I'm not altogether sure it was the best decision.
I *like* that he's not overly empathetic, but...
At any rate, he'd have probably responded the way your therapist did a long time ago. But he's grown a lot since then, and would now undoubtedly be more attuned. If he hadn't changed I know it wouldn't have been right to stay with him. And as it was, we spent years on the relationship rather than my issues.
Transference or no, you should be able to trust your gut on leaving or staying.
Work is better than last week, nowhere near what it should be.
I don't know what to do.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:39:33
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:13:37
It did take an awfully long time to build a relationship. Upwards of five years. And that was partly, but not entirely, my fault. It does seem that finding a therapist you could bond with earlier might be more cost effective.
But in his own way, my therapist can be very warm. I called him first thing this morning, because it had occurred to me overnight that the reason he may have been frustrated yesterday is that I'm burning him out. He's pretty much singlehandedly (IRL) had to worry about me and deal with my despair. It keeps coming back, and maybe he was wearing out from it. So I called and left a message asking him if he was getting worn out from my constant intense sadness. I let him know that I didn't need or expect a return call, that we could talk about it tomorrow.
He called back not too long after. I reminded him that he didn't need to call, and he answered very gently (for him anyway) that he knew he didn't need to but he wanted to anyway. And he assured me that he was one person in my life who was not going to get worn out from my feelings. That I could feel sad for as long as I needed to.
It was another of the really nice things he's done lately.
Posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 19:59:01
In reply to That really wasn't fair of me, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:39:33
I'm glad you called and asked, and I am glad he reassured you. Sounds like he did and said the right thing by returning your call.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 20:14:24
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 19:59:01
It was nice of him. He's like that occasionally - not often by any means.
I would have been fine with him not calling. I mostly wanted to give him a chance to think about it before tomorrow's session, and evaluate if it was starting to be a problem for him.
He's been way nicer in general lately. I wonder if a death in the very immediate family is the key to something for him. Like I deserve kindness now or something. I don't remember him being like this when my best (human) friend died. And not when my dog died either.
But maybe that's not fair either. Maybe something about the way I handled my father's illness or death stirred something in him and deepened our relationship. Or maybe not.
Only time will tell I guess.
Posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 20:51:43
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 20:14:24
Maybe he's moved by the very obvious amount of pain you're in.
Maybe the empathy has been there for awhile but you haven't been able to absorb it.
Maybe you're accepting that he really does care for and about you.
Maybe he's just responding in an appropriately professional and competent way to your current circumstances.
Whatever - accept that he's willing to be your support right now and use it as much as you can.
It sounds like the best way for you to take care of yourself now.
(((dinah)))
mair
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 22:34:16
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 18:10:08
I have told him of general stories...but no intense details. I know that would bring up a lot of feelings that I can't contain and that is where I would want him to care about me. In fact when that happens he doesn't even know how to care for me. This is the delima I feel...I'm not sure I can move forward unless I can trust him with my intense feelings and respond to them. I have always been emotionally in control and it is very hard for me to be observed and not cared about. Maybe it's just my issue!
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 22:38:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 19:13:37
Dinah,
I'm glad your T called you back...he might have been slow but he is a keeper.
I'm also glad your work is better this week. However, I think you expect a lot of yourself. I know after my husband died it was months before I could even begin to concentrate. Grief for me was like a wave...at times it would knock me over and other times it just came up to my knees. The thing is I never knew when or where to expect what. Please be as kind to yourself as you are to all of us :).
Marie
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 14:50:38
In reply to Re: For vs. About » daisym, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 22:34:16
I don't think that's your issue. That would seem to be human nature. It's hard enough to open up as it is.
How long have you been seeing him? How often have you addressed this with him? It's a sad truth that not every therapist is for every client.
And even before my therapist and I established a good relationship after five years, I knew it was worth sticking out because he offered me something I had never felt elsewhere. He radiates a calmness even when he's angry or annoyed. And I drank that calmness up like I hadn't had a drink in my life, which I don't think I have. The people in my life do not radiate calmness.
Does your therapist offer something that you need, that makes it worth working on a relationship?
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 14:56:35
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » Dinah, posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 20:51:43
That part of the mystery solved at least. I asked him.
He thinks that people who are grieving deserve to be cut some slack, and he knows that most of the people in my life don't really grasp that (bosses especially) and he wants to be one person who does. Because he had people in his life who did it for him.
I guess that means same old same old afterwards. :)
Posted by mair on February 25, 2005, at 17:47:53
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » mair, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 14:56:35
Dinah - I want to know how you elicited this from him. The "why are you being so nice to me" question implies that he isn't always. I'm sure you said it more diplomatically.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 17:55:05
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me, posted by mair on February 25, 2005, at 17:47:53
rofl
Well...
Actually I didn't say it much more tactfully, because he started laughing when I asked. I then told him that of course I didn't mean he wasn't usually nice. And he said he knew what I meant.
I don't think it's that I was tactful as much as it is that our relationship is at the point where occasional lack of tact can be a point of shared laughter. On my part too, unless I stew about it rather then talk about it. If I don't think about what he's said until after I've left, I can totally blow it out of proportion.
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 17:56:39
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me » mair, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 17:55:05
As an example that it works both ways, see the last sentence in
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050225/msgs/463315.html
Posted by mair on February 25, 2005, at 21:49:48
In reply to Re: That really wasn't fair of me - Mair, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 17:56:39
I loved the quote. Did you ever see the movie Ordinary People? There's a quote in the movie that's always been sort of a private joke between my husband and me. The husband and wife who are definitely headed in the direction of a divorce are talking. The husband asks the wife "do you love me?" She's rather emotionally restrained to say the least. Her response is "as much as always."
I think it's sort of in the same vein.
Whether your T is going out of his way to be nice to you or not, it seems pretty clear that the 2 of you are quite comfortable with one another right now. Just let him be the support you need.
Mair
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